Herd Immunity from CV19 was never possible

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windeguy

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Finally some realism. With CV19, there was NEVER a chance for "herd immunity" based upon infection or current "vaccine" technology. Please note the current narrative is "live with it":

CHICAGO, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The Omicron variant, which is spreading far faster than previous versions of the coronavirus, is not likely to help countries achieve so-called herd immunity against COVID-19, in which enough people become immune to the virus that it can no longer spread, leading disease experts say.

From the earliest days of the pandemic, public health officials have expressed hope that it was possible to achieve herd immunity against COVID-19, as long as a high enough percentage of the population was vaccinated or infected with the virus.


Those hopes dimmed as the coronavirus mutated into new variants in quick succession over the past year, enabling it to reinfect people who were vaccinated or had previously contracted COVID-19.

Some health officials have revived the possibility of herd immunity since Omicron emerged late last year.

The fact that the variant spreads so quickly and causes milder illness might soon expose enough people, in a less harmful way, to the SARS-COV-2 virus and provide that protection, they argue.


Disease experts note, however, that Omicron’s transmissibility is aided by the fact that this variant is even better than its predecessors at infecting people who were vaccinated or had a prior infection. That adds to evidence that the coronavirus will continue to find ways to break through our immune defenses, they said.

“Reaching a theoretical threshold beyond which transmission will cease is probably unrealistic given the experience we have had in the pandemic,” Dr. Olivier le Polain, an epidemiologist with the World Health Organization (WHO), told Reuters.


That is not to say that prior immunity offers no benefit. Instead of herd immunity, many experts interviewed by Reuters said there was growing evidence that vaccines and prior infection would help boost population immunity against COVID-19, which makes the disease less serious for those who are infected, or become reinfected.

“As long as population immunity holds with this variant and future variants, we'll be fortunate and the disease will be manageable,” said Dr. David Heymann, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

NOT LIKE MEASLES

Current COVID-19 vaccines were primarily designed to prevent severe disease and death rather than infection. But clinical trial results in late 2020 showing that two of the vaccines had more than 90% efficacy against the disease initially sparked hope that the virus could be largely contained by widespread vaccination, similar to the way measles has been curbed by inoculation.

With SARS-CoV-2, two factors have since undermined that picture, said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

"The first is that immunity, especially to infection, which is the important kind of immunity, wanes quite quickly, at least from the vaccines that we have right now," he said.

The second is that the virus can quickly mutate in a way that enables it to elude protection from vaccination or prior infection - even when immunity has not waned.

"It changes the game when vaccinated people can still shed virus and infect other people," said Dr. David Wohl, an infectious disease specialist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine.

He cautioned against assuming that infection with Omicron would increase protection, especially against the next variant that might arise. "Just because you had Omicron, maybe that protects you from getting Omicron again, maybe," Wohl said.

Vaccines in development that provide immunity against future variants or even multiple types of coronaviruses could change that, said Pasi Penttinen, the top influenza expert at the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, but it will take time.

Still, the hope for herd immunity as a ticket back to normal life is hard to shake.

"These things were in the media: 'We’ll reach herd immunity when 60% of the population are vaccinated.' It didn't happen. Then for 80%. Again, it didn't happen,” Francois Balloux, professor of computational systems biology at University College London, told Reuters.

“As horrible as it sounds, I think we have to prepare ourselves to the fact that the vast majority, essentially everyone, will get exposed to SARS-CoV-2," he said.

Global health experts expect that the coronavirus will ultimately become endemic, circulating persistently in the population and causing sporadic surges. The emergence of Omicron, however, has raised questions about exactly when that might happen.

“We will get there," said the WHO's le Polain, "but we are not there at the moment.”

Reporting by Julie Steenhuysen; Additional reporting by Emma Farge in Geneva, Alistair Smout in London and Francesco Guarascio in Brussels; Editing by Michele Gershberg and Bill Berkrot
 
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zoomzx11

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herd immunity is a theory based upon experiences with spread of disease in cattle.
Never been accomplished with people.

Here is the later view of herd immunity.
Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Herd immunity was never more than a theory which looked good on paper.
No one anticipated the mix of politics and the hysterical fear of a little prick.
 

windeguy

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Herd immunity is possible for certain diseases. It was and is not a "theory" for them.

