Haiti's Burden of History

[mountainannie]

In speaking with one of my Haitian friends recently, I observed that in discussions with some of the younger journalists, I observed that Haiti is always burdened by her history. Educated young Haitians when speaking with me would always start back at the "defeat of Napoleon's army." Then they would proceed to "Haiti will not succeed because the United States does not want her to succeed"..... My very best young Haitian friend was shocked when I said that I thought that nothing would please most Americans more than to see Haiti succeed.

I contrasted my observations of young Haitians to my observations of young Dominicans who were not burdened by any sense of history
but rather motivated by what would be most productive for them to move forward - "Baseball? Baseball will do it?? Sure - I will play baseball."

Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934. (With a resentment passed down from mother to child)

United States occupation of Haiti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This commentary from one Haitian intellectual was forwarded to me today by a friend...

Which contains both that resentment as well as an acknowledgement of the complete failure of the bourgeoisie to construct the infrastructure required for a republic...

for those who speak/understand French...(and Spanish speakers may indeed understand a great deal)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=357782852618404

 

[LTDan]

In speaking with one of my Haitian friends recently, I observed that in discussions with some of the younger journalists, I observed that Haiti is always burdened by her history. Educated young Haitians when speaking with me would always start back at the "defeat of Napoleon's army." Then they would proceed to "Haiti will not succeed because the United States does not want her to succeed"..... My very best young Haitian friend was shocked when I said that I thought that nothing would please most Americans more than to see Haiti succeed.

I contrasted my observations of young Haitians to my observations of young Dominicans who were not burdened by any sense of history
but rather motivated by what would be most productive for them to move forward - "Baseball? Baseball will do it?? Sure - I will play baseball."

Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934. (With a resentment passed down from mother to child)

United States occupation of Haiti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This commentary from one Haitian intellectual was forwarded to me today by a friend...

Which contains both that resentment as well as an acknowledgement of the complete failure of the bourgeoisie to construct the infrastructure required for a republic...

for those who speak/understand French...(and Spanish speakers may indeed understand a great deal)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=357782852618404

"Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934." I bet somewhere around 99.9999999999% of Haitians wish we had annexed the country as a territory, I'm sure as glad as all heck that we didn't.

 

[mountainannie]

"Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934." I bet somewhere around 99.9999999999% of Haitians wish we had annexed the country as a territory, I'm sure as glad as all heck that we didn't.

I have no indication that is true. It might be true for the Dominican side of the Island but most Haitians that I know have a very strong nationalism. Even second and third generation Haitian Americans still identify here as Haitians - still speak Kreyol at home. I found a great deal more affection for Americans in the DR than in Haiti.

 

[windeguy]

Good to know. Yet another reason for me to never visit Haiti. As if I need another one.

 

[Big]

Good to know. Yet another reason for me to never visit Haiti. As if I need another one.

well I will tell you there is NO reason to visit. Especially if you like good food, restaurants, wine, A/C, clean beaches, internet, security etc. Burning garbage or whatever that smell is, sewage and desperation makes for a downer weekend trip

 

[NanSanPedro]

I have no indication that is true. It might be true for the Dominican side of the Island but most Haitians that I know have a very strong nationalism. Even second and third generation Haitian Americans still identify here as Haitians - still speak Kreyol at home. I found a great deal more affection for Americans in the DR than in Haiti.

Flag Day is a big deal in Haiti. I have witnessed many parades and displays of patriotism.

 

[melphis]

I guess Haiti should find a place in the line of countries that still consider the USA as an enemy. (Coming from a Canadian)
If I have learned anything from these rag tag third world impoverished countries is that if you are to lazy to fix it yourself, then blame the Americans.

 

[USA DOC]

I guess Haiti should find a place in the line of countries that still consider the USA as an enemy. (Coming from a Canadian)
If I have learned anything from these rag tag third world impoverished countries is that if you are to lazy to fix it yourself, then blame the Americans.

Has Haiti ever considered putting some blame on France?..........

 

[USA DOC]

"Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934." I bet somewhere around 99.9999999999% of Haitians wish we had annexed the country as a territory, I'm sure as glad as all heck that we didn't.

