Is it right? Is it wrong?

[Marianopolita]

Spanish speakers, linguists, grammarians debate this at a high level.

What about when they are your classmates or peers?


Here is a brief but interesting commentary here:

Puerto Rican Spanish: Grammatically Correct Yet Oh-So-Wrong

A look at three Puerto Rican Spanish words that are Spanglish, but somehow still grammatically correct!

indecisivetraveler.com

 

[cavok]

That gets into the debate of whether or not words like "parquear" are correct or not, doesn't it? There are a lot of words that I've heard, especially in Miami, where "ar" is just added to an English verb to make it a Spanish one. Above my pay grade to judge that.

 

[Lucifer]

Dominicans are not far behind.

Baquiar, as in back-up:
<<Onguito, ¿quién te baquió al principio de tu carrera?>>

Hustle: josear; hustler: joseador
<<Dotol Nastra es un joseador; el tíguere se la busca>>.

I don't have an issue when Joe Public utters those words; it's the journalists and communicators who incur my wrath.

 

[Marianopolita]

That gets into the debate of whether or not words like "parquear" are correct or not, doesn't it? There are a lot of words that I've heard, especially in Miami, where "ar" is just added to an English verb to make it a Spanish one. Above my pay grade to judge that.

That is the grammar rule though. Any new verb in the language derived from a foreign word and in most cases English falls into the AR verb group category. That is why you hear that but it is done instinctively since most people speak and have no clue about Spanish grammar rules.

 

[Marianopolita]

Referring back to the article, I have been in university classroom discussions (a long time ago) and peer group discussions at work about Spanish grammar and word usage. Oh boy it can cause a rift. Some people take it personally and have no understanding of how to exchange ideas or points of view.

Some grammar points heard in the spoken language are just wrong and others are regional. I think the issue or shock is when some people realize how incorrect their speech is in those discussions and they feel targeted or embarrassed. However, friendly and informative discussions shouldn’t have that intent. In the article, the blogger mentions this that in those classroom debates the student from PR would remain silent which indicated that whatever she said would definitely be wrong.

In my observation, and I will say I do not have enough interaction with Puerto Ricans ( I wish I did ) their Spanish definitely has some quirks. All I have heard mostly are generalizations how PR Spanish is just mostly English words and that in PR many people speak English. Well, the latter is not true. In Puerto Rico, you better speak Spanish or else you are going have problems. I think their is a difference between the Spanish spoken in PR vs. the Spanish spoken by Puerto Ricans in New York. I think the word janguear originated there as well as words you hear like el rufo, el building etc. I saw a sign on a building in Brooklyn many years ago that said: No jangueen. That was the first time I had seen the word janguear.

I have noticed grammar nuances from Puerto Ricans that are really far off the standard but a normal speech pattern for a Puerto Rican. The linguistic history gives a lot of insight to the ‘why’. The more I learn the less it surprises me.

 

[Marianopolita]

Dominicans are not far behind.

Baquiar, as in back-up:
<<Onguito, ¿quién te baquió al principio de tu carrera?>>

Hustle: josear; hustler: joseador
<<Dotol Nastra es un joseador; el tíguere se la busca>>.

I don't have an issue when Joe Public utters those words; it's the journalists and communicators who incur my wrath.

What I don’t like is the average Dominican in the DR does not speak nor have any knowledge of English but uses English words or butchered versions as though they are correct. It irks me because if you try to tell them what they are saying makes no sense then they tell you that you don’t speak English.

The worse in my experience are the hotel workers (front desk) and resort hotel who claim they speak English 👎I watch them interact with people and their English skills are poor but it never fails. They know those invented words derived from English but can’t use or understand real English vocabulary properly.

Your example of baquiar is crazy…..

 

[Marianopolita]

Referring back to the article, I have been in university classroom discussions (a long time ago) and peer group discussions at work about Spanish grammar and word usage. Oh boy it can cause a rift. Some people take it personally and have no understanding of how to exchange ideas or points of view.

Some grammar points heard in the spoken language are just wrong and others are regional. I think the issue or shock is when some people realize how incorrect their speech is in those discussions and they feel targeted or embarrassed. However, friendly and informative discussions shouldn’t have that intent. In the article, the blogger mentions this that in those classroom debates the student from PR would remain silent which indicated that whatever she said would definitely be wrong.

In my observation, and I will say I do not have enough interaction with Puerto Ricans ( I wish I did ) their Spanish definitely has some quirks. All I have heard mostly are generalizations how PR Spanish is just mostly English words and that in PR many people speak English. Well, the latter is not true. In Puerto Rico, you better speak Spanish or else you are going have problems. I think their is a difference between the Spanish spoken in PR vs. the Spanish spoken by Puerto Ricans in New York. I think the word janguear originated there as well as words you hear like el rufo, el building etc. I saw a sign on a building in Brooklyn many years ago that said: No jangueen. That was the first time I had seen the word janguear.

I have noticed grammar nuances from Puerto Ricans that are really far off the standard but a normal speech pattern for a Puerto Rican. The linguistic history gives a lot of insight to the ‘why’. The more I learn the less it surprises me.

 

[Marianopolita]

See above in bold….Correction: there is….

As well, in linguistic classification there is a category called El español de los Estados Unidos. Believe it or not. It is has reached that point. The Spanish spoken in the US has its own category because of all the Spanish variations + English. So why only critique PR Spanish? US Spanish is full of anglicismos, calques, borrowed words and Spanglish. An example and one that I always notice that people say in the US- to apply for a job, aplicar para un puesto de trabajo when it should be postularse. As well, during the US elections you hear a lot of candidates saying correr para presidente….ridiculous!

 

[Lucifer]

See above in bold….Correction: there is….

As well, in linguistic classification there is a category called El español de los Estados Unidos. Believe it or not. It is has reached that point. The Spanish spoken in the US has its own category because of all the Spanish variations + English. So why only critique PR Spanish? US Spanish is full of anglicismos, calques, borrowed words and Spanglish. An example and one that I always notice that people say in the US- to apply for a job, aplicar para un puesto de trabajo when it should be postularse. As well, during the US elections you hear a lot of candidates saying correr para presidente….ridiculous!

Yes. Indeed!

Aplicar para un trabajo en la factoría, donde voy a vacumiar la carpeta y limpiar el elevador.

 

[Lucifer]

What I don’t like is the average Dominican in the DR does not speak nor have any knowledge of English but uses English words or butchered versions as though they are correct. It irks me because if you try to tell them what they are saying makes no sense then they tell you that you don’t speak English.

The worse in my experience are the hotel workers (front desk) and resort hotel who claim they speak English 👎I watch them interact with people and their English skills are poor but it never fails. They know those invented words derived from English but can’t use or understand real English vocabulary properly.

Your example of baquiar is crazy…..

Dominican celebrities are the worst offenders, in my opinion. In their effort to impress the audience, they usually come up shot and utterly ridiculous.
I have many, many examples of TV folks mispronouncing English words and names.

During the national debate regarding abortion, some quoted MIT linguist, Noam Chomsky, BUT REFER TO HIM AS "NO-AN Chunky".
That irritates to no end.

 

[Marianopolita]

Yes. Indeed!

Aplicar para un trabajo en la factoría, donde voy a vacumiar la carpeta y limpiar el elevador.

Wow….that is exactly what one would hear in the US and it sounds like US Spanish 👎 Then people critique PR.

All those words you bolded are wrong….can carpeta for carpet be anymore incorrect and ridiculous sounding?

That phrase is a perfect example of what I mentioned about calques and anglicismos in US Spanish.

 

[Marianopolita]

Dominican celebrities are the worst offenders, in my opinion. In their effort to impress the audience, they usually come up shot and utterly ridiculous.
I have many, many examples of TV folks mispronouncing English words and names.

During the national debate regarding abortion, some quoted MIT linguist, Noam Chomsky, BUT REFER TO HIM AS "NO-AN Chunky".
That irritates to no end.

Dominican celebrities are the worst offenders, in my opinion. In their effort to impress the audience, they usually come up shot and utterly ridiculous.
I have many, many examples of TV folks mispronouncing English words and names.

During the national debate regarding abortion, some quoted MIT linguist, Noam Chomsky, BUT REFER TO HIM AS "NO-AN Chunky".
That irritates to no end.

Yes, I have heard some blunders as well and they sound like they are butchering the language. However, keep in mind their audience is majority Dominican like them. They will not know nor be phased by the glaring mispronunciation of English words and names.

 

[Joseph NY2STI]

In NY, the guy who tries to rob a store is called a "holupero" by some. (hold up).

Not Spanish related, but linguistic nonetheless: the Italian "baccauzo" (Bah-Cow-Zo). Tenements didn't have individual bathrooms in the apartments, but rather a latrine in the rear yard. The "back house".

 

[NanSanPedro]

Wow….that is exactly what one would hear in the US and it sounds like US Spanish 👎 Then people critique PR.

All those words you bolded are wrong….can carpeta for carpet be anymore incorrect and ridiculous sounding?

That phrase is a perfect example of what I mentioned about calques and anglicismos in US Spanish.

I actually learned that carpeta is a false cognate a long time ago in baby Spanish. Interesting and surprising that it's used in that context.

 

[Marianopolita]

In NY, the guy who tries to rob a store is called a "holupero" by some. (hold up).

Not Spanish related, but linguistic nonetheless: the Italian "baccauzo" (Bah-Cow-Zo). Tenements didn't have individual bathrooms in the apartments, but rather a latrine in the rear yard. The "back house".

Unbelievable… these words inventions are crazy IMO. However, many are not considered official Spanish words and not approved by the RAE. Thank goodness there is a governing body to keep the language universal. Regionalisms will always exist but these made up words from English are a whole different hurdle.

 

[Marianopolita]

I actually learned that carpeta is a false cognate a long time ago in baby Spanish. Interesting and surprising that it's used in that context.

Yes, it’s a classic on the list of false cognates BUT used in the US nevertheless and by Spanish speakers to make it more ridiculous. Why would a Spanish speaker from any Latin American country start using carpeta instead of alfombra? My guess is to sound local and blend in. IMO, it’s comparable to if someone starts using the word embarazada to express embarrassment and a male to make even more outrageous 🤔

 

[NanSanPedro]

Yes, it’s a classic on the list of false cognates BUT used in the US nevertheless and by Spanish speakers to make it more ridiculous. Why would a Spanish speaker from any Latin American country start using carpeta instead of alfombra? My guess is to sound local and blend in. IMO, it’s comparable to if someone starts using the word embarazada to express embarrassment and a male to make even more outrageous 🤔

I could make this thread real political if I so choose. But I won't. 😂😂

 

[Marianopolita]

Por favor no lo hagas…. Vamos bien hasta ahora.

 

[flyinroom]

These are all examples of anglicisms.
There are many communities/countries where Anglophones may not be in the majority but, they wield a considerable amount of influence and or power.
It is only natural that words and phrases will be picked up and intermingled.
It can be amusing but, there are many purists who do not take kindly to them.
lol.
In my little neck of the woods anglicisms duke it out with francicisms on a daily basis.
They are so prevalent they are second nature.
And to many (myself included)...much loved.
English is the so-called global language so it stands to reason that there would be more borrowing from it than any other language.
Is it right?
Is it wrong?
It's both.
Purists would disagree vehemently and I would sympathize with their point of view.
But you can't fight city hall.
And back in the day it was the English language that borrowed heavily from the Spanish language.
So hey.
What goes around comes around.
We are all creatures of our environment.
And time marches on.
Even the humble monarch butterfly is not immune.

 

[Lucifer]

Yes, it’s a classic on the list of false cognates BUT used in the US nevertheless and by Spanish speakers to make it more ridiculous. Why would a Spanish speaker from any Latin American country start using carpeta instead of alfombra? My guess is to sound local and blend in. IMO, it’s comparable to if someone starts using the word embarazada to express embarrassment and a male to make even more outrageous 🤔

A doctor once told me about a conference he attended in Mexico, where one of his male colleagues addressed the audience by saying that he was "muy embarazado de su español".