Modern Islamic Contributions to Science

[greydread]

I dont like corporate welfare any more or any less than any other type of welfare. But iwas specifically responding to your statement that 80% of recipients are white. They are not. In fact it is half that number. Only thing that needs to come out of your butt is poop. Not some number you just figure nobody will check. I check. I check a lot of things.

Anyway it seems we agree in part. I am against farmers getting welfare. I would let the poor live in tents or without. I would have let the banks fail, the car companies fail. Screw them and their unions. Arriba toyota. I would let little kids starve if their parents let that happen to them. Or they could turn them over to orphanages. I would willingly contribute to orphanages. In fact i would probably adopt many. But i would teach the kids to fish instead of asking for fish. And i think many other like minded libertarians would also.

It is funny you mention Ayn Rand. I love her writings. She is spot on. I have read Atlas Shrugged. I have read all of her published essays. She really only has one short coming. And that would be here isolationist view of the world. The world is smaller than it ever has been. The oceans no longer act as the barrier it did 100+ years ago.

One other thing, if i remember my constitution correctly and the federalist papers that sold the constitution to the people. The only legitimate function of federal governent is a common defense and ensuring interstate commerce. Feeding kids, farmers, feral pigs or near extinct birds does not fall under either one of those functions.

I also have one question. If rich people get their income from capital gains then how is the bush tax cut for the rich? Or are the bush tax cuts for the wannabe rich. You know the higher earning working class. The ones that are working hard and smart to accumulate wealth. What i think is that both parties are protecting their wealthy contributors. But just come out and say it. We want some of the money (wealth)you have saved up over your lifetime so we can use it on our own pet projects.

Another thing i have never understood, is why people believe that money earned or gained outside the US should be reported to and taxed by the US government. And then wonder why corporations such as Apple or GE dont want to bring their money back home. Why would they? You would have to have a complete disregard for your investors to deliberately lose THEIR money. Lapher curve ?

My problem with conservatives is their over reaching concern into peoples personal lives. My problem with liberals is their victimhood approach to nearly everything. And too many lefties come across as humans are the polution on the planet. No room in my life for either of those types of people.

You missed the point, possibly on purpose. "Welfare" isn't just the HHS backed State checks to the permanently unemployed. "Welfare" is the entire gamut of government assistance on state, county and federal levels, all of it. That makes the tax breaks given to banks, investors, government contractors and everybody who circumvents the tax system equally parasitic to the system as the poor school Kids on the free lunch program.

All you Guys who claim "conservatisms" and "Libertarianism" should be hollering equally loudly about those "welfare" programs but you're not, mostly because the moneys are going to benefit people who look a lot like you. Here's a thought from a real conservative, let's drop all the tax break programs and institute a flat tax on income from all sources and a flat tax on consumption. The deficit will dissolve in our lifetime and sure, I'll end up paying a little more than at present since I'm in a higher income bracket than most but we'll have enough money in the budgets to make sure that there are a sufficient number of jobs to employ our neediest citizens upgrading our national infrastructure which will pay benefits down the road to all of us. Investing in education, infrastructure and scientific research is just that, an investment.

We can't solve world hunger and homelessness but we can build a template for the world to follow as we solve our own problems. If we're lucky, we'll live to see the day when doctors can once again make house calls.

The role of the federal government in the business of doing business is not to run the business but to make sure that the playing field is not skewed from state to state. A citizen should be able to expect their rights to be respected in any jurisdiction in the country equally. When Florida (for example) gets to determine which citizens don't get to participate in national elections it is an affront to each of the citizens in the other 49 states. When Mississippi (for example) gets to determine which of its citizens are allowed to express their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and which don't it is a federal offense.

The federal government wouldn't intercede in "states' rights" if states didn't abuse the rights of U.S. citizens selected for mistreatment based upon their race, religion, creed, gender or sexual preference.

 

[wrecksum]

I reckon you guys should get a room....

It's called the 'Off-Topic' where the likes of us peasants may not enter, and fear to tread.....

 

[greydread]

I reckon you guys should get a room....

It's called the 'Off-Topic' where the likes of us peasants may not enter, and fear to tread.....

Actually we're quite at home here in the "clown bin".

When I start my laughter therapy each day I begin with me.

 

[Mountaintrout]

As for restricting abortions. I agree that people can vote for what they want where they live. Progressive fanatics and religious fanatics are both negatives to me. As a Libertarian, restricting abortions is against my principles and I would vote against any such restrictions. Also the more unwanted children there are, the more they burden support systems, increasing taxes and government programs that are funded to inefficiently deal with such issues which has an indirect effect upon me and everyone else. I would rather see the tax dollars spent to fund an abortion, rather then the life time support of some unwanted child.