Noooo we did not...instead we annexed Puerto Rico, not sure about that one either?............

 

[Naked_Snake]

Has Haiti ever considered putting some blame on France?..........

Neeeeever, specially since it is still to this day the favorite jaunt of their elites (no matter their complexion). Funny thing is, they like to point their finger at us for loving Spain too much, while they are guilty of doing the same with their own former metropolis.

 

[NanSanPedro]

Neeeeever, specially since it is still to this day the favorite jaunt of their elites (no matter their complexion). Funny thing is, they like to point their finger at us for loving Spain too much, while they are guilty of doing the same with their own former metropolis.

And the ones that kept them enslaved for many years.

I was often asked if I spoke French and I told them I hated French because of what they did to the Haitians. They all thought it was funny.

 

[NALs]

I guess Haiti should find a place in the line of countries that still consider the USA as an enemy. (Coming from a Canadian)
If I have learned anything from these rag tag third world impoverished countries is that if you are to lazy to fix it yourself, then blame the Americans.

The Axis of Evil + Haiti? lol

A quick glance at Haiti's history and it becomes obvious why the USA has the image it has among some Haitians. Not justifying it, just saying the obvious. It's not as if Haitians are taking this critical view of the USA vis-a-vis Haiti out of thin air. It may not be an accurate belief anymore, but Americans in general do need to accept that the USA treated Haiti in not so nice ways for a good amount of time. The same can't be said with say Canada.

 

[Lobo Tropical]

In speaking with one of my Haitian friends recently, I observed that in discussions with some of the younger journalists, I observed that Haiti is always burdened by her history. Educated young Haitians when speaking with me would always start back at the "defeat of Napoleon's army." Then they would proceed to "Haiti will not succeed because the United States does not want her to succeed"..... My very best young Haitian friend was shocked when I said that I thought that nothing would please most Americans more than to see Haiti succeed.

I contrasted my observations of young Haitians to my observations of young Dominicans who were not burdened by any sense of history
but rather motivated by what would be most productive for them to move forward - "Baseball? Baseball will do it?? Sure - I will play baseball."

Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934. (With a resentment passed down from mother to child)

United States occupation of Haiti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This commentary from one Haitian intellectual was forwarded to me today by a friend...

Which contains both that resentment as well as an acknowledgement of the complete failure of the bourgeoisie to construct the infrastructure required for a republic...

for those who speak/understand French...(and Spanish speakers may indeed understand a great deal)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=357782852618404

It's always easier blaming others, then taking responsibility for yourself.
Other Nations rebuild after wars.
Haitians ran down the country.

The world is full of wars, hunger and problems.
No-one will come to the rescue and give more money.

Germany Trümmerfrauen (rubble women rebuilding)
Vietnam, Korea, Japan after nuclear strikes.

Time for Haitians to get moving, it's blessed with climate, growing seasons and the ocean.

 

[Lobo Tropical]

In speaking with one of my Haitian friends recently, I observed that in discussions with some of the younger journalists, I observed that Haiti is always burdened by her history. Educated young Haitians when speaking with me would always start back at the "defeat of Napoleon's army." Then they would proceed to "Haiti will not succeed because the United States does not want her to succeed"..... My very best young Haitian friend was shocked when I said that I thought that nothing would please most Americans more than to see Haiti succeed.

I contrasted my observations of young Haitians to my observations of young Dominicans who were not burdened by any sense of history
but rather motivated by what would be most productive for them to move forward - "Baseball? Baseball will do it?? Sure - I will play baseball."

Haiti, on the other hand, still holds the United States (et al) as "an enemy" -
And has certainly neither forgiven nor forgotten the invasion and occupation of 1915-1934. (With a resentment passed down from mother to child)

United States occupation of Haiti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This commentary from one Haitian intellectual was forwarded to me today by a friend...

Which contains both that resentment as well as an acknowledgement of the complete failure of the bourgeoisie to construct the infrastructure required for a republic...

for those who speak/understand French...(and Spanish speakers may indeed understand a great deal)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=357782852618404

Since you like studying the burden of history, think about the African cousins.
Can everything be blamed on colonialism?
"Only white-dominated settler economies that were able to operate with some degree of autonomy, such as South Africa and Southern Rhodesia, managed to develop a substantial industrial sector, albeit relying on a combination of protective barriers and African labour coercion."

