- Thread starter carl ericson70
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If you're a dominican man
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Its ok Forbeca, don't take it personal. I like the debate, discussion or argument as you call it 
Well I'm off to reading the post were it appears people are taking pleasure of peoples misfortune on:
The "the movie perico ripiao" post.
It seems like a sport to talk bad about certain groups of people in DR. Even some Dominican Posters are finding pleasure in it, so I'm off to save the day......hehehe
ciao
Well I'm off to reading the post were it appears people are taking pleasure of peoples misfortune on:
The "the movie perico ripiao" post.
It seems like a sport to talk bad about certain groups of people in DR. Even some Dominican Posters are finding pleasure in it, so I'm off to save the day......hehehe
ciao
Last edited:
Forbeca said:
Forbeca,
Can I ask you a question?
Okay for roughly 500 years it was instilled that whites were superiour and blacks inferior. Whites were educated, set the standards of what was beautiful, convinced the world they were the superior race while blacks were uneducated, raped, beat, told they were ugly, lazy, dumb, 2/3's of a human being- all this for 500 years, right?
Okay on Jan 1, 1863 slavery was officially ended, All blacks were freed. My question to you is what do you think happened on Jan 2, 1863? Do you think the white race embraced the black race as their equals? Do you think blacks suddenly felt strong enough and erased all the years of inferiority from their spirit?
What about Jan 2, 1923? Some 60 years later. How about then?
Or even Jan 2, 1963? Even 100 years after slavery ened officially blacks still couldn't sit in the front of a bus, drink out the same water fountain, swim in public pools...etc.
If white America today helped rebuild black America with the same ferver that white America of yesterday used to break it down, we'd have half the battle conquered.
In 1863 Blacks owned 1% of the nation's wealth. Guess how much of the nations wealth black's own today? 1%! yup one little measly percent. Most of the major companies were established when blacks couldn't even own a pot to piss in.
A few Affirmative Action programs is not going to undo hundreds of years of damage.
It's unfair for whites to tell blacks to "get over the past" when they themselves haven't gotten over it. They haven't gotten over the fact that their race is the "priviledged" race, the race that black dominican women are trying to emulate, the race that is plastered all over the media as to what is beautiful, the race that owns just about every major business in this country, if not the world.
Slavery affected both races, it's not only that black race that needs to change its mindset and get over it.
Smooches... Clip
ClippedWing
That was a very intelligent post, and one I with which I agree wholeheartedly... but if this thread doesn't find a Dominican angle soon it will be closed.
That was a very intelligent post, and one I with which I agree wholeheartedly... but if this thread doesn't find a Dominican angle soon it will be closed.
Re: ClippedWing
LOL... I threw something about Dominican women in there.
I understand that the Dominican content is light.
But I have a question before you lock it, where do Dominican women get their images of what is beautiful? Is it from American images? Or their own Dominican Culture? Where did they get the notion that curly hair and dark skin is unattractive? Is this just an on going thing in the DR or do they try to emulate what they see in the media?
Pib said:
LOL... I threw something about Dominican women in there.
I understand that the Dominican content is light.
But I have a question before you lock it, where do Dominican women get their images of what is beautiful? Is it from American images? Or their own Dominican Culture? Where did they get the notion that curly hair and dark skin is unattractive? Is this just an on going thing in the DR or do they try to emulate what they see in the media?
Larry, you are oppressing me. I think I'm going to call the NAACP and let them know about this.
Clipped: On a more serious note, IMO people in every country including the DR tend to think that what's rare is beautiful, thus since white skin, straight hair, etc are somewhat rare in the DR that's what considered beautiful. For instance here in the US I hear people say all the time "I'm so white...I need a tan...". When I go to Mexico people overthere just love my type of hair (they call it chino) because is rare.
The notion that light skin, straight "good" hair was also reinforced a lot during the Trujillo's years. As I mentioned in another thread Trujillo hated his black heritage (self hate), so new classifications were created (indio, indio claro, etc) to not be called black.
In addition I think most cultures have a certain amount of this self-loathing/hate that I just mentioned. You hear a lot of Dominicans say they don't like Merengue, bachata, etc...(the symbols that make us dominicans) while at the same time they JUST LOVE rap, american or european crapola music (Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, etc)...anything as long as it is not dominican. My two cents...Now this thread became interesting. Before this I was rooting for it to be closed.
Clipped: On a more serious note, IMO people in every country including the DR tend to think that what's rare is beautiful, thus since white skin, straight hair, etc are somewhat rare in the DR that's what considered beautiful. For instance here in the US I hear people say all the time "I'm so white...I need a tan...". When I go to Mexico people overthere just love my type of hair (they call it chino) because is rare.
