OK, and just to prove my point, do you declare the income you make to DGII and pay ITBIS? And do you pay a Propina Legal to the person who cleans the apartments between rentals - assuming that's not you?
- Thread starter TropicalPaul
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Is this a terrible year so far for tourism?
OK, and just to prove my point, do you declare the income you make to DGII and pay ITBIS? And do you pay a Propina Legal to the person who cleans the apartments between rentals - assuming that's not you?
I certainly agree that Air BnB has made travel much more affordable and accessible and enjoyable for the vast majority of travelers. Here in the USA even a Motel Six will run close to $100 a night. I remember trying to find a place to stay in Boston and they ran closer to $400 a night. Most of the AirBnB's are "verified" by the reviews from other customers. Yes, certainly, it is true that the government may not collect the taxes from them but certainly they could, could they not? When I was first in LT, most of the hotels did not pay the taxes (and/or kept double books0 and periodically the fiscal would come up and examine their books, close them down, collect the taxes. Yes, there may be a lot of rooms, but surely it would not be beyond the capacity of the government to levy the regular ITIBIS and Propina on them and set about collecting them? As in perhaps having to have a license of some sort even to be registered on Air BnB or something like that? Something along the lines of a Health Inspection which most of the restaurants in NYC have to display?
When the hotels were closing and lots of folks in LT were buying condos there, the same cry went up - about the locals who were going to be unemployed, etc.. and how bad it was for the economy. http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/12/dominican-republic-carving-up-paradise/
We laughed when they real estate developers were building places out in Playa Coson - which was an area plagued with mosquitos, and lined by a beach with a rip-tide dangerous beach. Last night, on "House Hunters International" I watched a realtor show a couple a condo there for $375k! (and marvel at that "tourists" who seem to come down for a vacation, fall in love, and decide to drop such a lot of money with knowing so little about the place). Many of the homes that are for rent in LT are for rent via French listings/ VBRO etc... And - yes - the money never touches the ground except for the manager and the cleaners.
But I am think that perhaps the pressure on the hotel industry and perhaps the government from AirBnB might be a good thing (and well, best get used to it) - Does no one ever question the ITIBIS? The Propina (which certainly does not get to the employees at the resorts)? It would be one thing if the added prices on the tourist items (restaurants, taxable groceries) actually went to fund some things for the people like education - rather than in to a bloated government. (when I was there, the DR had more people in its diplomatic corps than Brazil)
When I stay at a hotel, I do so because I expect there to be a restaurant/bar in place, room service, a concierge, valet parking, perhaps a pool/gym - things that an Air BnB will not provide. But an AirBnB will make a trip for 4 or 6 people possible when the cost of a hotel is prohibitive .. and those folks will certainly go out to eat, or buy groceries,.. contribute in some way to the economy.
I watched the Bahia Principe build their hotel in Portillo - taking it over from a lovely Dominican family who had run an exquisite little A-I which cost about $60 a night. The Bahia people brought in a crew of Haitians whom they housed on site - and by housed I mean the Haitians slept on the ground with no shelter until they built it, no lavatories, no food supplied ( a group of Dominicans made a lot of money setting up food trucks to sell the Haitians their meals) The Haitians reported that they were not paid until the end of the month as lots of them would leave after the first month. There were pickets in place from the local Dominican workers who did not get the construction Jobs because they would not work for under 600 pesos a day. So I have absolutely no sort of sympathy for the big hotel owners - I know the salaries that they pay to the locals and how their hotels were built.
When the hotels were closing and lots of folks in LT were buying condos there, the same cry went up - about the locals who were going to be unemployed, etc.. and how bad it was for the economy. http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/12/dominican-republic-carving-up-paradise/
We laughed when they real estate developers were building places out in Playa Coson - which was an area plagued with mosquitos, and lined by a beach with a rip-tide dangerous beach. Last night, on "House Hunters International" I watched a realtor show a couple a condo there for $375k! (and marvel at that "tourists" who seem to come down for a vacation, fall in love, and decide to drop such a lot of money with knowing so little about the place). Many of the homes that are for rent in LT are for rent via French listings/ VBRO etc... And - yes - the money never touches the ground except for the manager and the cleaners.
But I am think that perhaps the pressure on the hotel industry and perhaps the government from AirBnB might be a good thing (and well, best get used to it) - Does no one ever question the ITIBIS? The Propina (which certainly does not get to the employees at the resorts)? It would be one thing if the added prices on the tourist items (restaurants, taxable groceries) actually went to fund some things for the people like education - rather than in to a bloated government. (when I was there, the DR had more people in its diplomatic corps than Brazil)
When I stay at a hotel, I do so because I expect there to be a restaurant/bar in place, room service, a concierge, valet parking, perhaps a pool/gym - things that an Air BnB will not provide. But an AirBnB will make a trip for 4 or 6 people possible when the cost of a hotel is prohibitive .. and those folks will certainly go out to eat, or buy groceries,.. contribute in some way to the economy.
I watched the Bahia Principe build their hotel in Portillo - taking it over from a lovely Dominican family who had run an exquisite little A-I which cost about $60 a night. The Bahia people brought in a crew of Haitians whom they housed on site - and by housed I mean the Haitians slept on the ground with no shelter until they built it, no lavatories, no food supplied ( a group of Dominicans made a lot of money setting up food trucks to sell the Haitians their meals) The Haitians reported that they were not paid until the end of the month as lots of them would leave after the first month. There were pickets in place from the local Dominican workers who did not get the construction Jobs because they would not work for under 600 pesos a day. So I have absolutely no sort of sympathy for the big hotel owners - I know the salaries that they pay to the locals and how their hotels were built.
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Tourism to me seems to have increased in January & so far in Feb, and I expect that is the Arctic temperatures driving many from Canada and the Northern US.
But this fall & summer were super slow.. often I would go out for a beer (or 2-4) and at a pretty well established watering hole I would be the only patron all night.
I know of another establishment that went 2 weeks without a customer. He is hanging on now by a thread hoping to get through with this winter pickup and he has began to get some repeat customers.
I heard Juan Dolio is dead, dead. Have a friend trying to off load a rental condo there and says it was really overbuilt with no customers.
But this fall & summer were super slow.. often I would go out for a beer (or 2-4) and at a pretty well established watering hole I would be the only patron all night.
I know of another establishment that went 2 weeks without a customer. He is hanging on now by a thread hoping to get through with this winter pickup and he has began to get some repeat customers.
I heard Juan Dolio is dead, dead. Have a friend trying to off load a rental condo there and says it was really overbuilt with no customers.
I don't think that Juan Dolio was ever alive. It was way overbuilt from the very beginning. Had all this publicity as "the South Beach of the DR" - even dredged some of the shore to make it more attractive. But unlike the neighboring beach at Guayacanes, (my favorite beach - but only one hotel which was never in operation - something about the owner having been deported/in jail on drug charges? such was the rumor)
Juan Dolio- the area of the massive new construction - is not protected by a reef and thus the swimming is rough. The little original village is charming but the new development area was ALWAYS dead. There was no charm at all to the construction, very little vegetation.. generally quite desolate. There are some condo developments on the road to there which have done well - not on the beach - Guavaberry, I think? - since it is close to SD.
Juan Dolio- the area of the massive new construction - is not protected by a reef and thus the swimming is rough. The little original village is charming but the new development area was ALWAYS dead. There was no charm at all to the construction, very little vegetation.. generally quite desolate. There are some condo developments on the road to there which have done well - not on the beach - Guavaberry, I think? - since it is close to SD.
The fall of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar may also be having an effect - certainly it is down here in FL. Lots of Canadians who owned places in my community are putting theirs up for sale... https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/usd-cad
Economic activity is slowing as the hangover from this bubble that began around 10 years ago.
We clean them ourselves, and we pay a lot of money to the government every month for the school, in excess of 100,000 pesos, plus several other taxes , impuesto a la renta sociedades y activos imponibles monthly. If we were renting them on a full time basis yes we would pay. We pay taxes on our other rental property, but that's all handled by an accountant.
The dollar is up against the Euro as well - not since 2005 has it been this strong. So coming to the DR - if the prices are in US$ is not going to be as cheap https://www.macrotrends.net/2548/euro-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart
Note - I am NOT an economist - nor do I play one on Message Boards or TV so I might be completely OFF on this.. so those of you who understand this subject better please jump in to correct me if I am wrong
(As if any of you would be shy to jump in and correct anyone? - but I did think it important to say that I am quite out of my range of expertise here and really sorta guessing)
Note - I am NOT an economist - nor do I play one on Message Boards or TV so I might be completely OFF on this.. so those of you who understand this subject better please jump in to correct me if I am wrong
(As if any of you would be shy to jump in and correct anyone? - but I did think it important to say that I am quite out of my range of expertise here and really sorta guessing)
I stayed in Juan Dolio a couple of weeks ago, with a friend from England who had rented an apartment in the huge Marbella complex there. There are five enormous blocks of nice apartments and the beach and pool facilities are great. But the place could not be more dead, even at this "busiest" time of year. You could see at night that hardly any of the apartments had any lights on and during the day the pool and sun loungers were largely unused.
I assume the business model of the builders of complexes like this is just to sell the units, then sit back and receive the management and service charges, even if the units are unoccupied. They don't care if the condo owners are making any money or not.
Well in certainly affect the exchange. My pension is in Canadian dollars and it is grievous to only get 75 cents American for every Canadian dollar. Fortunately I usually don't need to spend much of it here.
It is having a major effect across the board. Travel sites pay suppliers in US dollars and pass the expense on to customers. 1 week AI trips to the POP area that used to be around $900 are now $1100-1200+ CDN. Two couples that I know opted for two weeks in Mexico instead of paying the rent being asked for a 30-60 day rental around Sosua/Cabarete this season. The cost to convert to USD is a choice killer for Canadians.
It's not as stark for Europeans but the Euro is down against the USD too. So for now, it looks like the Americans will almost have the run of the place. The number of Canadian snowbirds has been steadily falling for at least the last three years on the North Coast.
You can get a nice condo in Gascue for less than that with hot water, constant electricity, and a parking spot.
yes - but then we would be in Gazcue and not in the Zona ... for my nephew and his girl to visit in the Zona will be more fun. And probably for me. I lived in Gazcue for many years. Plus - with Apollo taxi - who really wants a car in SD? And I do know to pack a headlamp when traveling to the DR.. (note to tourists!)
Nice swerve! I would love to try telling the IRS that you don't pay tax on something but it's OK because you pay a lot of other taxes.
Of course they could, and from what I am being told the DGII has this in its sights. The issue is that if you paid the US$ 85 a night for the apartment in the Zona, plus the Propina Legal plus the ITBIS, you would be at $108.80 per night. And for that price you could choose from a wide range of 4 (and probably 5) star hotels right now.
The other point is that in the same way that even the guy who can't work out 5+5 without a calculator still seems able to calculate his Prestaciones if you fire him, everyone who works in a hotel watches out for their 10% and will hot-foot it to the Secretaria if they think they're not getting it. There are odd places you come across which employ Haitians and Venezuelans illegally and don't pay the Propina Legal, but most legit places also pay out the Propina in full.
I was checking car rental prices in Santo Domingo today and these are also rock bottom. The woman in the rental company said they cannot believe how quiet it is for this time of year and they have just laid off a lot of staff as a result.
I have a place in Marbella and correct they aren't packed (especially midweek) but thats the beauty of it. A lot of them aren't rented as its peoples holiday home to get away from Santo Domingo. Most of them aren't up for rent, just friends and family use them.
And on the subject of being quiet does everyone not remember the Hurricanes? A lot of other islands we out of action so people came here instead. We were a lot busier last year and true its down a little this year but not quite a crisis just yet
Noticed this as well in the malls here in SD-Thurs-Sun....Normally can barely get a parking space...now numerous spaces available.......