Many Haitians Oppose International Intervention

ricpaq

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"Under President Thomas Jefferson’s presidency, the United States cut off aid to L’Ouverture and instead pursued a policy to isolate Haiti, fearing that the Haitian revolution would spread to the United States."
"Jefferson refused to recognize Haitian independence, a policy to which U.S. Federalists also acquiesced. Although France recognized Haitian independence in 1825, Haitians would have to wait until 1862 for the United States to recognize Haiti’s status as a sovereign, independent nation."

"At any rate, January 1, 1804 left Haiti facing a desperate task. She was:

  • virtually broke.
  • her base of wealth, the agriculture of sugar, coffee, spices and indigo, was in physical ruins, most plantations having been burned and ravaged.
  • the management structure of agriculture was in total disarray. Formerly worked by unwilling slaves and overseen by foreigners, Haiti was now populated by free peasants unwilling to work for another and wanting their own land.
  • the international community was overtly hostile to this former slave nation. Remember that the U.S., France, Britain and Spain were all still slave nations. Haiti's servile revolution was a frightful model to these powerful nations. (This hostility was not overridden by the fact that some nations, Britain first and foremost and the U.S. to a significant degree, continued to carry on a quiet trade with this nation that they regarded as an international pariah.)
  • a huge source of revenue: slave trade, was now closed to Haiti. (Though some Haitians suggested renewing it to increase the number of field workers.)
  • despite a constitution of free persons, already in 1804 the directions toward despotic rule by a small rich, powerful elite clique was forming.
  • finally, the external world was changing. The coming Industrial Revolution was already coming to claim its place in world history. This would have three notable impacts on Haiti:
    1. Her agriculture products and slave trade, so central to European economy in the previous century, would begin to make her potential economic potential less important, even in some ideal world's free trade.
    2. Her lack of natural resources appropriate to industrialization, the lack of capital and skilled industrialists would condemn her to an increasingly less important potential.
    3. The international community's hostility toward Haiti and deliberate marginalization of her, would mean that the Industrial Revolution wold virtually pass Haiti by. If one looks at Haiti in mid-1995, one sees a small modicum of electric service and telecommunications, and a handful of assembly plants. But, in the main, nearly 200 years after the Haitian Revolution, and 150 years after the vigor of the industrial revolution, Haiti is a nation to which the Industrial Revolution never came.
This was the situation that depopulated Haiti faced on January 1, 1804. (Probably fewer than 350,000 Haitians survived the revolution.)"
"The United States Government had been interested in Haiti for decades prior to its occupation. As a potential naval base for the United States and other imperialist powers, Haiti's stability was of great interest to U.S. diplomatic and defense officials who feared instability might result in foreign rule of Haiti. In 1868, President Andrew Johnson suggested the annexation of the island of Hispaniola, made up of Haiti and the Dominican Republic, to secure a U.S. defensive and economic stake in the West Indies. From 1889 to 1891, Secretary of State James Blaine unsuccessfully sought a lease of Mole-Saint Nicolas, a city on Haiti's northern coast strategically located for a naval base. In 1910 President William Howard Taft granted Haiti a large loan in hopes that Haiti could pay off its international debt, thus lessening foreign influence. The attempt proved futile due to the enormity of the debt and the internal instability of the country."

"As such, Haiti’s independence was viewed as a threat by all slave-owning countries – the United States included – and its very existence rankled racist sensibilities globally. Thus Haiti – tiny, impoverished and all alone in a hostile world – had little choice but to accede to France’s reparation demands, which were delivered to Port-au-Prince by a fleet of heavily armed warships in 1825.

By complying with an ultimatum that amounted to extortion, Haiti gained immunity from French military invasion, relief from political and economic isolation – and a crippling debt that took 122 years to pay off."


If those who consider themselves educators want to give history lessons...they should at least read it themselves before trying to teach others. They should also consult a map to learn geography.
More importantly they should learn the difference between an opinion and a fact.
That is very interesting reading.
 

windeguy

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I do get a good part of your point in that this problem is not going away EASY. The current dismal situation is based upon a history that keeps repeating itself. A lot of good efforts get misdirected to the wrong organizations or political factions. The people of Haiti never see the results. The outcome is desperation and chaos.

The DR is not innocent here with all of it's corruption. I know it's corrupt because I take advantage of it too. It is so easy. DR can build a wall but a little DOP will always penetrate it. But to go into Haiti again and do harm to innocent people is an evil that we need to cleanse ourselves of.
I completely agree that no one should go into Haiti and do anything there. There would be no point in that.

The wall must be built and people stopped from penetrating it.
 
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bob saunders

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That is very interesting reading.
From the last article: " The subsequent 22-year occupation would result not only in the economic and cultural deterioration of Santo Domingo but also in a resentment of Haiti by the Dominicans. Agriculture in Santo Domingo was for the most part reduced to a sustenance level and exports dramatically declined."
So, even back then Haitians were screwing things up with not influence or interference from outside sources.
 

bob saunders

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"Haiti is one of the poorest nations in the world, and rich countries have their fingerprints all over the nation's stunted development. The United States worked to isolate a newly independent Haiti during the early 19th century and violently occupied the island nation for 19 years in the early 20th century. While the U.S. officially left Haiti in 1934, it continued to control Haiti's public finances until 1947, siphoning away around 40% of Haiti's national income to service debt repayments to the U.S. and France."

"It was the former slaves of Haiti, not the French slaveholders, who were forced to pay reparations. Haitians compensated their oppressors and their oppressors' descendants for the privilege of being free. It took Haiti more than a century to pay the reparation debts off."


20 - 30 billion USD as a new nation after winning freedom and independence.
You cannot tilt the playing field, stack the deck, rig the game and then walk away and say good luck with that.
Actually they can and did and see what the situation is today.
Don't give me that "pull yourself up you own bootstraps" (insert expletive of your choice here).
I am not accepting it nor agreeing with it.

🇭🇹 has a good reason to not be pleased with the idea of another international intervention.
Look how the original actions of Haitians were taken by the world.
They simply could not except it.
And anyone who is not like this: 🙈🙉 knows why.
That would be accept, not except.
 
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mountainannie

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There has been a UN action to appoint a committee to investigate corruption - vis a vis who to place sanctions on.... (We ought to have That Report shortly before the turn of the next century, right)
Moise did reinstate the "Haitian Army" and it now being trained in itsy bitsy groups of 30 in Mexico
There is one French diplomat who has offered to talk with BBQ about getting some gas out of the terminal
Russia and China hav vowed to block any Security Council resolution on sending troops
Most of the calls for No Intervention -- appear to be coming from abroad
The calls from the street are Down with Ariel
And a couple of Haitian twitters on the ground have told me that they are desperate for some international security and terrified of the "Mob"

Which were ignited by the increase in the fuel prices - after the IMF told the gov't they had to eliminate fuel subsidies https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...advice-to-cut-fuel-subsidies/?sh=182acc275169

And the "riots" have been ongoing for two or so years since the money/fuel from the petrocaribe deal with Venezuela went to produce projects that never appeared except on paper -https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gilbert-mirambeau-haiti-protests-1.5025177

There is a group of educated, middle class civic leaders assembled into what is called "The Montana Accord" which has been working for two years - traveling about the country - listening to various groups on the ground. They have the support of Uncle Sam and the Core Group but not of Aristide's party and the other Leftists - And now the Montana Group will NOT sit down with Henry - which the US/Core insists on...

My latest blog post
which I am pretty much using to respond to Every Tweet on Haitian Twitter...http://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2022/10/foreign-intervention-again-in-haiti.html

(I really appreciate all the links that you are posting - particularly those who post full articles from the Miami Herald - My budget line for subscriptions is Maxed and Jaqueline is not on it.. but I do care about her reporting - their pay wall is very strict here )
 
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johne

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also -- Election Day in the US is the second Tues in Nov... and it will be Very Close ... so there will be no action from the US before that.. and doubtful really boots on the ground after... live link to blog ..http://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2022/10/foreign-intervention-again-in-haiti.html
How does one respond thoughtfully to this (US politics )without it being censored? I just don't know how to post any longer when your can't "discuss US politics" without being schuffeled off to the the trash bin. Entounces...no comment. Mods... as always he may delete this post if it is offensive to the reading members.
 

mountainannie

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How does one respond thoughtfully to this (US politics )without it being censored? I just don't know how to post any longer when your can't "discuss US politics" without being schuffeled off to the the trash bin. Entounces...no comment. Mods... as always he may delete this post if it is offensive to the reading members.
Not really posting on Nan's thread for responses - folks are welcome to respond to my posts over on the Haiti News and Politics - where I am not the OP but the primary poster - and only the most Dedicated Haitian observers follow my TLDR posts....
 

ricpaq

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May 21, 2015
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How does one respond thoughtfully to this (US politics )without it being censored? I just don't know how to post any longer when your can't "discuss US politics" without being schuffeled off to the the trash bin. Entounces...no comment. Mods... as always he may delete this post if it is offensive to the reading members.
This is same as the NFL. Someone takes a jab. You respond and get the penalty.
 

johne

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Not really posting on Nan's thread for responses - folks are welcome to respond to my posts over on the Haiti News and Politics - where I am not the OP but the primary poster - and only the most Dedicated Haitian observers follow my TLDR posts....
My comment was not directed to you but to your reference to US, elections, forecast etc. Under another set of TOS I would have been inclined to post my view vis a vi the possibility of a new admin in the US might change the thinking of intervention. Nope, I'm not going there as I'm not here to have my viewpoints censored. I clearly have other things that I need to get done.
 

windeguy

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Friday's text eliminated an earlier reference to an Oct. 7 appeal by Haiti’s Council of Ministers for the urgent dispatch of an international military force to tackle the country’s violence and alleviate its humanitarian crisis. It also dropped mention of an Oct. 8 letter from U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres outlining options to help Haiti’s National Police combat high levels of gang violence.

Thomas-Greenfield said Friday the next resolution will be a response to those requests. She didn’t say when it would be circulated or put to a vote though diplomats said it could happen next week.