Or you can take the state of Texas approach. Stop the abortion, as it's not moral. Let the unwanted child grow up on govt aid, then when it commits a crime at 18 yrs old, fry the POS in the electric chair.

 

[Mountaintrout]

Bank Bailouts: Then there’s the $700 billion bank bailout – to rescue banks from problems they themselves created. Yes it got paid back; and yes, we had to do something. But the reason this money was little more than welfare was because the banks got to do what they wanted to with it. It could have come with strings – we could have insisted that they write down mortgages to market value or allowed refinancing at lower interest rates or longer amortization periods. We could even have given the money directly to stressed homeowners, instead of the banksters who caused the problem. Any of these approaches would have prevented defaults, slowed – or even reversed – the precipitous declines in real estate values, and given low and middle income consumers some ability to consume, which, at the end of the day is the real “job creator.” And we most certainly could have insisted that banks money loan out the money to small businesses and home buyers.

But we did nothing like that. Instead, we allowed the banks to play a high stakes game of pump-and-dump – complete with flash trading – with our money. Instead of loans designed to jump start the economy, we got risky investments underwritten with our tax money that paid off only the Wall Street elite.

Talk about welfare. Talk about your welfare kings and queens. It doesn’t get any more obscenely selfish and opportunistic than this.



This is so true. When is the last time anyone received a free loan from a bank? The skanks have the best business model:
Profits are privatized, losses are socialized.

 

[Mountaintrout]

Its too late cc. The country is lost. Current debt is somewhere between 47 trillion and 150 trillion depending on who you listen to and what you count as debt. Ie unfunded liabilities. Go with the low number of 47 trillion / 300 million persons=Roughly 156000 per man woman and child. Median income in 2012 for a family of four was 65000. How is a family of four with income of 65k going to service a 625k debt? Plus eat, have a home to live in pay for college, etc etc. Currently more than half the country is a net reciever from the govt. they arent going to be voting for positive change. Nope. They will call for closing bases, cutting military, space programs etc., in order free up funds for their free cheese. The government will give them what they want in return for their votes. The progressives have won, for it is getting progressively worse. But at least we have our first black president and in two more years we will elect our first woman president.

The good news is that if Hillary is anything like Bill she will at least govern from the middle. After 16 years of bush and obama i yearn for the days of Bill.

I honestly believe the two parties dislike each other so much they spend most of their energy undoing what the other party has done, whether good or bad.

I wonder if Hillary likes cigars?:laugh:

 

[bob saunders]

You missed the point, possibly on purpose. "Welfare" isn't just the HHS backed State checks to the permanently unemployed. "Welfare" is the entire gamut of government assistance on state, county and federal levels, all of it. That makes the tax breaks given to banks, investors, government contractors and everybody who circumvents the tax system equally parasitic to the system as the poor school Kids on the free lunch program.

All you Guys who claim "conservatisms" and "Libertarianism" should be hollering equally loudly about those "welfare" programs but you're not, mostly because the moneys are going to benefit people who look a lot like you. Here's a thought from a real conservative, let's drop all the tax break programs and institute a flat tax on income from all sources and a flat tax on consumption. The deficit will dissolve in our lifetime and sure, I'll end up paying a little more than at present since I'm in a higher income bracket than most but we'll have enough money in the budgets to make sure that there are a sufficient number of jobs to employ our neediest citizens upgrading our national infrastructure which will pay benefits down the road to all of us. Investing in education, infrastructure and scientific research is just that, an investment.

We can't solve world hunger and homelessness but we can build a template for the world to follow as we solve our own problems. If we're lucky, we'll live to see the day when doctors can once again make house calls.

The role of the federal government in the business of doing business is not to run the business but to make sure that the playing field is not skewed from state to state. A citizen should be able to expect their rights to be respected in any jurisdiction in the country equally. When Florida (for example) gets to determine which citizens don't get to participate in national elections it is an affront to each of the citizens in the other 49 states. When Mississippi (for example) gets to determine which of its citizens are allowed to express their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and which don't it is a federal offense.

The federal government wouldn't intercede in "states' rights" if states didn't abuse the rights of U.S. citizens selected for mistreatment based upon their race, religion, creed, gender or sexual preference.

Everyone should have clear voter id for federal elections. There is nothing prejudicial about somebody having to prove their right to vote with ID. Several years back when the last Federal elections in Canada were held everyone in our household, consisting of mother-inlaw, wife, step-son and two son received voter cards. Everyone except me, the guy paying the property taxes, mortgage,...etc. I had to go register (again) and I had to show ID, plus MAIL TO PROVE I LIVED WHERE I SAID I DID. Isn't a big deal.

