Haitians in PC/Bavaro

bob saunders

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Or a way developed and implemented to give them legal status.

You did say that you don't have a problem with legal Haitians, right?
Do you think there should be a quota on how many illegal immigrants should be given legal status and there should be some qualifications on deciding who gets legal status, or are you suggesting a blanket amnesty that will encourage a surge.
 

MoJoInDR

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Do you think there should be a quota on how many illegal immigrants should be given legal status and there should be some qualifications on deciding who gets legal status, or are you suggesting a blanket amnesty that will encourage a surge.
First... Sadly, your suggestion that I would encourage "...a surge..." exposes your continued ad hominem effort to malign me... And further confirms your offended feelings.

Try and get over them, Bob.

Second... I think that the way to deal with the matter is in small bites...
  • Put dealing with local immigration issues on one of the front burners...
  • Begin a dialogue with businesses that hire immigrant workers, regarding the institution of proper, stringently applied immigration worker laws, and their compliance with it all, so that they clearly understand that their relationship to the government, laws, and immigrant workers is being considered and dealt with in a way that works for all involved...
  • At the same time, strengthen border control, eradicate the corruption within it...
  • Put a moratorium on deportations...
  • Form a human outreach agency with an active PR department, with the mission of giving the immigrant community in the DR some confidence that their situation is being handled in a proper, humanitarian manner, with the goal of finding a positive environment in and through which the matter of immigrant workers can be handled.
  • Seek international support for all of the above... Even financial support... By presenting DR's effort to afford Haitians (and other immigrants) aid in their time of need... And this could include the health resources for pregnant Haitian women.
Right now it seems that the DR government is all over the place with the immigrant worker matter, and it looks like the situation is even out of the government's control, given the reports of rape and theft that is taking place... Along with the illegal hiring of immigrant workers.

There is a possibility for the DR government to gain cookie points with the international community with its handling — proper handling — of this immigrant worker problem. Perhaps the DR government should look at it as an opportunity to shine on the international forum.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, Bob.
 

Aguaita29

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There is a possibility for the DR government to gain cookie points with the international community with its handling — proper handling — of this immigrant worker problem. Perhaps the DR government should look at it as an opportunity to shine on the international forum.
I think there is the problem: to try to please the international community. For instance, a couple of years ago I read ¨El Protocolo de la Miel y la Frontera Dominico-Haitiana", which explains how Trujillo gave away hundreds of Kilometers of Dominican territory to Haiti, and there was even pressure from the U.S. involved. Also I heard that with the Regularization plan they approved lots of Haitians who didn´t qualify , just to please the international community. So, I think the DR first needs to do what is right for the DR. You can´t please everyone. The DR needs to grow some balls!
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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What a silly thing to say... Brazil is like halfway around the world for Haitians... DR is next door.
Chile too had a large and quick increase of Haitian migrants. In a very short time Santiago de Chile went from basically having no Haitians to the point Haitians in Chile now have certain stereotypes such as entire families living in abandoned buildings. What is actually silly is that it seems you’re completely unaware of this.

Regarding DR business owners' disposition toward Haitian workers... They are running businesses for their own profit... And will do whatever, meaning they will have whatever disposition toward the workers they need to have in order to maintain their profit-making business.

Not saying they quietly hate Haitians... But are they fighting for the well-being of these Haitians that they are using to help them make their profits?
You really like that and completely turn a blind eye to the fact that most Dominican business owners don’t hire Haitians. What’s next? That expats are enslavist for hiring Haitians, especially considering that on average areas with more expats than typical do have a higher presence of Haitians. Just look at this forum and how important Haitians are here. Part of that is obvious, many have Haitian gilfriends/wives and/or kid or two with a Haitian woman. This is not quite how it’s where Dominicans dominate. In fact, the element of having Haitians in the extended family which is a much greater prevalance among expats is not very common among Dominicans.

Haitian business owners in depend much more on Haitians than Dominicans do. Yet, wages in Haiti are among the lowest in the hemisphere and in general, the quality of life in Haiti is also among the worst. Haiti even has one of the lowest life expectancy in the hemisphere, a greater part of its population living in poverty and extreme poverty, etc. This was since before the current security situation. :unsure:
 

aarhus

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Chile too had a large and quick increase of Haitian migrants. In a very short time Santiago de Chile went from basically having no Haitians to the point Haitians in Chile now have certain stereotypes such as entire families living in abandoned buildings. What is actually silly is that it seems you’re completely unaware of this.


