I tell you why they make so less ($$$)

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AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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I am just sick and tired of people defending the poor and low paying workers. You people have to be living here and working side by side with them to understand why these people make so less.
1st example: I am trying to mount a clinic sign in santo domingo. we are in the 4th set of guys to put up the clinic and I am about to fire them today. They seem to come, take measurements, we agree on price and all and then, nothing happens. Its an easy job yet they can't seem to do anything or deliver any job on time. They simply, shamelessly, don't call you or answer your calls. When they did try to do the job, their design was so chopo and so basic that even I could do 100 times better. Now I am on the 4th set of people who have promised stars and moon and even laughed at other people who were not able to deliver what we had agreed on. Now it seems they are on the same track. I would have to call and insult someone now.
2nd example:
Our clinic main doctora is in paris at the moment. Her personal secretary who also studies in university, needs to send an important message to the doctora via e mail. She comes to my office to have me send her an important e mail with a question asking for her authorization on some matter. Since she studies in university and I have never ever studied spanish formally, I asked her to write it on my computer. She instantly balked and insisted that I write it. I asked her if she studies in university? She said yes but I prefer you write it. I told her I don't know how to write in spanish well and simply handed over the laptop to her. As expected, she didn't even know how to put 2 words together in her own language. Her message was like this:
Doctora, es si o no?..... then she just stopped. She had no clue what to write or how to continue. At this point I took away the laptop from her and wrote a complete message to the doctora in my spanish.
So this is all they are good for: a college degree on the wall, a university ring on the finger and no knowledge of anything. They can't even write in their own language.
So tell me, why should they make more money than a person who actually did study in university and learned how to read and write and be independent in their quest to get ahead in their career? This is the difference between students from good families, who study in better universities and actually try to learn something as compared to these people who just go to university and only earn a paper in the end. This secretary has totally disappointed me. No wonder she is always yelled at by her boss. I used to feel sorry for her but now I know why the doctora loses her temper from time to time on the women here.
So the foreign women who think their poor dominican boyfriend is studying in a university and struggling to get ahead. Chances are, he will be struggling all his life without getting an inch ahead in anything.
AZB
 

RacerX

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Cant win for losing. I met a woman like your example number 2. She went on for days about how her father was illiterate but he worked so hard all his life and managed to send all this kids to university. Yea, thats wonderful. Then she said "and now we are all professionals." I had to correct her there. She was unemployed and had never had a job since she finished school. She was not a professional, just merely educated. As a matter of fact of the 4 children her father had, yes they were all college educated, but the only one who had a job was her sister who lives in Philadelphia. I think the people who complete college assume that it is all there is to it. You have arrived at your destination because you are college educated. You have earned the title Licensiada/o and that means much more than ever than if you didnt have it. A sign of respect and influence. Now, knowing how to do something and do it well? Well, thats a different argument, right?
 

Acira

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I worked for an American company in Europe and had to check the IT department as part of my job as an Internal Auditor.

Two American guy's were very competent, the third one had gone through University in the States not because he was an IT wizard for which they hired him at this company, but he happened to be just very very good in Tennis which paid for his years in University, playing more Tennis then sitting in the auditoria for learning....but he had his Masters.

Not much different there then then here in the DR it seems.
 

AZB

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People come to my office and can't write their own name. they only know how to sign their name but can't write it in legible format. This happened more in santiago than in SD. They simply know how to sign their name and thats it.
But this secretary really disappointed me. This was a simple one liner message to her boss yet she could not find word or even put it in context.
I wrote the simple message in my spanish:
hola doctora, espero que usted esta disfrutando su viaje a paris. Si usted pueda, favor de llamar la clinica or puede dar me su respuesta aqui: la senora (name of the person) de Nestle llamo y quiere saber si usted esta de acuerdo con el trato. Ella quiere saber "si" o "no"? gracias

That was it and the secretary could not even come close to imagining that. I am a foreigner without any formal spanish education yet I was able to write this. What was more disappointing, she didn't even care to be embarrassed about the fact she can't write. she just laughed it off and walked away.
AZB
 

AZB

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I worked for an American company in Europe and had to check the IT department as part of my job as an Internal Auditor.

Two American guy's were very competent, the third one had gone through University in the States not because he was an IT wizard for which they hired him at this company, but he happened to be just very very good in Tennis which paid for his years in University, playing more Tennis then sitting in the auditoria for learning....but he had his Masters.

Not much different there then then here in the DR it seems.

I disagree, there is a big difference. the university students in USA are far more prepared in their own country than the average university educated dominicans in DR. The majority of students here in cheap universities can't even write and this girl was a prime example.
Acira, forget about europe where you seem to derive your reality from, we are talking about DR. I guess you have to be living here and seeing this all with your own eyes to know what I am talking about. Every time we talk about DR, you seem to talk about how things are in europe.
AZB
 

Africaida

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How about NOT hiring people who can't write, especially as a secretary ?

If it was known that with a worthless degree or no real skills, one won't be able to find a job, may be students would be motivated to study and actually learn something.
 