The notion that light skin, straight "good" hair was also reinforced a lot during the Trujillo's years. As I mentioned in another thread Trujillo hated his black heritage (self hate), so new classifications were created (indio, indio claro, etc) to not be called black.
In addition I think most cultures have a certain amount of this self-loathing/hate that I just mentioned. You hear a lot of Dominicans say they don't like Merengue, bachata, etc...(the symbols that make us dominicans) while at the same time they JUST LOVE rap, american or european crapola music (Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, etc)...anything as long as it is not dominican. My two cents...Now this thread became interesting. Before this I was rooting for it to be closed.
Don't forget
To Sancochjoe and Clipped Wing
I'm not saying the past should be forgotten, because it can't be forgotten. Saying it should be forgotten would be similair to saying the holocaust should be forgotten. We should all learn our lessons from history. And yes you are correct in that it is a difficult subject for me as it tends to confront me with actions by my forebears that I would rather not have happenend. The thing is, it can't be unmade, what's in the past cannot be taken back.
So therefore we should look into redressing the wrongs visited upon the decendants of slaves (you're not slaves yourselves and the fact that you can voice your opinion is proof of that). To me that means going forward with this issue, educating people about their opportunities, creating equal chances. I
believe that as a result of equal opportunities each has the same chances to obtain success and wealth. To others that may mean something else..
For me it's really satisfying to see people grow in their personal development, whether they be black or white. I don't look at people as colored or non-colored.
Specifically to CW: I love women of color :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:
MD
To Sancochjoe and Clipped Wing
I'm not saying the past should be forgotten, because it can't be forgotten. Saying it should be forgotten would be similair to saying the holocaust should be forgotten. We should all learn our lessons from history. And yes you are correct in that it is a difficult subject for me as it tends to confront me with actions by my forebears that I would rather not have happenend. The thing is, it can't be unmade, what's in the past cannot be taken back.
So therefore we should look into redressing the wrongs visited upon the decendants of slaves (you're not slaves yourselves and the fact that you can voice your opinion is proof of that). To me that means going forward with this issue, educating people about their opportunities, creating equal chances. I
believe that as a result of equal opportunities each has the same chances to obtain success and wealth. To others that may mean something else..
For me it's really satisfying to see people grow in their personal development, whether they be black or white. I don't look at people as colored or non-colored.
Specifically to CW: I love women of color :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:
MD
MD,
So this is what MD is saying CW. All you black folks need to get over it and stop crying, and oh by the way, CW I would love to bang the black living hell out of you.
I just thought I would translate
So this is what MD is saying CW. All you black folks need to get over it and stop crying, and oh by the way, CW I would love to bang the black living hell out of you.
I just thought I would translate
Re: Oops I mixed X and Y
Slavery has occured throughout human history and a wide variety of groups have been enslavers and enslaved,however, african slavery was the grandest of all.Case in point as fabled as the arab slave trade in africans(thousands of years old) might be,there's only approx 4 million people of african derivation in arab countries,yet there's close to 300 million in the americas.So.........
Carl e.
MerengueDutchie said:
Slavery has occured throughout human history and a wide variety of groups have been enslavers and enslaved,however, african slavery was the grandest of all.Case in point as fabled as the arab slave trade in africans(thousands of years old) might be,there's only approx 4 million people of african derivation in arab countries,yet there's close to 300 million in the americas.So.........
Carl e.
to sancochojoe
LOL! You're so funny!
I am glad we finally understand each other!
Are there any pictures of CW around?
MD:bandit:
LOL! You're so funny!
I am glad we finally understand each other!
Are there any pictures of CW around?
MD:bandit:
Clipped Wing - the overwhelming majority of idealised images of women, men and children in the DR are of white or at the very least light-skinned people. I include all types of advertising, photos in newspapers to illustrate lifestyle features.
It goes well beyond simply focusing on the exotic. If that were the case ALL images in countries where people are predominantly white would be of Africans and Asians and that is patently not the case.
The message it sends to people about what is beautiful is unambiguous!
Chiri
It goes well beyond simply focusing on the exotic. If that were the case ALL images in countries where people are predominantly white would be of Africans and Asians and that is patently not the case.
The message it sends to people about what is beautiful is unambiguous!
Chiri
racism
Please correct me if I am misreading these posts (as I am sure you will!), but I get the impression that if one is of "mixed" blood or one of "color" it is perfectly alright to be a racist, but if one is of "white" European blood it is not acceptable to even speak on the issue of race or racial relationships. Is this a correct assumption based on the posts by many who are continually putting down today's whites for their ancestors' behaviors, or have I missed the point?
Please correct me if I am misreading these posts (as I am sure you will!), but I get the impression that if one is of "mixed" blood or one of "color" it is perfectly alright to be a racist, but if one is of "white" European blood it is not acceptable to even speak on the issue of race or racial relationships. Is this a correct assumption based on the posts by many who are continually putting down today's whites for their ancestors' behaviors, or have I missed the point?
