Living In A Women's Prison

mountainannie

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Yes. I had a bit of the very same reaction when I saw the prison, since the conditions were certainly far better than where certainly the majority of these women came from! But there really IS the fact that NO one wants to go back. EVERYone wants to get out as soon as they can and works very hard to get released for good behavior.

I assume, Chiri, that if you could find a religious practionioner, a shaman, a hougan, a guru or a whatnot, to conduct a service, that would certainly be ok'd, they are completely committed to religious freedom. So says the 300 plus page handbook that I have. Ditto I suppose some sort of private witchy ceremony to the sun... one supposes.

They already have almost a third 11 out of 36 (math is not my strong suit) prisons on line, and they plan to bring them on line at the rate of 5 per year which would mean 5 years until all of them were under the new model. Not all of them are going to be new prisons, ie new physical structures, but all will have new guards and the new regulations.

This is aimed really at protecting the entire nation, so that those who come out of the prisons are not in fact the sort of hard criminals that usually come out of prisons. Those criminals usually come out and infect the community. The aim here is to actually rehabilitate the prisoners so that they can become contributing members of the society again.

As for the drug runners - there is no bail at all for drug offenses in the DR so that once you are arrested you will stay in jail until trial and after it. This is due to the fact that there is so much money in narco trafficking and there is such a great risk of flight and so many foreigners involved. Two of the women I interviewed said that they had no idea what the consequences of their actions would be. They were both picked up at the airport at Punta Cana where there are dogs.

And speaking of dogs, I was thinking about them reading this discussion because certainly you all know what happens to a dog if you treat one the way you are suggesting that we ought to treat the prisoners? They become vicious and mean and really, really dangerous......

Sorry, Mike, there is no death penalty in the DR. (The maximum sentence is 30 years which can be reduced to 15.)

except of course for all those stray bullets from the policia
 

dv8

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no visits

a killer breaks family irreversibly. this parting cannot be undone, cannot be fixed and most likely cannot be forgotten and forgiven.
do i care that i will part killers with their families for 30 years (can be reduced to 15)? hell no. be happy you will see them back.
social interaction? yes. with other prisoners - there is school and work after all.
legal system does not treat everyone in the same way and this should be reflected in the prison sentence and even the type of prison. stealing a slice of bread is different that stealing someone's life savings. killing someone who has raped your child is different than shooting innocent people in the mall.
 

Thandie

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a killer breaks family irreversibly. this parting cannot be undone, cannot be fixed and most likely cannot be forgotten and forgiven.
do i care that i will part killers with their families for 30 years (can be reduced to 15)? hell no. be happy you will see them back.
social interaction? yes. with other prisoners - there is school and work after all.
legal system does not treat everyone in the same way and this should be reflected in the prison sentence and even the type of prison. stealing a slice of bread is different that stealing someone's life savings. killing someone who has raped your child is different than shooting innocent people in the mall.

What if she killed her abusive husband, who was about to kill her?
See how certain crimes may not be so black and white?

And murders are not getting out in 3 to 5 years.
They will probably be in jail for 20-30 years.

The vast majority of female prisoners are not murders and child rapists.
Mountainannie do you have any specific statistics about what type of crimes these prisoners have committed?
 

Thandie

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....but to use the COUNTRY's money for it......please! It is UNFAIR and a SLAP in the face of every hard-working, law abiding citizen (or resident;))
SHALENA

I think they should be doing both, but thats another discussion.
I totally agree that people and children who are not criminals deserve the same help.
But if the country has to continue SPENDING MONEY, maybe 3 or 4 more times during this criminals life.... to go through police arrests and the court system and jail terms...that is more money being taken out of the law abiding citizens mouth...as opposed to them only going to jail once.

And as monuntainannie said....
the other reason is to also protect the nation from more hardened and skilled criminal behaviour.
 

mountainannie

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No, I don't. That information might be available on line from the attorney general's office but I believe that once inside a prisoner is a prisoner and they are simply treated according to their behavior as a prisoner. Their records are not made public by the prison guards. I do not know that this is the case here but that has been my experience.
 

mountainannie

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Another interesting stat is that this prison system is running at the cost of US$10 to $12 per prisoner per day. Now, if the figures hold for the recidivism rate, this is going to prove to be an incredibly good investment.
 

mountainannie

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I don't know how to really do the comparison correctly but in the US, which has the highest rate of incarceration (1 in 42) the cost is $33 per day per regular inmate $100 for an elderly ... average at about $53... *this only from wikipedia....

