Imigration and Depotation: What does the government really want?

[johne]

Last week a Haitian that works with me took four days off and went to Haiti to pick up his girlfriend. They returned to live in the same community as before. Certainly far below any level of poverty that a dominican could live in. He is back to work and she is attempting to sell some products that he buys in the capital or buys from me. (She doesn't speak spanish which was a first for me.Never met a Haitian that didnt speak spanish). Life seems to be "kinds normal" now but very difficult as you can imagine.

We have 11 million people in the DR. We have 500,000 Haitians in the DR.My questions for discussion are:
1. Is this situation "we need them to do the work that others don't want" similar in many respects to Mexico and U.S.?
2. Are the "round-ups" an attempt to show the government is serious about deportations in spite of the fact it is quite easy for a Haitian to enter the DR?
3. And finally, the question that I ask "What does the government (of the DR) REALLY want?

 

[johne]

Title should read; WHAT DOES THE GOVERNMENT REALLY WANT.

 

[bob saunders]

Good questions though I think you are off on your numbers. I believe there are way more than 500,000 Haitians in the DR. There are as many Haitian children in some schools as Dominicans.

 

[johne]

Good questions though I think you are off on your numbers. I believe there are way more than 500,000 Haitians in the DR. There are as many Haitian children in some schools as Dominicans.

Yes, my number is off the internet. How can that number be correct when no real data is collected in or out? LOL

 

[drstock]

Last week a Haitian that works with me took four days off and went to Haiti to pick up his girlfriend. They returned to live in the same community as before. Certainly far below any level of poverty that a dominican could live in. He is back to work and she is attempting to sell some products that he buys in the capital or buys from me. (She doesn't speak spanish which was a first for me.Never met a Haitian that didnt speak spanish). Life seems to be "kinds normal" now but very difficult as you can imagine.

We have 11 million people in the DR. We have 500,000 Haitians in the DR.My questions for discussion are:
1. Is this situation "we need them to do the work that others don't want" similar in many respects to Mexico and U.S.?
2. Are the "round-ups" an attempt to show the government is serious about deportations in spite of the fact it is quite easy for a Haitian to enter the DR?
3. And finally, the question that I ask "What does the government (of the DR) REALLY want?

The answers of your questions (in my opinion):
1. Yes, it's very similar. Most Dominicans don't want to work on a dangerous building site in the boiling sun all day. Haitians do it, along with collecting garbage, working if fields etc. It's not only the same in Mexico/US, but also in countries like the UK where they kicked out many East Europeans after Brexit and now have labour shortages.
2. The government may be quite serious about the deportations, but all Haitians know that with sufficient funds you will be released and allowed to return, so for the Police and Immigration it's just a big pay-day.
3. I think that with all the problems now in Haiti, the DR government doesn't want the lawless state spilling over the border. They may or may not be successful in that.

 

[AlterEgo]

Good questions though I think you are off on your numbers. I believe there are way more than 500,000 Haitians in the DR. There are as many Haitian children in some schools as Dominicans.

Many Dominicans say there are over 4 million Haitians here.

 

[aarhus]

Many Dominicans say there are over 4 million Haitians here.

500,000 or 4 million. What about around 2 million. I am in Las Terrenas now. Many here.

 

[johne]

Well it's hard to keep count of a turnstile in motion. There are many people (in the situation) that are glad that there is no way to have an accurate count. That's a bad thing and this story will not have a happy ending.

 

[NALs]

1. Yes, it's very similar. Most Dominicans don't want to work on a dangerous building site in the boiling sun all day. Haitians do it, along with collecting garbage, working if fields etc. It's not only the same in Mexico/US, but also in countries like the UK where they kicked out many East Europeans after Brexit and now have labour shortages.

When Odebrecht was around, all construction project that involved them had mostly Dominican workers and it was very obvious their construction sites were not as messy and as dusty as those of other companies. Plus workers all had helmets and the proper gear for their safety. Care to explain why they were able to do thaf? I thought "most Dominicans don't want to work on a dangerous building site in the boiling sun all day."

Better working conditions, better pay, benefits...

Until about 30 to 40 years ago, most construction workers in the DR were Dominicans. You can still see many of the buildings/highways/etc they created as the country is filled mostly with that infrastructure. Last I checked, the sun was just as strong then as it's now and just as strong in Odebrecht construction sites as in the other ones, often times they were side-by-side.

 

[johne]

When Odebrecht was around, all construction project that involved them had mostly Dominican workers and it was very obvious their construction sites were not as messy and as dusty as those of other companies. Plus workers all had helmets and the proper gear for their safety. Care to explain why they were able to do thaf? I thought "most Dominicans don't want to work on a dangerous building site in the boiling sun all day."

Better working conditions, better pay, benefits...

Until about 30 to 40 years ago, most construction workers in the DR were Dominicans. You can still see many of the buildings/highways/etc they created as the country is filled mostly with that infrastructure. Last I checked, the sun was just as strong then as it's now and just as strong in Odebrecht construction sites as in the other ones, often times they were side-by-side.

Good historical information. Now the question is: How do you change the culture? How do you get the 18-40 year old group to work like history has shown us is possible? Does that work ethic exist or can be re-kindled? What do employers need to pay? Or give as benefits? Would it take removing every Haitian from the DR? The construction industry in NYC did it by the force of Unions. That's about three generations away for the DR if you started tomorrow.

So, I ask again...does the government of the DR really, really, want to deport Haitians?

 

[aarhus]

Maybe AlterEgo 4 million number could be correct if you include second generation. Born here but still considered Haitian.

 

[Seamonkey]

I can't speak about any other town, but here in Sosua, the Haitian are picked up and for 10,000 pesos they are let go without going to jail or being brought anywhere. If they don't pay, they are brought to the border and then reenter and make their way back to Sosua. It's a merry-go-round and complete extortion by Policia Nacional and Cestur. The government is not serious about getting rid of them. It's a cash cow.

 

[johne]

I can't speak about any other town, but here in Sosua, the Haitian are picked up and for 10,000 pesos they are let go without going to jail or being brought anywhere. If they don't pay, they are brought to the border and then reenter and make their way back to Sosua. It's a merry-go-round and complete extortion by Policia Nacional and Cestur. The government is not serious about getting rid of them. It's a cash cow.

A cash cow for government?? Como??

 

[CristoRey]

We have 11 million people in the DR. We have 500,000 Haitians in the DR.My questions for discussion are:
1. Is this situation "we need them to do the work that others don't want" similar in many respects to Mexico and U.S.?
2. Are the "round-ups" an attempt to show the government is serious about deportations in spite of the fact it is quite easy for a Haitian to enter the DR?
3. And finally, the question that I ask "What does the government (of the DR) REALLY want?

The USA used to need them folks.
Not so much now a days as we have more than enough uneducated low skilled illegal immigrants in the country.

The topic of Haitian immigration be it legal or illegal in this country is like pandora's box. What the government really wants and what the international organizations (IMF, IDB) who cut the checks want are not the same. They are constantly twisting the Dominican government's are while at the same time pressuring them to allow more Haitians into the country. Most recently under the guise of "human trafficking" which several people are standing up/ speaking out against.

Abel: bill shows the feeling of treason against the homeland that lives in the Palace

<p>Abel Martínez classified as “high treason” the comprehensive bill on human trafficking, exploitation, and smuggling of migrants quietly deposited last December by the Executive Branch in the National Congress. In this sense, the presidential candidate of the Dominican Liberation Party assured...

dominicantoday.com

 

[aarhus]

A cash cow for government?? Como??

it doesn’t sound like it’s the government. More like kickbacks to people working in government if it is like Seamonkey describes.

 

[JD Jones]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624105564203515904

 

[johne]

The USA used to need them folks.
Not so much now a days as we have more than enough uneducated low skilled illegal immigrants in the country.

The topic of Haitian immigration be it legal or illegal in this country is like pandora's box. What the government really wants and what the international organizations (IMF, IDB) who cut the checks want are not the same. They are constantly twisting the Dominican government's are while at the same time pressuring them to allow more Haitians into the country. Most recently under the guise of "human trafficking" which several people are standing up/ speaking out against.

Abel: bill shows the feeling of treason against the homeland that lives in the Palace

<p>Abel Martínez classified as “high treason” the comprehensive bill on human trafficking, exploitation, and smuggling of migrants quietly deposited last December by the Executive Branch in the National Congress. In this sense, the presidential candidate of the Dominican Liberation Party assured...

dominicantoday.com

Yes.Truth. Follow the dealer in the3 card monte game. Impossible.Legal not legal? No importa. Dealer wins.

 

[nanita]

I suppose the Dominican government is quite pleased that the internal conflicts between Haitians and Dominicans distract people from the horrible corruption, incompetence and nepotism that exist at that level. Divide and conquer.
Sad to see poor, uneducated Dominicans rage against even poorer and more desperate Haitians. While those in power feed like pigs at the trough. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NALs]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624105564203515904

This one too was published today. Migración doing an operation in Cap Cana (catching illegals), but the Haitians are proving to be rebellious. The Dominican military might have to get involve to re-establish order, especially in a tourist zone.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624056500535656449

 

[CristoRey]

This one too was published today. Migración doing an operation in Cap Cana (catching illegals), but the Haitians are proving to be rebellious. The Dominican military might have to get involve to re-establish order, especially in a tourist zone.

Migracion showed a lot of restraint. I've no doubt they'll return soon backed by the military just as they did a few weeks ago. Sadly this makes all Haitians living/ working over there look bad. Everyone in these videos better find a rock big enough to hind under as Luis made it very clear recently he will not tolerate this type of behavior.
Time to break out the popcorn.