Lol
Wow.........I thought for sure that this topic would be closed by now,since it has taken a turn for the"non dominican".Which I knew it would.
Wow.........I thought for sure that this topic would be closed by now,since it has taken a turn for the"non dominican".Which I knew it would.
Re: Lol
Maybe Carl because name calling has appeared to cease for now, and the debate appears to be stimulating even though I think your post before the last was a bunch of crap
oops I forgot.....VIVA La Republica Dominicana!!!!
carl ericson70 said:
Maybe Carl because name calling has appeared to cease for now, and the debate appears to be stimulating even though I think your post before the last was a bunch of crap
oops I forgot.....VIVA La Republica Dominicana!!!!
Lets do some stimulating
Well it appears that both sides of the debate feel that something has come out of this discussion. I agree with Sancochjoe.
Maybe it is difficult for people who don't know each other to have a meaningfull discussing about these sensitive issues, but a little good faith goes a long way. It appears that both sides have actually let down some of their guard on this subject.
For myself (and I don't pretend to speak for anybody else on this) it is a difficult subject because:
1) Slavery is never a good thing, but was viewed as more acceptable then than it is now and I find it difficult to judge the past with my current standards.
2) Some of the bad guys were my own ancestors. The difficulty is that even when I feel bad about what they did, I cannot change that past. I can only go forward in a positive way and try to be sensitive about this. I feel that is difficult enough, for me at least.
3) Some of the victims were the ancestors of some of you. I understand that that can breed resentment towards what was done in the past. I can also understand that that breeds resentment towards me as a white person of slavetrading ancestry. But I don't feel that I as a person would deserve that resentment.
4) I personally have very good and very bad experiences with people of all colors. When I analyse these individual experiences, rarely do I find them the result of color differences, but most of the time from personality congruences or differences.
Sancochojoe and Clipped Wing, I invite you to share your views on your feelings and on going forward...
Kind regards,
MD
Well it appears that both sides of the debate feel that something has come out of this discussion. I agree with Sancochjoe.
Maybe it is difficult for people who don't know each other to have a meaningfull discussing about these sensitive issues, but a little good faith goes a long way. It appears that both sides have actually let down some of their guard on this subject.
For myself (and I don't pretend to speak for anybody else on this) it is a difficult subject because:
1) Slavery is never a good thing, but was viewed as more acceptable then than it is now and I find it difficult to judge the past with my current standards.
2) Some of the bad guys were my own ancestors. The difficulty is that even when I feel bad about what they did, I cannot change that past. I can only go forward in a positive way and try to be sensitive about this. I feel that is difficult enough, for me at least.
3) Some of the victims were the ancestors of some of you. I understand that that can breed resentment towards what was done in the past. I can also understand that that breeds resentment towards me as a white person of slavetrading ancestry. But I don't feel that I as a person would deserve that resentment.
4) I personally have very good and very bad experiences with people of all colors. When I analyse these individual experiences, rarely do I find them the result of color differences, but most of the time from personality congruences or differences.
Sancochojoe and Clipped Wing, I invite you to share your views on your feelings and on going forward...
Kind regards,
MD
My motivation at present is changing perception. That seems to linger on and on. Its hard to compete with what is portrayed on TV and the News day after day, to the point I don't watch it, because it portrays only one side of the picture Just recently an overweight fat Black guy who had PCP(drugs) in his system and diied while being beat to death by some cops. Many people in the white community said it was justified because the guy lunged at the cops and of course the black community said it was excesive force.
Maybe the guy did deserve to get whiped on, but to die at the hand of the cops that was to much. These guys pounded him 40 times until he died. This was plastered all over the national news last week and it leaves much for debate, The first thing my wife said was, "what is wrong with this country"
Yet this past tuesday it was only posted in AP news never on national TV, a father and son (white) baracaded themselves in their home for some reason surrounded by 100 cops and they killed 2 cops in the shootout. They never got killed and were hancuffed and escorted out. The wife was held up in a hotel down the road threathing to kill anyone who hurt her family.
This did not make it national, never was filmed, nothing. And this baracade lasted for over 11 hours.
So this is one small example of perception and the power of the media. It just seems like a major effort to make black people(men in particular) look really bad. So changing perception is like fighting and uphill battle. I understand that most of the time it is a doublestandard, and things are just too plain obvious.
The problem that people of color face is that when ever a black guy commits a crime, it seems whites looks at him as if he represents the whole black community. Yet when a white person commits a serious crime, he is individualized and no negative perception is put on the whole white community.
So as an individual, I try to change perception. Its very hard to do, but thats all I can do. One thing I hate is when you walk up to a white guy, why does he always want to call you bro. The white guy in front of you he says "hi, how are you, yet when he confronts you he says "whats up bro" I hate that. I would prefer you say hi, how are you. Maybe i'm too sensitive about it, but other black guys that I know who are professionals say the same thing. Its like you get pigeion holed into this one perception of all people of color and you must communicate with them just one way.
My domininican friend thought it would not apply to them when they came to the states. They got a rude awaking. I explained to them, you are a black guy that speaks spanish, but you are still a black guy. They would complain about cops and complain about how people talked to them, until they found out they were spanish. Even how some of the fare skinned latinos would treat them was an eye opener.
Maybe the guy did deserve to get whiped on, but to die at the hand of the cops that was to much. These guys pounded him 40 times until he died. This was plastered all over the national news last week and it leaves much for debate, The first thing my wife said was, "what is wrong with this country"
Yet this past tuesday it was only posted in AP news never on national TV, a father and son (white) baracaded themselves in their home for some reason surrounded by 100 cops and they killed 2 cops in the shootout. They never got killed and were hancuffed and escorted out. The wife was held up in a hotel down the road threathing to kill anyone who hurt her family.
This did not make it national, never was filmed, nothing. And this baracade lasted for over 11 hours.
So this is one small example of perception and the power of the media. It just seems like a major effort to make black people(men in particular) look really bad. So changing perception is like fighting and uphill battle. I understand that most of the time it is a doublestandard, and things are just too plain obvious.
The problem that people of color face is that when ever a black guy commits a crime, it seems whites looks at him as if he represents the whole black community. Yet when a white person commits a serious crime, he is individualized and no negative perception is put on the whole white community.
So as an individual, I try to change perception. Its very hard to do, but thats all I can do. One thing I hate is when you walk up to a white guy, why does he always want to call you bro. The white guy in front of you he says "hi, how are you, yet when he confronts you he says "whats up bro" I hate that. I would prefer you say hi, how are you. Maybe i'm too sensitive about it, but other black guys that I know who are professionals say the same thing. Its like you get pigeion holed into this one perception of all people of color and you must communicate with them just one way.
My domininican friend thought it would not apply to them when they came to the states. They got a rude awaking. I explained to them, you are a black guy that speaks spanish, but you are still a black guy. They would complain about cops and complain about how people talked to them, until they found out they were spanish. Even how some of the fare skinned latinos would treat them was an eye opener.
thanks
for the honest reply
It does help in understanding were you're coming from.
I found what you said about the media exposure, which very much impacts the view that a lot of people have, since most don't see the story behind the story, very significant.
Even though I also saw the story regarding the colored guy who got knocked down and died, I guess it never really crossed my mind to have that impact on my behaviour towards colored people. My only thought was like, damn didn't they learn anything yet from the past? You're not supposed to hit guys until they die making an arrest. Maybe its because I'm used to interacting with different people on a daily basis.
Regarding the behaviour towards (groups of) people the following. If you meet with someone for the first time and you are unsure of how to behave towards them people sometimes feel they have to reassure the other. Personally I would always keep a little distance and tend to be more formal at such first meetings. You can always become more informal or adjust towards more familiarity later. It is difficult or impossible the other way around.
But I must admit it sometimes is nice to behave a little different from my usual behaviour and slip into the 'whassup mi nigga mode'. But I only do that with guys I know and who exhibit this behaviour towards me and other people.
Well thanks for being honest and keep on fighting the good fight!
At least I now know better where you're coming from and I like to think that you know a bit more about where I'm coming from as well. We're not so different at all...
Kind regards,
MD
for the honest reply
It does help in understanding were you're coming from.
I found what you said about the media exposure, which very much impacts the view that a lot of people have, since most don't see the story behind the story, very significant.
Even though I also saw the story regarding the colored guy who got knocked down and died, I guess it never really crossed my mind to have that impact on my behaviour towards colored people. My only thought was like, damn didn't they learn anything yet from the past? You're not supposed to hit guys until they die making an arrest. Maybe its because I'm used to interacting with different people on a daily basis.
Regarding the behaviour towards (groups of) people the following. If you meet with someone for the first time and you are unsure of how to behave towards them people sometimes feel they have to reassure the other. Personally I would always keep a little distance and tend to be more formal at such first meetings. You can always become more informal or adjust towards more familiarity later. It is difficult or impossible the other way around.
But I must admit it sometimes is nice to behave a little different from my usual behaviour and slip into the 'whassup mi nigga mode'. But I only do that with guys I know and who exhibit this behaviour towards me and other people.
Well thanks for being honest and keep on fighting the good fight!
At least I now know better where you're coming from and I like to think that you know a bit more about where I'm coming from as well. We're not so different at all...
Kind regards,
MD
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