Metro fares: Here and there

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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I was just reading in today's New York Times that the MTA is faces with a little $900 million "gap" that needs to be filled in...budget-wise that is.
With that in mind, I keep remembering that the "announced" fare for the Sto Dgo Metro will be RD$25, or in "real" money about 72?. The fare in NYC today is $2.00 but there are Metrocards and other cards and plans that let you ride for a little less. However, NYC is planning to increase their income by 8%, which could mean a fare increase in consecutive years for only the second time in the 100 year history of the subway system (the first time was 19981-1982, I think).

So, with costs that have to be higher than NYC--especially energy costs and maintenance costs--how can dear Leonel and his flunkies charge just 72?? The answer is, of course, that they can't, and the end result will be a huge subsidy applied to the system and paid for by us, the taxpayers, the middle class and the poor. Isn't it funny that the "middle class" is the one that gets squeezed all the time, so fitting, don't you think??

Anyway, just keep this in mind....I am sure things will get interesting.

HB
 
Jan 5, 2006
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They expect (probably) that millions people going to use the Metro.
Since HB is comparing it to the NYC subway system; keep in mind that the population of NYC is approximately 4 times that of SD, so ridership volume is not how they will make the difference.

Like I posted above; the math will be interesting. One quarter of available users at 36% of the price doesn't cut it, even if operational costs are lower, which is probably the reasoning that they'll use.
 

Ezequiel

Bronze
Jun 4, 2008
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I was just reading in today's New York Times that the MTA is faces with a little $900 million "gap" that needs to be filled in...budget-wise that is.
With that in mind, I keep remembering that the "announced" fare for the Sto Dgo Metro will be RD$25, or in "real" money about 72?. The fare in NYC today is $2.00 but there are Metrocards and other cards and plans that let you ride for a little less. However, NYC is planning to increase their income by 8%, which could mean a fare increase in consecutive years for only the second time in the 100 year history of the subway system (the first time was 19981-1982, I think).

So, with costs that have to be higher than NYC--especially energy costs and maintenance costs--how can dear Leonel and his flunkies charge just 72?? The answer is, of course, that they can't, and the end result will be a huge subsidy applied to the system and paid for by us, the taxpayers, the middle class and the poor. Isn't it funny that the "middle class" is the one that gets squeezed all the time, so fitting, don't you think??

Anyway, just keep this in mind....I am sure things will get interesting.

HB

If the government charge more than $25 pesos, regular people won't be able to use it, not to mention poor people who uses Carros de Conchos.

You can't compare the NYC Subway system (the largerst or one of the largerst in the world) with the simple one in the DR, plus New Yorkers CAN afford the raise.
 

RGVgal

Bronze
May 26, 2008
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If the government charge more than $25 pesos, regular people won't be able to use it, not to mention poor people who uses Carros de Conchos.

You can't compare the NYC Subway system (the largerst or one of the largerst in the world) with the simple one in the DR, plus New Yorkers CAN afford the raise.
How do you know New Yorkers can afford the fare increase? There are poor people in NYC also.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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The issue is not about the fare. RD$50 a day to and from work is RD$1000 a month, IF you don't have to use anything else like a moto-concho...
That takes a hunk out of any salary except a deputies (or any legislator's). So, if real costs are in the US$2.00 range (RD$69 +/-) we have 69 - 25 = 44 pesos per rider X the 150,000 riders that "they" are projecting per day = 6,600,000 + 6,600.000 = 13,200,000 per day in shortfall or subsidy X 20 workdays = 264,000,000 per month X 11 =2,904,000,000 more or less per year and remember NYC is losing money!!

It gets mind boggling, doesn't it??

Oh, you ask, why just 11 months? Because of all the holiday, three day weekends and vacations...that's why..

Love, peace y'all

HB
 

Ricardo900

Silver
Jul 12, 2004
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It would be nice to compare other newly implemented subway/rail systems, perhaps Puerto Rico and others.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
We await Mr PICHARDO with his crystal ball.........:cheeky:
#1 - The DR's gov has a subsidy to the electricity generating companies since inception (and before that).

#2 - The DR's gov WILL cut that subsidy soon to $0.00...

#3 - Low income families that can't pay the real electrical bill will get aid in the form of direct funds via a solidarity card to pay for the services (more like a discount card with a given monthly amount based on pre-calculated usage per family household size).

#4 - The DR's gov will overhaul the present electrical system (as I said here on DR1 before) to bring about deep changes in the way the power generating companies bill their services and the loss in transit due to non-theft.

#5 - The DR's gov (by the end of 2010) will have several power plants working to divert the public sector (gov) usage off the grid and sell the rest to the grid in a primary biller role (as first tier grid provider).

#6 - The electricity needs for the entire SD Metro and soon to be SDQ - STI high speed train, will be met by the plants under direct gov control. In fact the plants will operate in a for profit way, unlike the past system of the CDE (now defunct).

#7 - The DR's gov is much tilted towards the construction of Ethanol based electrical generators to avoid the need to buy imported fossil fuel in the long term. The DR's gov will use the vast amount of today unused land to make contracts with the private sector for sugarcane production solely aimed to Ethanol production to this end.

#8 - The SD Metro and soon to be SDQ -STI high speed train system, are the most commercially advanced systems of their kind in real use today in the known world, as such they represent the best ratio of cost/operation unlike the NYC Metro and their very, very, very costly system.

#9 - The implementation of a nation-wide energy savings system is underway, first the use of new energy saving bulbs is being done; soon to be followed by the entire private sector. Then after that, the creation of a new agency that will oversee the power savings rating of all electrical things imported into the DR will make sure to create guidelines to cut in the excess of high power consumption devices.

#10 - The SD Metro is by far 1000% better suited than the entire NYC metro system to pull in money from non-ridership revenues via third party income sources. The cars are fitted with LCD monitors to that aim (what did you think they're for?), LCD billboards will be placed on all stations and where they can be spotted with ease by riders. Shops inside the stations as well, etc...

#11 - The SD Metro will be pushed towards the private sector's labor pool, which is in direct service to assist to their work places via the Metro, with ambitious plans of saving to both employee and employers. In effect, rides will be sold for entire years with savings for both. At the same time the money raised via this kind of sales will end up in special accounts to raise dividends via interest until the FY budget is addressed.

#12 - The SD Metro only needs to cover the operational part of employees, cleanup, maintenance, goods, etc... The big load of power consumption will be out of the loop as the gov is going to assume the cost of energy as it has been doing for the electricity generating companies till now, regardless of who got to use it.

#13 - The actual subsidy of the gov to the energy grid with Metro and all, as studied, will in fact drop by 40 to 55%! That's all the while providing power for free to the Metro system...

#14 - The SD Metro system is rated to operate with very little major maintenance for a long period of time and with the setting of a highly technical shop in the yards (something I just let out here and now in DR1), The system can operate with very little costs to burden the system with over budget expenses for quite a long time after that.

#15 - Please! Pretty please! Don't compare the NYC subway (a remarkable system nevertheless) to the SD Metro (the youngest and 100% most advanced in all the technologies employed today in Metro systems in use in the WORLD). The SD Metro was built from scratch, not atop or paired with an existent system; as such, the SD Metro is the beneficiary of the most advanced technology that a Metro can have from the ground-up. Even the Madrid Metro and others that boast the same cars as us, can't say they're in our level of technology, given that ours was built from the designer's table of the mothership. The SD Metro is the most advanced Metro in the Western Hemisphere as soon as the system goes public into service! No ifs or buts about it.

The Metro system that was built in SD is the test bed for Almston and Siemens Metro Systems. They incorporated the top technologies each of the companies involved brought to the table. The SD Metro will be a model for LA to follow both in technology and construction.

The operating power consumption of the SD Metro in contrast to the NYC Subway is like comparing a Model T to a Prius today... That huge is the gap between the technologies employed by both systems!!!
 

sollie

New member
Jul 30, 2006
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Pichardo,

I always enjoy your posts; well spoken, assured and almost always germane. However, what are your credentials? I respect your opinion but after reading your posts am almost always left with an aftertaste of propaganda. Do you work for the government or are you an unbiased observer? Or is that a stupid question?