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pedrochemical

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How do you gain a degree without being able to write?

Er, OK, apart from like that...

Seriously, is her degree real?
Did anybody check it out through her references?
 

ExtremeR

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She can write, probably better than all of us. She was just extremely intimidated by the Dra. That's why she wanted you to write the message AZB, because she believes your words have more weight than hers.

I've seen bosses in the DR humiliating employees in the DR in a daily basis just for fun or because they feel superior, that generate a really low confidence in the employees to do even the simpler tasks.
 

AZB

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How about NOT hiring people who can't write, especially as a secretary ?

If it was known that with a worthless degree or no real skills, one won't be able to find a job, may be students would be motivated to study and actually learn something.

I agree but unfortunately, she is the smartest one in the clinic among the secretaries. we have 3. Now just imagine the other ones. I have dealt with many secretaries over 12 yrs of time in DR. Believe me, they are all secretaries for a reason. They can't do anything else beside answering phones. Now the business (executive) secretaries in DR are way different. They talk and execute all their daily activities in a very professional manner. When a senator or a famous businessman comes to clinic, his secretary is way more advanced than any telephone answering secretaries in an average business. these women are professional and college educated. they accompany their boss on business trips and schedule his day at work. I am not talking about these secretaries. I am talking about the secretaries who complain all day, how little they make etc. These are the ones who don't know their own value.
AZB
 

AZB

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She can write, probably better than all of us. She was just extremely intimidated by the Dra. That's why she wanted you to write the message AZB, because she believes your words have more weight than hers.

I've seen bosses in the DR humiliating employees in the DR in a daily basis just for fun or because they feel superior, that generate a really low confidence in the employees to do even the simpler tasks.

I guess you don't live full time here either.
AZB
 

AZB

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How do you gain a degree without being able to write?

Er, OK, apart from like that...

Seriously, is her degree real?
Did anybody check it out through her references?

Dude just ask any college educated person in DR from barrios to write 2 sentences in spanish. You will have the answer.
AZB
 

RonS

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And this, in a third world country, with an educated president, who has been in power for enough time to make a difference. When Fernandez was elected this time, I had great hope that he would change things. Instead, there is a metro. I understand your frustration AZB. I have encountered what you have described on many of my frequent visits, and I have been disabused of the notion of expatriating. Unless and until the DR begins to take the education of the people seriously, the DR will continue to be a third world country.
 

Africaida

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There are many so called third world countries with very good colleges/universities. Granted very few reach that level and the selection is fearless, but the few who do often have superior skills than 1st world countries.

I studied Engineering in the US and most of the phd (doctorate ) students came from just that, third world countries, and they were brilliant and hard-working.
 

ExtremeR

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I guess you don't live full time here either.
AZB

I was born in the DR and just left August last year. All my IT and Networking experience was gathered in the DR. I know the ins and outs of the working environment in the DR and it is a fact bosses humiliates worker por cualquier quitame esta paja.

I usually agree with you AZB even if I don't like your delivery and there's a bunch of mediocre graduates out there in the DR, but also keep in mind this phenomena. That a graduate cannot write an email to her boss just because she can't write Spanish is not true. I don't buy it.
 
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pedrochemical

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Dude just ask any college educated person in DR from barrios to write 2 sentences in spanish. You will have the answer.
AZB


So is her degree real?
I can knock up a certificate in 10 mins to show that I have a Masters Degree in "Basket Weaving and Urban Terrorism".
I can buy one online in less time.

Did nobody check her references or ask her to write something?

Seems to me that who ever hired her is as much at fault as she is.
I mean, seriously, what kind of dumbasx would entrust any part of thier medical business to an iliterate?

Is she pretty?
 
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Acira

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AZB, we can disagree on many things, no problem at all.

My quote was just to refer to the fact that in the States many degrees are being handed out to young people who have not a clue for what they studied for (they are even not interested in the study direction) but since they have some other sports skills they walk through University without any problem at all.

A poster here said something interesting, maybe the girl indeed was to shy to write the mail herself and relied on you as a more educated man who she looked up to, to write the mail for here.
 

Bronxboy

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Also, isnt it a fact that there are many educated individuals in DR that do not make lots of money because the pay in DR sucks?

I know a few accountants, teachers, nurses, etc who make less than 500 USD and it is not because of the education they had.
 

RonS

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I'm sorry. I would never disrespect the hard working people of the Dominican Republic. But, is AZB's comment something he just made up?! I don't thing so! Yes, there are professionals and semi-professionals in third world countries who are far more intelligent and far more competent those in 'first' world countries. But, the DR could use a whole lot more educated and competent workers. In the world of this century, competitiveness, productivity, competence, are essential! Whether you agree or disagree with our buddy AZB's philosophical perspective, I think, that that is what he is talking about.
 

Africaida

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I agree with you 1000 % Ron and did not mean to imply that AZB made that story up.
What I meant was that being from a third world country was no excuse.
 
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