But the US has a tragically high rate of recidivism
 

mountainannie

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In the United States, sixty-eight percent of males and 58% of females are rearrested, and 53% and 39% respectively are re-incarcerated (2003). [

According to a national study, within 3 years almost 7 out of 10 released males will find themselves back in prison.
also wiki
 

Berzin

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In the United States, sixty-eight percent of males and 58% of females are rearrested, and 53% and 39% respectively are re-incarcerated (2003). [

According to a national study, within 3 years almost 7 out of 10 released males will find themselves back in prison.
also wiki

Wiki is NOT a source of information, especially when it comes to statistics of any kind. Wiki is a poor substitute for doing actual research.

As for jail, none of us are qualified to truly articulate what constitutes proper punishment and rehabilitation in a country where a convicted drug kingpin can have a set of keys to his own cell, conjugal visits with underage prostitutes and a flatscreen TV with cable.
 

Lambada

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mountainannie, the other thing you might want to tell people about in relation to DR prisons is the high numbers of remand prisoners i.e. those people who have been charged but investigations are 'ongoing' and they have yet to come to trial, so they are not necessarily guilty. Did you observe remand prisoners in the model prisons or were they all people who had been convicted & sentenced?
 

dv8

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thandie, i know things are not black and white.
the sentence is to be decided by court but at least one can hope the offender will do time in prison not a hotel with doors that only lock from the outside.

i presume that a woman who killed abusive husband will leave prison once and for all and the maniac who shoots kids in the school will come back with more victims under his belt. the rate of re-offence must depend on the type of the offence as well as the offender himself, i'm pretty sure of that.
 

mountainannie

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yes, i know

Wiki is NOT a source of information, especially when it comes to statistics of any kind. Wiki is a poor substitute for doing actual research.

As for jail, none of us are qualified to truly articulate what constitutes proper punishment and rehabilitation in a country where a convicted drug kingpin can have a set of keys to his own cell, conjugal visits with underage prostitutes and a flatscreen TV with cable.

yes i know but the wiki's were footnoted and agreed in substance with the next three googles... i would never use them as a source...that, in fact, was why i put it there, so you would know that it was "just a wiki"
 

mountainannie

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Really don't know

mountainannie, the other thing you might want to tell people about in relation to DR prisons is the high numbers of remand prisoners i.e. those people who have been charged but investigations are 'ongoing' and they have yet to come to trial, so they are not necessarily guilty. Did you observe remand prisoners in the model prisons or were they all people who had been convicted & sentenced?

I really did not have either the time or the liberty to do a study. I was in the "custody" of Roberto Santana who did leave me alone to interview the prisoners but had very decided plans that I was to see all and everything. I know that Ian did say that he thought that there were far too many prisoners on remand. And Santana himself mentioned that there was absolutely no bail or possibility of release in drug related cases, so I am assuming that there IS bail in some cases.

I am hoping to pitch this piece for a longer article in a more important source although I am pleased to say that it has already made it to Jamaica, Cuba, Australia, and of course, the WWW.... we'll see if it gets translated and picked up more....

Perhaps we'll start a whole new form of tourism to the DR!

Come study our model prison system!
 

MikeFisher

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Great idea for first offenders.

Second offenders get something a little more harsh.

Third+ offenders? Maybe they forfeit their right to be among civil society...

back to good ole days.
hang 'em higher
and save the country future arrest/attorney/court/prison costs

Even animals crave some form of pleasure and social interraction.
To deprive people from that IS INHUMANE.
A bit of TV, board games, artistic expression and education is not fancy stuff. Those are the things that keep prisoners sane and feeling like humans.
As written by Thandie

You know you are my girl but COME ON...if they want a board game, some paper and crayons, let their families buy it and send it to them. I don't object to that, but to use the COUNTRY's money for it......please! It is UNFAIR and a SLAP in the face of every hard-working, law abiding citizen (or resident;))
SHALENA

the problem is, if you allow such to be brought 'in' by family aso for specific prisoners, there are others without a family/resources to purchase such, so we would be back by the actual system with different 'prisoner classes'. the big guys get all brought in and watch TV on a private flat screen or play dominoes with golden 'fichas', renting their 'bordgames' for money/advantages aso to other inmates.
there should only be a specific amount of specific stuff available, available for all, and nothing extra allowed, doesn't matter how wealthy a prisoners family is or how much drugmoney he has hidden under Mom's pillow.