Sollie
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
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#2 - The DR's gov WILL cut that subsidy soon to $0.00...

#3 - Low income families that can't pay the real electrical bill will get aid in the form of direct funds via a solidarity card to pay for the services (more like a discount card with a given monthly amount based on pre-calculated usage per family household size).
I will just tackle those two for the heck of it.......#2 says subsidies will be zero but when you go to #3 no matter what name you call it, be it solidarity card or whatever, it is still some form of governmental subsidy.....me thinks.:ermm:
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
I work for no gov, political party, interest group...

I however do work with many people that like me are in a position to influence a little bit with some diplomacy and a whole lot with a nasty palo in the hand.

The Metro system of the DR was NOT the MASTER PLAN of Leonel Fernandez Reyna, but the work of many people with interest that our country sets the base for the future to come of our next generations.

Prez Fernandez however has been the person with whom we are able to work with b/c of his education and equal interest in our country's development.

Need credentials? Go back to my posts and compared the things I said to come with the ones already taking place all around you and on the Dominican news. See if they match or not...

You can match them with Telecommunications news, air travel, tax collection with flagging and immediate outing of corrupt officials, Banking overhaul, electrical sector overhaul, plants, mass transit projects, etc...

I told you that taxes will be paid by all, soon, very soon, and 50,000 new add-ons is not even the tip of the iceberg once the 'System" is in place for the country's finances.

Think you need change for the purchase? Expect to need even more later...

Most people are ignorant of how the Metro project was developed... First of all: Did you really think that any DR gov could come up with a plan like this on their own? LOL!!!

Ethanol plants, leasing program of gov lands to privateers for sugarcane to Ethanol...

Energy saving bulbs, appliances, devices...

Roads managed by private companies via tolls...

Moving a country for the first time to electronic commerce 100%!...

Streamlining of gov operations with flagging systems on a full autonomous operation?...

Auditing of biz via electronic devices on real time?...

And much, much more...

I tell you what! Go back on my posts and check the ones where I posted on how the gas was going to be provided to public transporters via specific measures and compare them line by line to the ones described just days ago in the news...

Check how I described the way the subsidy to low income families was going to be meted out and see the date of the posts and check again the date on when ANY news on the plan of the gov came out for this...

Check out the date on my posts about the energy saving bulbs here in DR1 and when was the first time anything relating to that came out on ANY news of the DR or anywhere else for that matter...

And on a little bomb I was saving till later (but was cut to it by some loose lips) but again check my post here on DR1 on that plan of constructing power generators and read the last line where I mention a last option and didn't list it.

The DR is looking to all options regarding power generating plants and Nuclear Energy is one of them. Seen some Japanese around the capital as of lately???? Mitsubishi Heavy Industries are IN the DR for guidance talk... Think 20 to 25 years ahead into the future of the DR...
 
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PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
I will just tackle those two for the heck of it.......#2 says subsidies will be zero but when you go to #3 no matter what name you call it, be it solidarity card or whatever, it is still some form of governmental subsidy.....me thinks.:ermm:
Hidalgo have you got a cohesion problem?

Subsidy of the energy sector is going to end till 0% is done; aid to low income families in the way of solidarity cards is not a subsidy but economic relief via tax income sheer volume.

So you call subsidy any aid by gov to citizens that can't afford services that are classified as basic by the UN guidelines of developed countries?

A solidarity program is not a subsidy program in as much as that it aids only the individual and not the goods or entities providing the services.

Learn a bit more about subsidies and aid...
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
He translates pre-election program. Or smokes something?




I feel like a school teacher in an elementary class...

Enough with the childish remarks! If you can't debate or provide a monosyllabic opinion don't post insults to other posters. If you don?t agree to something, say so and if you feel a pseudointellectual like yourself doesn't need to lower the standards to answer to the posts, please use the ignore option or plain and simply avoid the thread!

It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt...