Haitian Arrested in Sosúa Beach Caught on Tape

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Yourmaninvegas

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so were Haitians. As I said to Kipling, it is mainly the numbers of Haitians and the load they place on the Dominican medical, education, and social systems that is the main problem. There all sorts of others' problems thousands of squatters bring as well. Venezuelans are a drop in the bucket, and most of them had proper paperwork and ID to get legalized.
:rolleyes:
There are also historical reasons for helping Venezuelans and historical reasons for distrusting Haitians.
Historical...as in the past...as in the people of the present need to pay for things and to have a score settled against them for things that they did not do in the past.
Not picking an argument.
Not even saying I am in disagreement.
Just pointing out something I see in your post...
I'm interested if anyone else finds it strange that history on the macro scale is any justification for conducting policy against people individually on the micro scale❓
 

bob saunders

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:rolleyes:

Historical...as in the past...as in the people of the present need to pay for things and to have a score settled against them for things that they did not do in the past.
Not picking an argument.
Not even saying I am in disagreement.
Just pointing out something I see in your post...
I'm interested if anyone else finds it strange that history on the macro scale is any justification for conducting policy against people individually on the micro scale❓
Haitians have shown a strong dislike for Dominicans and on social media often mention that the whole island belongs to them. Based on their history of occupation, four attempted occupations of the DR, and associated rape and pillage there is a strong distrust that is still valid. Nothing to do with settling a score but everything to do with protecting your own country.
 
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MariaRubia

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so were Haitians. As I said to Kipling, it is mainly the numbers of Haitians and the load they place on the Dominican medical, education, and social systems that is the main problem. There all sorts of others' problems thousands of squatters bring as well. Venezuelans are a drop in the bucket, and most of them had proper paperwork and ID to get legalized. There are also historical reasons for helping Venezuelans and historical reasons for distrusting Haitians.

In truth I think the Venezuelan situation has definitely changed with the current government. They now need a visa before they board the flight and this is checked on arrival. It's way harder for them (and indeed anyone else) to come in as we are on an island and the only means of access is on a plane or a ferry, and your visa will be checked before you board. It's only Haitians who can drift across the border, so they are bound to be the biggest problem.

In addition, I do think colour has something to do with this. Dominicans generally see colour as equivalent to class. I've heard people stop their kids from playing in the sun because - it was claimed - their skin will go dark and they will look poor. Venezuelans are generally light skinned, Haitians are generally dark.
 

johne

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In addition, I do think colour has something to do with this. Dominicans generally see colour as equivalent to class. I've heard people stop their kids from playing in the sun because - it was claimed - their skin will go dark and they will look poor. Venezuelans are generally light skinned, Haitians are generally dark.
I see it time and time again when the "elite" from SD come out to the beach in JD. The kids are very reluctant to play with dark skinned Dominican children. It breaks my heart and my dislike for the elite grows everytime I see that happen.
Oh, BTW...those nannies that they have, ((one for each child lol) I haven't noticed many light skinned nannies lately, like in NEVER. I feel for the nannies in this position but "everybody needs to eat"
 

bachata

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:rolleyes:

Historical...as in the past...
I'm interested if anyone else finds it strange that history on the macro scale is any justification for conducting policy against people individually on the micro scale❓
Yes, when I went to elementary school I learned all the horrible things Haitian have done to my people and the DR.
That Haitian mentality of one day apropiarse of DR territory have never been forgotten.

In the other side I see Venezuela like Brothers, same blood.
My family have historical ties in Venezuela as two brothers left Spain in the 1800 one for DR and the other one settled in Venezuela.

JJ
 

drstock

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Venezuelans are a drop in the bucket, and most of them had proper paperwork and ID to get legalized.
My Haitian gardener, who has worked for me for twelve years and lived here longer than I have, is a great guy, honest and hardworking. He has tried so hard, so many times to get legalized over the years - I know because I have helped him with loans and time off to get it done. The "Regularizacion" process a few years ago was particularly time/money consuming and pointless. Thoe who were granted regularizion and those who weren't seemed to be completely random. His own brother was successful and he was not, despite both being equally qualified. Having the "appropriate paperwork and ID" have been of no benefit to him.

He is currently in the process of trying again and has paid a lawyer a considerable amount this time, but the whole thing has ground to a halt for months.
 

bob saunders

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My Haitian gardener, who has worked for me for twelve years and lived here longer than I have, is a great guy, honest and hardworking. He has tried so hard, so many times to get legalized over the years - I know because I have helped him with loans and time off to get it done. The "Regularizacion" process a few years ago was particularly time/money consuming and pointless. Thoe who were granted regularizion and those who weren't seemed to be completely random. His own brother was successful and he was not, despite both being equally qualified. Having the "appropriate paperwork and ID" have been of no benefit to him.

He is currently in the process of trying again and has paid a lawyer a considerable amount this time, but the whole thing has ground to a halt for months.
The Dominican government isn't known for its efficiency. It took me 4 trips to Santo Domingo to get my Dominican passport done, even though I gave them everything they asked for the first time. There were eleven Haitians receiving Dominican citizenship the same day as me, so obviously many are able to get the proper paperwork and get processed. All our Haitian students have parents that have Haitian passports and either Dominican residency or work Visas. A number of the DR1 community say they don't go for residency because the process is too difficult. Dominicans sometimes wait for decades to get their American Visa or residency, so it is normal to have to wait and it also seems pretty arbitrary who gets a US Visa and who doesn't. Same thing seems to apply to the Dominican Immigration system.
 