You all kinda gotta agree with Shalena,
Do you think that the woman is really going to get out of jail and open a bakery or hair salon and hire local people to help run her buisness that she learned while living in relativley comfortable surroundings ?.
All shes going to do is leave the country with out thinking or thanking or helping anybody...

the blond drug bi$$ most likely will never ask for any job in the country, she will do at least 4 of the sentenced 8 years and leave the Island, good for the Island, i hope such person is automatically declared a 'persona non grada' and not allowed to come back, ever. on such crimes i would myself plee to let them do their time and deport them on THEIR country's costs back home right at the moment they leave that prison door, straight to the airport and bye..
but by far not all convicts in dominican prisons are foreigners and drugtraffickers i guess, so others may use their learned new skills to get a job at a bakery or at a salon aso. at least such is the idea of worldwide not unusual resocialization(sorry if that sp? is bad?)

a killer breaks family irreversibly. this parting cannot be undone, cannot be fixed and most likely cannot be forgotten and forgiven.
do i care that i will part killers with their families for 30 years (can be reduced to 15)? hell no. be happy you will see them back.
social interaction? yes. with other prisoners - there is school and work after all.
legal system does not treat everyone in the same way and this should be reflected in the prison sentence and even the type of prison. stealing a slice of bread is different that stealing someone's life savings. killing someone who has raped your child is different than shooting innocent people in the mall.

totally agree DV8,
but that's what the legal system is doing, sentencing them different. a killer in a mall will get more 'bakery experience' than a lil thief. such will not be different under the new prison system. the DR is actually as far of my knowledge not changing their way of judging criminals, they just run a urgently needed reform of their prison system, two different things.

I really did not have either the time or the liberty to do a study. I was in the "custody" of Roberto Santana who did leave me alone to interview the prisoners but had very decided plans that I was to see all and everything. I know that Ian did say that he thought that there were far too many prisoners on remand. And Santana himself mentioned that there was absolutely no bail or possibility of release in drug related cases, so I am assuming that there IS bail in some cases.

I am hoping to pitch this piece for a longer article in a more important source although I am pleased to say that it has already made it to Jamaica, Cuba, Australia, and of course, the WWW.... we'll see if it gets translated and picked up more....

Perhaps we'll start a whole new form of tourism to the DR!

Come study our model prison system!

and that's something i totally agree to,
no bail or setting free til trial on drug related cases, specially when the accused is a foreigner and most likely will disappear before a trial even starts.

great topic,
and very interesting to read the different opinions.

Mike
 

MikeFisher

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As for the drug runners - there is no bail at all for drug offenses in the DR so that once you are arrested you will stay in jail until trial and after it. This is due to the fact that there is so much money in narco trafficking and there is such a great risk of flight and so many foreigners involved. Two of the women I interviewed said that they had no idea what the consequences of their actions would be. They were both picked up at the airport at Punta Cana where there are dogs.

so they thought on caribbean Islands it is the usual daily thingy to cross borders with drugs and bring them home/or in.
did they also say they had no idea what the consequences would have been if caught on the other side of their travel route/in their homecountry?

missing brain doesn't protect from beeing found guilty to be a drugbi$$

Mike
 

mountainannie

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one thing that I saw that was really wierd was in the cell block room, there is a stack of lockers, each woman had a locker, for her change of clothes, shampoo, stuff that she had bought. Every locker had a key, and lots of the lockers were actually unlocked. Really. We were there and opened some,

(i have a picture but have no idea how to upload it)
 

dv8

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mountainannie, what are you trying to say? that those women are so nice and sweet they do not even lock their lockers?
hitler was very fond of dogs, you know...