You really like that and completely turn a blind eye to the fact that most Dominican business owners don’t hire Haitians. What’s next? That expats are enslavist for hiring Haitians, especially considering that on average areas with more expats than typical do have a higher presence of Haitians. Just look at this forum and how important Haitians are here. Part of that is obvious, many have Haitian gilfriends/wives and/or kid or two with a Haitian woman. This is not quite how it’s where Dominicans dominate. In fact, the element of having Haitians in the extended family which is a much greater prevalance among expats is not very common among Dominicans.

Haitian business owners in depend much more on Haitians than Dominicans do. Yet, wages in Haiti are among the lowest in the hemisphere and in general, the quality of life in Haiti is also among the worst. Haiti even has one of the lowest life expectancy in the hemisphere, a greater part of its population living in poverty and extreme poverty, etc. This was since before the current security situation. :unsure:
I actually thought Dominican business did hire Haitians. And when expats hire them its still technically a “Dominican” employer if it’s a Dominican company entity.
 
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bob saunders

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I actually thought Dominican business did hire Haitians. And when expats hire them its still technically a “Dominican” employer if it’s a Dominican company entity.
I think it is common for example, for a Dominican small Plumber to hire a Haitian helper. I haven't seen any working in Colmados, even the ones that cater to Haitians. My Neighbour had a Haitian cook in her restaurant, and a Hattian waitress. A lot of the truck drivers have a Haitian swamper.
 
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MoJoInDR

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Chile too had a large and quick increase of Haitian migrants. In a very short time Santiago de Chile went from basically having no Haitians to the point Haitians in Chile now have certain stereotypes such as entire families living in abandoned buildings. What is actually silly is that it seems you’re completely unaware of this.

So what... The increase took place after the devastating earthquake in Haiti. Chile had no visa requirement for visitors and many Haitians took advantage of that to move to a country that, at the time, had a safe and good economic environment.

As usual, your speaking on the matter is superficial, and deliberately so because of your desperate desire to present Haitian immigrants in a derogatory way.

And the thing is... Should you find yourself in the same position as these Haitians you would do the same thing to survive. People like you are such hypocrites.

And the larger groups of immigrants in Chile are Venezuelan and Peruvian... Then Haitian, with Columbian a close fourth. And from stats it seems like Peru, Colombia, Bolivia, and Argentina are the top countries of origin for immigrants in recent years.

NALs... Immigration is taking place all over the world, as people try to flee economic oppression and destitution, as well as violence... But I fully understand that a lover of the despot, Trujillo, would speak the way you do.

You really like that and completely turn a blind eye to the fact that most Dominican business owners don’t hire Haitians.

Yet another dishonest straw man from you, NALs... I never said nor suggested "...that most Dominican business owners..." hire Haitians.

How desperate you make yourself look with these utterly stupid, dishonest comments... Is propaganda the focus of your "...economist..." claim?

What’s next? That expats are enslavist for hiring Haitians, especially considering that on average areas with more expats than typical do have a higher presence of Haitians. Just look at this forum and how important Haitians are here. Part of that is obvious, many have Haitian gilfriends/wives and/or kid or two with a Haitian woman. This is not quite how it’s where Dominicans dominate. In fact, the element of having Haitians in the extended family which is a much greater prevalance among expats is not very common among Dominicans.

Seriously dude... Your pointless ranting like a senile old man.

The Haitian immigrant matter is obviously seen by the government of the DR as one of high priority... Which tells us that it is certainly of importance to Dominicans.

But perhaps you think you know better than those in government... Which wouldn't surprise me, seeing that you think that a return to the days of Trujillo is what the DR needs.

Haitian business owners in depend much more on Haitians than Dominicans do. Yet, wages in Haiti are among the lowest in the hemisphere and in general, the quality of life in Haiti is also among the worst. Haiti even has one of the lowest life expectancy in the hemisphere, a greater part of its population living in poverty and extreme poverty, etc. This was since before the current security situation. :unsure:

Haiti's economic woes are well known and documented, NALs... As is the historical cause of these present woes.

And the same can be said about a multitude of countries all over the world... Including a booming India in which the hatred of the "...untouchables..." still exists... The Rohingya genocide in Myanmar... The genocide in Darfur... In this day and age, why?

As is typical with you... Your myopic view is just sad to witness... Especially from someone who seems to think highly of themself.

What else ya got, NALs... Anything at all of substance?
 

MoJoInDR

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I think there is the problem: to try to please the international community. For instance, a couple of years ago I read ¨El Protocolo de la Miel y la Frontera Dominico-Haitiana", which explains how Trujillo gave away hundreds of Kilometers of Dominican territory to Haiti, and there was even pressure from the U.S. involved. Also I heard that with the Regularization plan they approved lots of Haitians who didn´t qualify , just to please the international community. So, I think the DR first needs to do what is right for the DR. You can´t please everyone. The DR needs to grow some balls!

Aguaita... I never said that the DR government should "...try to please the international community...", in the context of not doing right by DR's need.

To gain cookie points does not necessarily mean to subject yourself to the whims/preferences of others... In the context that I used it, it means to properly handle the immigrant worker problem, and in so doing, because of its proper handling of the immigrant problem, through this, the DR government can testify to its ability/capacity to overcome problems, which would cause the DR to be seen in a good light.

I came across an article about the gold mine just north of Santo Domingo, and in the article was a photo of the mine from the nearby town. It looked terrible, how the land was being torn up. And the problem with the town's inhabitants is another issue... And in the same way that the government handles the Haiti worker problem will be watched internationally, so perhaps will the gold mine problem be watched... And the handling of it by the government can either gain the DR cookie points or not do so.

Growing balls is one thing... Knowing how to properly use the balls that you grow for your best interest is another.
 

MoJoInDR

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I actually thought Dominican business did hire Haitians. And when expats hire them its still technically a “Dominican” employer if it’s a Dominican company entity.

NALs will try and manipulate things, even dishonestly, to try and support his seeming Trujillo-love agenda/preferences/propaganda.
 
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drstock

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Then those with no visas have to go. It is simple.
But I thought you have no problem with Haitians who are here legally. Those who had an expired visa were obviously here legally to get one in the first place. Now, it seems that the government is deliberately making these people illegal by not renewing visas, despite the fact that they have done nothing wrong. And you apparently support this, right?
 

MoJoInDR

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This is not about religion... Personally, I don't do religion... But in my reading, I came across this, and it has become a pillar in my personal life/living...

"...Where there is no vision, the people cast off restraint; But happy is he who keeps the law."

My personal experience has taught me that this is absolutely true... When there is a lack of vision, chaos follows.

And this is not just applicable to big-picture matters... It is applicable to every minor detail as well.

Progress is made through a clear vision, from which a clear strategy is created, from which the proper tactics are recognized and carried out for the accomplishing of the set goal... And if there is a breakdown in any area, distractions come in and chaos follows.

It's with this in mind that I presented my thoughts in my earlier comment... Vision, strategy, and tactics, to accomplish set goals.

And when this is in place, it allows the freedom to make useful adjustments as you go forward.

Kind of like a pilot's flight plan, that can be adjusted should something unexpected come up during the executing of it.
 

keepcoming

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Yet another dishonest straw man from you, NALs... I never said nor suggested "...that most Dominican business owners..." hire Haitians.

How desperate you make yourself look with these utterly stupid, dishonest comments... Is propaganda the focus of your "...economist..." claim?

Seriously dude... Your pointless ranting like a senile old man.

As is typical with you... Your myopic view is just sad to witness... Especially from someone who seems to think highly of themself.


What else ya got, NALs... Anything at all of substance?
I do not see where these types of comments are necessary, which are in the complete version of your post.
 

MoJoInDR

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I do not see where these types of comments are necessary, which are in the complete version of your post.
On multiple occasions, NALs has deliberately/dishonestly suggested that I put forward certain thoughts/ideas in my speaking that I did not... This is called straw man building and is an intentional misrepresentation of what I've said... And typically done with the deliberate intention of causing a derogatory view of what I've said and my person... And I don't take such dishonesty lying down... Nor should I, or anyone else.

I have pointed this out to him on more than one occasion and yet he persists in doing it.

Additionally, his speaking I referred to as that of a ranting senile old man was exactly that... Completely unrelated to the discussion... And further... Completely unrelated to anything I had said.

Also... On more than one occasion NALs has presented his derogatory speaking using explanations that seem informed but are far from the whole truth of the matter... Such as when he spoke in his comment about migrant Haitians in Chile, but not giving the whole view of the matter of immigrants in Chile and why the Haitians went to Chile.

There is no doubt in my mind that NALs has an agenda of speaking about Haitian immigrants in a derogatory way and doing so with dishonesty. This is akin to the propaganda that you'd see coming from extremist camps who are insisting on their way being the best way for all... And as history has shown, it never is.

When I speak in a strong manner, such as I did here, it is with the intention of making sure the correct understanding is gained by others reading these comments, and perhaps the person conducting themselves in such an unsavory manner may correct themselves.

I have no problem with anyone speaking their mind according to their preferences... But do so in an honest, non-ad hominin manner... So that anyone reading what you write will not misled in their thoughts about other forum participants.
 

MoJoInDR

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Your reading comprehension is on the ball..................
Glad it is... And happy to let both you and JD Jones, and anyone else who might be thinking this, know that MoJoInDR is an absolutely new member, having never been a member of DR previously.