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NALs

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The Dominican government isn't known for its efficiency. It took me 4 trips to Santo Domingo to get my Dominican passport done, even though I gave them everything they asked for the first time. There were eleven Haitians receiving Dominican citizenship the same day as me, so obviously many are able to get the proper paperwork and get processed. All our Haitian students have parents that have Haitian passports and either Dominican residency or work Visas. A number of the DR1 community say they don't go for residency because the process is too difficult. Dominicans sometimes wait for decades to get their American Visa or residency, so it is normal to have to wait and it also seems pretty arbitrary who gets a US Visa and who doesn't. Same thing seems to apply to the Dominican Immigration system.
Many times who gets a US visa or not depends on how the consul is feeling that day. Dominican immigration lawyers has been repeating that ad nauseum on Dominican TV. Being rejected for a US visa isn't always indicative of missing documents or not qualifying for one. Sometimes upon seeing you the guy doesn't like you for no reason other thsn he doesn't and if that happens, chances are you're not getting a visa.
 
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Kricke87

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https://do.usembassy.gov/alert-ongo...krHZlkSSFcfRCw1I0t2PZrWPh7cnqa7jhJzrjxRATvj2Q - I found this alert from the US embassy a bit interesting. Because isn't that the "REAL" issue, because of course, you can argue that it might be "morally" wrong to send back people that are only trying to survive, from hellish conditions. Still, every country has the right to accept or refuse anyone into their country. But the "issue" that has been pointed out MANY times in this thread already is that it doesn't matter if you are Haitian and living here illegally or not, it's just enough if you look like you are Haitian you will be questioned. And if the person questioning you don't believe that your documents are real or not they will detain you, JUST BECAUSE OF HOW YOU LOOK. That in my world is called racism.
 

Kricke87

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I know a lot of Dominicans, and I don't know one that hates Haitians. I think you are being deliberately obtuse. It is all about the history of Haitian invasion and the current massive overflow of Haitians that think it is their right to come to the DR. NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS.
Good for you, just because you don't know anyone who hates Haitians, doesn't mean that it's not widespread...
I know MANY Dominicans who have a real distaste for Haitians.
 

NanSanPedro

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I remember having a conversation with an older Haitian pastor in San Pedro a few years ago. I asked him about Haitian-Dominican animosity which I had heard of but never seen. He told me that you won't see it in the churches but will see it outside of the churches. So far, that's been my experience, although I really don't see it all that much in general, except of course from the police.
 

bob saunders

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I remember having a conversation with an older Haitian pastor in San Pedro a few years ago. I asked him about Haitian-Dominican animosity which I had heard of but never seen. He told me that you won't see it in the churches but will see it outside of the churches. So far, that's been my experience, although I really don't see it all that much in general, except of course from the police.
How about Haitian distaste/dislike of Dominicans. A Haitian I know told me most Haitians dont like Dominicans.
 

cavok

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I remember having a conversation with an older Haitian pastor in San Pedro a few years ago. I asked him about Haitian-Dominican animosity which I had heard of but never seen. He told me that you won't see it in the churches but will see it outside of the churches. So far, that's been my experience, although I really don't see it all that much in general, except of course from the police.
I agree. I think this narrative of hatred of Haitians by Dominicans is way overblown. There are a lot of Haitians in the barrios here in Cabarete living together peacefully with the Dominicans. I've never heard of any hate crimes here and don't know any Dominicans that hate Haitians. This is a narrative by certain groups with an ulterior motive.
 

NanSanPedro

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How about Haitian distaste/dislike of Dominicans. A Haitian I know told me most Haitians dont like Dominicans.
From where I sit, it's only a response to the way they perceive they are treated. They don't understand why they just can't come here to work and when the govt enforces the laws, they react very negatively to the Dominican govt. But I've yet to hear from those I talk to "I hate all Dominicans" or something in that vein. I'm sure it exists, but not that I can see.
 

malko

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I agree. I think this narrative of hatred of Haitians by Dominicans is way overblown. There are a lot of Haitians in the barrios here in Cabarete living together peacefully with the Dominicans. I've never heard of any hate crimes here and don't know any Dominicans that hate Haitians. This is a narrative by certain groups with an ulterior motive.

I disagree.

A whole lot of Dominicans I interact with daily dislike haitians. They say it openly, and usually for reasons that you would stop believing in when you turn 12. They eat cats, practice black magic, are fundamentally evil, etc ......

The funny thing is it doesn't seem to apply to the haitians THEY interact with. Maids, finca workers...... And they get on just fine with them
 

cavok

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I disagree.

A whole lot of Dominicans I interact with daily dislike haitians. They say it openly, and usually for reasons that you would stop believing in when you turn 12. They eat cats, practice black magic, are fundamentally evil, etc ......

The funny thing is it doesn't seem to apply to the haitians THEY interact with. Maids, finca workers...... And they get on just fine with them
At least we've gone from hatred to dislike. Dominicans(some) in the barrios eat cats, too and I've had several Dominicans tell me that.

I'm still waiting for a citizen of African descent to be arrested in Sosua. There are a lot of them there. If this is such a big problem, we should have heard about at least one report by now. Like I said - overblown.
 

Kipling333

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Well today throughout the Christian World it is Christ The King day who reigns with justice and fairness regardless of nationality or colour or any other divisive factor and I can pray that we can , even in small steps ,come more to this perfection in this earthly world.
 
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