Just not coronaviruses with the technology currently available. It was never a possibility for CV19, if that is what you mean about a theory.
It certainly is possible for other sicknesses that have all but been eliminated by vaccinations.

The little prick of CV19 vaccinations?
If everyone was vaccinated on the same day, it would not stop the spread.
 

zoomzx11

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Herd immunity is possible for certain diseases. It was and is not a "theory" for them.

Just not coronaviruses with the technology currently available. It was never a possibility for CV19, if that is what you mean about a theory.
It certainly is possible for other sicknesses that have all but been eliminated by vaccinations.

The little prick of CV19 vaccinations?
If everyone was vaccinated on the same day, it would not stop the spread.
The anti vaxxers killed herd immunity for the current virus.
No vaccinations no herd immunity.
 

windeguy

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The anti vaxxers killed herd immunity for the current virus.
No vaccinations no herd immunity.
Sorry, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Please do some research on this virus.

The is NO POSSIBILITY OF HERD IMMUNITY NO MATTER HOW MANY VACCINATIONS ARE DONE !
Please read the post above from an expert on the impossibility of herd immunity.

Get it ,yet?
 

NanSanPedro

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So what now? Will they drop the stupid vaccine mandates and QR codes?

The control freaks will fight it, but yea, by July it should be done away with. Hopefully sooner but there will be mammoth discussions.
 

Ecoman1949

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A new Omicron variant, labelled Ba2 has been found in many countries. Denmark is the hotbed for the new Ba2 variant infections. it’s also been identified in Canada. No one knows if it more or less infectious or if it’s mild or severe. Pfizer is moving fast to come up with a vaccine for the original Omicron variant and nature has beat them and will continue to beat the drug companies as long as there are unvaccinated populations in the world. Covid has given big pharma a license to print money. Those that say we are transiting from pandemic to endemic because of the Omicron variant should rethink what they are saying.

Windy‘s premise that Covid is here to stay and herd immunity is not achievable gets more valid as the months pass. Some people have a hard time grasping that reality.
 
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CristoRey

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Pfizer is moving fast to come up with a vaccine for the original Omicron variant and nature has beat them and will continue to beat the drug companies as long as there are unvaccinated populations in the world.
Does not matter if a populations are vaccinated or not the virus along with the propaganda will continue to mutate and spread.
 
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Ecoman1949

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Does not matter if a populations are vaccinated or not the virus along with the propaganda will continue to mutate and spread.
CR. I agree the propaganda mutates along with the virus because of misinformation. It happened in 1918, long before worldwide social medial reared it’s ugly head.

Regarding vaccinations, I always go back to the basic scientific premise of vaccine development. They are our only defence in a pandemic and, If everyone gets vaccinated, the pandemic is brought under control. Sometimes totally eliminated, sometimes eliminated to the point where life can continue normally. Always with a risk to a certain percentage of the population who are averse to the vaccines for medical reasons. That’s been self evident since our response to the 1918 pandemic.
 
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windeguy

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There is no heard immunity. Both vaxed and unvaxed are getting the new strain. The vaccines are VERY limited in duration.
Proof of that is Australia ordering enough to vax its population 14 times over the next 7 years and Pfizer developing variant specific mRNA vaxes.
Turns out that previous infection does little to stop the current variant Omicron. There is no herd immunity possible ever Ecoman1949.

We have to learn to live with it.
 
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CristoRey

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CR. I agree the propaganda mutates along with the virus because of misinformation. It happened in 1918, long before worldwide social medial reared it’s ugly head.

Regarding vaccinations, I always go back to the basic scientific premise of vaccine development. They are our only defence in a pandemic and, If everyone gets vaccinated, the pandemic is brought under control. Sometimes totally eliminated, sometimes eliminated to the point where life can continue normally. Always with a risk to a certain percentage of the population who are averse to the vaccines for medical reasons. That’s been self evident since our response to the 1918 pandemic.
I see it the other way around.
The information mutates along with the virus because of the propaganda.
 

cavok

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The vaccines have done well in reducing hospitalization and death, but they will never eliminate the virus. Viruses always tend to increase in transmissibility and decrease in virality. That's what we're seeing with Omicron. Those who have been vaccinated are spreading the virus just as much as the unvaxxed and many scientists think the vaccines are actually causing more contagious mutations.
 
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