After the colonials left Africa, under African leadership, what has happened?
Massive corruption by African leaders, tribal warfare.

Sadly many focus only on African slavery.
Study history of many Nations, wars, conquest and slavery.
African wars and slaves taken in tribal warfare, before colonialism.
Mongolia, China, Japan, Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, indigenous wars in N. America with captured slaves and torture.
The worlds history did nor start with colonialism.

How Africa’s colonial history affects its development | World Economic Forum

 

[Lobo Tropical]

I guess Haiti should find a place in the line of countries that still consider the USA as an enemy. (Coming from a Canadian)
If I have learned anything from these rag tag third world impoverished countries is that if you are to lazy to fix it yourself, then blame the Americans.

I'm laughing about the whining of colonialism and the attempt to rewrite history, judging by todays standards.
The brutality of colonials.

When Christoper Columbus set out on his voyages of discovery without knowledge of the world and without maps in 1492,
Ferdinand and Isabella ordained as Catholic King and Queen by Pope Alexander the VI, after winning against the Moslems and occupation.
It was also a time of inquisition, brutality against their own people was the norm.

Regardless Columbus did discover and conquer, as did the European colonials.
Time to stop apologizing, for conquest, exploration and scientific advances.

The other people of the world could have conquered us, but they didn't.

 

[melphis]

I'm laughing about the whining of colonialism and the attempt to rewrite history, judging by todays standards.
The brutality of colonials.

When Christoper Columbus set out on his voyages of discovery without knowledge of the world and without maps in 1492,
Ferdinand and Isabella ordained as Catholic King and Queen by Pope Alexander the VI, after winning against the Moslems and occupation.
It was also a time of inquisition, brutality against their own people was the norm.

Regardless Columbus did discover and conquer, as did the European colonials.
Time to stop apologizing, for conquest, exploration and scientific advances.

The other people of the world could have conquered us, but they didn't.

And most of them still blame the Americans and other developed nations that look to better themselves and have enjoyment from life, rather than self implode.
I really don't want to be the one that shuts down this thread but it's pretty obvious were this is going.
Seeing as this forum does not tolerate racism or politics I will stop now as somehow when the truth is spoken in todays world its called racism.

 

[LTDan]

Noooo we did not...instead we annexed Puerto Rico, not sure about that one either?............

 

[LTDan]

Puerto Rico had already been annexed after the Spanish American War in 1898, I actually like to think we never annexed Haiti because we learned by our mistake , for once

 

[windeguy]

Yes, it is interesting to see countries be able to rebuild after wars and tragedy.

Other countries, like some in the Middle East and Africa, have not done well at all and don't do well today.

Haiti is another that does not do well. Using history as an excuse for failures today does not sit well, but I realize it is a factor. I am more interested in "what next" instead of "what last".

 

[mountainannie]

From the US Gov- office of the official historian
...:In 1914, the Wilson administration sent U.S. Marines into Haiti. They removed $500,000 from the Haitian National Bank in December of 1914 for safe-keeping in New York, thus giving the United States control of the bank. In 1915, Haitian President Jean Vilbrun Guillaume Sam was assassinated and the situation in Haiti quickly became unstable. In response, President Wilson sent the U.S. Marines to Haiti to prevent anarchy. In actuality, the act protected U.S. assets in the area and prevented a possible German invasion.

The invasion ended with the Haitian-American Treaty of 1915. The articles of this agreement created the Haitian Gendarmerie, essentially a military force made up of U.S. citizens and Haitians and controlled by the U.S. Marines. The United States gained complete control over Haitian finances, and the right to intervene in Haiti whenever the U.S. Government deemed necessary. The U.S. Government also forced the election of a new pro-American President, Philippe Sudré Dartiguenave, by the Haitian legislature in August 1915. The selection of a President that did not represent the choice of the Haitian populace increased unrest in Haiti."...

Milestones: 1914–1920 - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov