Has anyone successfully rejuvinated inverter batteries?

B

beeza

Guest
With inverter batteries around 7k pesos each and my set up has eight batteries, I think it's worth a try.

When they were new, they could last up to twelve hours on inverter power. Now, I'm lucky if I get twenty minutes.

So do I shell out 56k pesos for new ones, or try and rejuvinate them with some basic chemicals?

Step 1; drain battery electrolyte.
Step 2; flush with solution of distilled water and baking soda.
Step 3; repeat flush with baking soda solution, then drain completely.
Step 4; Fill cells with solution of distilled water and epsom salts.
Step 5; constant current charge for at least 48 hrs

Here's the You Tube tutorial

 
L

lifeisgreat

Guest
Beeza buy new ones not worth the effort to redneck it...
 
W

windeguy

Guest
The main failure mode of batteries is because of sulphation on the plates. It builds up over time because of the charge and discharge cycles and is worse in areas where ambient temperatures are high, like in the DR.

EDTA, a chemical normally used to preserve food items, was touted as a way to remove the sulphation. It never worked for me.

Another failure mode is lead dropping to the bottom of the battery and shorting out a cell, rendering the battery useless.

Neither of those failure modes will be rejuvenated by replacing the acid. I am afraid you will be wasting your time with any and all rejuvenation methods and then be buying 8 new batteries. I settled on Trojan Red T105 batteries as the most cost effective choice.
 
X

xstew

Guest
The main failure mode of batteries is because of sulphation on the plates. It builds up over time because of the charge and discharge cycles and is worse in areas where ambient temperatures are high, like in the DR.

EDTA, a chemical normally used to preserve food items, was touted as a way to remove the sulphation. It never worked for me.

Another failure mode is lead dropping to the bottom of the battery and shorting out a cell, rendering the battery useless.

Neither of those failure modes will be rejuvenated by replacing the acid. I am afraid you will be wasting your time with any and all rejuvenation methods and then be buying 8 new batteries. I settled on Trojan Red T105 batteries as the most cost effective choice.
I sold GNB batteries for over 10 years and asked the company about this subject. Their reply you can try but it's a waist of time. Once the lead cinter is disolved no way it will grow back.
 
C

cobraboy

Guest
Unless you can rejuvenate the lead plates, you won't rejuvenate the batteries.

I agree with Windy: net net, red Trojan's T105's are the most cost effective batteries on the market today. Why? More lead...

Make sure you have an equalization cycle on your charger to de-sulfate the plates.
 
Z

zoomzx11

Guest
Winde knows his batteries.
If you decide to do battery cpr please be sure and come back and tell us how it went.
Who know you could be the first, the Chosen one, so to speak to successfully bring batteries back from the dead.

Since we ate talking batteries I always wondered about guys saying never set batteries on concrete, it drains them.
How would a battery inside a plastic case know it was setting on concrete.
Any science to this?
 
W

windeguy

Guest
Winde knows his batteries.
If you decide to do battery cpr please be sure and come back and tell us how it went.
Who know you could be the first, the Chosen one, so to speak to successfully bring batteries back from the dead.

Since we ate talking batteries I always wondered about guys saying never set batteries on concrete, it drains them.
How would a battery inside a plastic case know it was setting on concrete.
Any science to this?
The plastic used today in non-conductive, so there could be no reason a battery will discharge sitting on concrete or any other surfcace.
 
C

Cdn_Gringo

Guest
Setting the batteries on the concrete floor is related to heat exchange not discharge. Concrete holds heat for a long time and conversely concrete can retain the cold equally well. Batteries do not like being too cold and they don't like being too hot either. By providing an inch or two of airspace between the batteries and the floor the air can circulate so a hot/cool floor doesn't have an impact on the batteries. Batteries can get warm during charging and if sitting on the floor some of that heat is conducted to the concrete which in turn keeps the bottom of the battery warmer than it needs to be.
 
E

etolw

Guest
The main failure mode of batteries is because of sulphation on the plates. It builds up over time because of the charge and discharge cycles and is worse in areas where ambient temperatures are high, like in the DR.



Neither of those failure modes will be rejuvenated by replacing the acid. I am afraid you will be wasting your time with any and all rejuvenation methods and then be buying 8 new batteries. I settled on Trojan Red T105 batteries as the most cost effective choice.
I have been considering a product that claims to prevent sulphation on the plates, Megapulse VEESystem. It does not claim to rejuvenate dead batteries though, but if you have e.g. 50% capacity left, it can help according to some success stories from its customers (looks credible with big names like Volvo Trucks http://d3k0i7n26y0ont.cloudfront.net/41f69a8a27724f6d42f0d38f12673abad8e8262d/Case%20Studies.pdf)

Megapulse has recently been introduced in DR, https://www.ideomaticsrl.com/veesystem

It costs about 7k dop, same as a new battery.

I might give it a try, the specific gravity of my batteries indicate about half capacity, and it is easy to measure any improvement. And it seems beyond doubt that it is benificial when using new batteries to prevent sulphation.

Any with experience using the product. It has been on the market for many years, one could ask if it works well with new batteries, why do you not see it in more stores....

Anyway, more information/sales pitch here http://www.necon.co.za/index.php
 
C

cobraboy

Guest
I have been considering a product that claims to prevent sulphation on the plates, Megapulse VEESystem. It does not claim to rejuvenate dead batteries though, but if you have e.g. 50% capacity left, it can help according to some success stories from its customers (looks credible with big names like Volvo Trucks http://d3k0i7n26y0ont.cloudfront.net/41f69a8a27724f6d42f0d38f12673abad8e8262d/Case%20Studies.pdf)

Megapulse has recently been introduced in DR, https://www.ideomaticsrl.com/veesystem

It costs about 7k dop, same as a new battery.

I might give it a try, the specific gravity of my batteries indicate about half capacity, and it is easy to measure any improvement. And it seems beyond doubt that it is benificial when using new batteries to prevent sulphation.

Any with experience using the product. It has been on the market for many years, one could ask if it works well with new batteries, why do you not see it in more stores....

Anyway, more information/sales pitch here http://www.necon.co.za/index.php
These have been around for several years.

So they figured how to turn sulfate back into lead plate inside the battery? I don't think so.

The device employs the old mechanic trick of dead shorting a sulfated battery several times rapidly (a pulse) which supposedly knocks some sulfate off the plates. If a batter is really screwed with poor maintenance and no equalization, such action may actually work...temporarily. But even then the sulfate sinks to the bottom, building up a layer, until it comes in to contact with the bottom of the plates...and the battery totally dies with an internal short.

Proper maintenance and charging will extend battery life far beyond any such gimmick.

Your inverter should, at minimum, have an equalization charging phase.

I wouldn't spend RD$7k on one.
 
M

malko

Guest
I think there is some trick to get some more life out of tired/dead batteries, otherwise why would some guys buy up the old batteries when one changes the bank ?

I venturly guessed it was for recycling, like they sold the dead batteries for scrap metal or whatnot.
But last time I didnt sell the old batteries back to the shop where I was getting the new ones ( as I had done the time before ), because my electrician guy told me I would get a better price with some other guy he knew.
Well, to my surprise, I a) did get a better price ( nothing to home about, mind you ), and b) said-guy did some testing on them before proposing a price.

I have 0 idea what they do, could do, to the old batteries. Nor do I have any intrest in knowing, but I am guessing they are re-sold somewhere down the line after being re-something or other...... or else why would guys buy old batteries off us ?
 
C

cobraboy

Guest
I think there is some trick to get some more life out of tired/dead batteries, otherwise why would some guys buy up the old batteries when one changes the bank ?

I venturly guessed it was for recycling, like they sold the dead batteries for scrap metal or whatnot.
But last time I didnt sell the old batteries back to the shop where I was getting the new ones ( as I had done the time before ), because my electrician guy told me I would get a better price with some other guy he knew.
Well, to my surprise, I a) did get a better price ( nothing to home about, mind you ), and b) said-guy did some testing on them before proposing a price.

I have 0 idea what they do, could do, to the old batteries. Nor do I have any intrest in knowing, but I am guessing they are re-sold somewhere down the line after being re-something or other...... or else why would guys buy old batteries off us ?
There is a market for serviceable, used deep-cycle batteries.
 
W

windeguy

Guest
I think there is some trick to get some more life out of tired/dead batteries, otherwise why would some guys buy up the old batteries when one changes the bank ?

I venturly guessed it was for recycling, like they sold the dead batteries for scrap metal or whatnot.
But last time I didnt sell the old batteries back to the shop where I was getting the new ones ( as I had done the time before ), because my electrician guy told me I would get a better price with some other guy he knew.
Well, to my surprise, I a) did get a better price ( nothing to home about, mind you ), and b) said-guy did some testing on them before proposing a price.

I have 0 idea what they do, could do, to the old batteries. Nor do I have any intrest in knowing, but I am guessing they are re-sold somewhere down the line after being re-something or other...... or else why would guys buy old batteries off us ?
When a battery bank fails, frequently one battery is in worse shape than the others. If the "expert battery tech" finds ones in similar shape that can be matched up, they can still be used for a short time and that is an area where reselling them comes into play.

On the opposite end of this issue is when you find out one battery has failed in an old bank , you run out and buy a new battery to replace the failed battery, it puts stress on the remaining batteries and they fail quickly and you wasted the money on that new battery. It would have been better to replace the failed battery with one in similar condition, and that is another market for used batteries that are not dead yet.

I suspect most old batteries are recycled.
 
O

Olly

Guest
Hi Beeza, I have tried with edht and had marginal success. It only brought the capacity up a bit . However if the edht is put into a battery about 18 months into it life it has a significant effect on the life - maybe a year. The best option is to identify the poor batteries by putting a load tested on each one in the bank but make sure you disconnect one link on the bank otherwise you are just checking the charge from the invertor. You will find the poor ones. PROBABLY ONE OR MORE IN EACH BANK. By rearranging all the good ones into one bank you will improve the time you get out of the system. The remaining batteries are probably scrap.
IF you add 4 new batteries connect the old bank to the invertor leads then the new batteries with links. This helps equalise the charging by putting a higher resistence in the leads to the new batteries.
 
E

etolw

Guest
If anything really worked, we would have heard about it.
These have been around for several years.

So they figured how to turn sulfate back into lead plate inside the battery? I don't think so.

The device employs the old mechanic trick of dead shorting a sulfated battery several times rapidly (a pulse) which supposedly knocks some sulfate off the plates. If a batter is really screwed with poor maintenance and no equalization, such action may actually work...temporarily. But even then the sulfate sinks to the bottom, building up a layer, until it comes in to contact with the bottom of the plates...and the battery totally dies with an internal short.

Proper maintenance and charging will extend battery life far beyond any such gimmick.

Your inverter should, at minimum, have an equalization charging phase.

I wouldn't spend RD$7k on one.
Decided to not spend (waste) money on the Megapulse device. After some more research I believe the advice above by windeguy/cobraboy sums it up regarding this device. Thanks.

I had a closer look at my inverter that were installed by the previous owner and found a switch for a manual equalization phase. I ran equalization with positive result, substantial increase when measuring with hydrometer.
The battery type setting on the inverter were also set to PbCa/Lead Calcium which I believe is not optimal since I have Deep Cycle lead acid. Changed that setting as well to slightly increase the charger bulk and float voltage.

Almost perfect now, but one cell in the bank of four 6V batteries has a hydrometer reading of 1225, all the others have 1265.
Guess that battery has gone slightly bad.

I decided to spend $36.50 on a battery monitor to better understand what amount of energy I consume during blackouts (quite frequent lately,edenorte), as well as remaining capacity. Also going to use the monitor to adjust the inverter charging setting to optimal values (I already have a voltmeter but lacks the ability to measure current)
Link to battery monitor
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D2X2JSH/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Lesson learned, equalization cycle should be done to prevent sulphate build up. Very good information on the Trojan battery webpage,

Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged.

It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.

Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery.
https://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/

1. Can I use battery additives?
Trojan Battery, along with other battery manufacturers, do not recommend that you add anything to your batteries other than distilled water. Extensive testing has shown that most of these additives do not work as advertised; in fact, some may do more harm than good. Be aware that adding anything other than water to your batteries will void the warranty.

2. Do you recommend the use of desulfators?
We don’t recommend the use of desulfators or any other external device, as they tend to do more harm than good. No external device or chemicals need to be added to our products – only distilled water.

3. Do you ever add acid to a battery?
Under normal operating conditions, you never need to add acid. Only distilled, deionized or approved water should be added to achieve the recommended levels mentioned above.
 
E

etolw

Guest
Just wanted to report/confirm that my battery bank works much better now after an equalization cycle followed by more optimal settings on the inverter.
And I installed a cheap battery monitor to be able to see what actually happens with voltage and currents, wattage and kWh consumed.

Here are some pictures in case someone is interested

Inverter mode, fans, outside flood lights and fridge/freezer running, consuming 703W


Fridge/freezer shut off, saving 351W (consuming 352W)


Charging after todays outage with 12,3 A
Outage consumed 1,2kWh and lasted 2 hours.
 
C

cobraboy

Guest
Just wanted to report/confirm that my battery bank works much better now after an equalization cycle followed by more optimal settings on the inverter.
And I installed a cheap battery monitor to be able to see what actually happens with voltage and currents, wattage and kWh consumed.

Here are some pictures in case someone is interested
Nice! What make/model is that? It would make a fine addition to our system.
 
E

etolw

Guest
Nice! What make/model is that? It would make a fine addition to our system.
It is a small Chinese device I found after some research, on sale from amazon/ebay etc.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D2X2JSH/

As usual with those cheap Chinese gadgets the manual/instructions could have been better, but after fiddling with the setup it has worked well. It has good reviews also from other sources.

It comes without housing/mounting box. I just picked up a small plastic box from the nearest hardware store to mount it to the wall. The hall effect current sensor has a 2m cable, but I needed to extend the wires for voltage/battery connections which were too short for me. Any two wire cable would do the job.

For its price it does a great job, $36.50

If money is not an issue, consider this for best quality/brand :D
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-MONITOR-VTBMV-S-BMV-712-Battery/dp/B075RTSTKS