 

[windeguy]

Nope. Welfare extends far beyond what's going on over at HHS and USDA, Commerce, Treasury, DOD, DOE and a few loose agencies here and there all have a hand in it.

Think by Numbers ? Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Subsidies than Social Welfare Programs

You want to see life in the narrow view but life doesn't happen that way.

You think that providing a $3 free lunch to public school kids who probably would spend the day hungry is bad but you think that giving some guy who owns 4,000 acres of land tens of thousands of dollars not to grow a crop that he had no intention of growing is okay.

Man, what you don't know (or refuse to see) is a lot!

Unfortunately when you have huge government with large agencies run by lobbyists (not the people) you get vast amounts of spending on special interests like farmers, bankers, auto manufacturer's , insurance companies (had to get that in there for Obmamcare), etc and last but not least all of the huge companies making up the military industrial complex.

Incredible amounts of money spent lining peoples pockets legally - corporate welfare.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Lobbyists are suppose to represent people. Instead, they represent money. It's all too often quid pro quo.

 

[windeguy]

Lobbyists are suppose to represent people. Instead, they represent money. It's all too often quid pro quo.

Lobbyists are the most corrupting influence on the US government that i know about. And nobody seems to care.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Corporations are people too...
~Mitt Romney

 

[bob saunders]

Corporations are people too...
~Mitt Romney

YOU HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE BEING A PERSONAL CORPORATION. Most doctors in Canada are personal corporations, many other people as well.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Including the Koch Brothers, Soros, Adelson..

 

[pelaut]

Corporations are people too...
~Mitt Romney

he was referring to the supreme court's ruling thnat a corperation is a person under the law.

 

[windeguy]

Or you can take the state of Texas approach. Stop the abortion, as it's not moral. Let the unwanted child grow up on govt aid, then when it commits a crime at 18 yrs old, fry the POS in the electric chair.

I would rather "let's not and say we did". Texas should not be a guiding light for the US in that matter.

 

[bob saunders]

he was referring to the supreme court's ruling thnat a corperation is a person under the law.

Of course, but for many people it's better to distort the truth to fit their agenda than to utter the truth.

 

[windeguy]

YOU HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE BEING A PERSONAL CORPORATION. Most doctors in Canada are personal corporations, many other people as well.

I have no issue with people or a single person being corporations. I have an issue when corporations are treated as people. In this case corporations are allowed to buy representation in the government.

On January 21, 2010, with its ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are persons, entitled by the U.S. Constitution to buy elections and run our government. Human beings are people; corporations are legal fictions.

We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United and other related cases, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.

The Supreme Court is misguided in principle, and wrong on the law. In a democracy, the people rule.

https://movetoamend.org/

 

[greydread]

Everyone should have clear voter id for federal elections. There is nothing prejudicial about somebody having to prove their right to vote with ID. Several years back when the last Federal elections in Canada were held everyone in our household, consisting of mother-inlaw, wife, step-son and two son received voter cards. Everyone except me, the guy paying the property taxes, mortgage,...etc. I had to go register (again) and I had to show ID, plus MAIL TO PROVE I LIVED WHERE I SAID I DID. Isn't a big deal.

What are you talking about Bob? Medgar Evers and hundreds of people throughout the South were shot, dynamited, lynched and thousands were beaten and jailed for simply attempting to register themselves and others to vote. The voter intimidation campaigns are nothing short of Apartheid and are legendary. It took the federal government sending 1st the FBI and then sending troops in order to ensure that fully qualified United States citizens would be allowed to simply exercise their right to vote. Were you in a coma during the 60's?

 

[greydread]

Bank Bailouts: Then there?s the $700 billion bank bailout ? to rescue banks from problems they themselves created. Yes it got paid back; and yes, we had to do something. But the reason this money was little more than welfare was because the banks got to do what they wanted to with it. It could have come with strings ? we could have insisted that they write down mortgages to market value or allowed refinancing at lower interest rates or longer amortization periods. We could even have given the money directly to stressed homeowners, instead of the banksters who caused the problem. Any of these approaches would have prevented defaults, slowed ? or even reversed ? the precipitous declines in real estate values, and given low and middle income consumers some ability to consume, which, at the end of the day is the real ?job creator.? And we most certainly could have insisted that banks money loan out the money to small businesses and home buyers.

But we did nothing like that. Instead, we allowed the banks to play a high stakes game of pump-and-dump ? complete with flash trading ? with our money. Instead of loans designed to jump start the economy, we got risky investments underwritten with our tax money that paid off only the Wall Street elite.

Talk about welfare. Talk about your welfare kings and queens. It doesn?t get any more obscenely selfish and opportunistic than this.



This is so true. When is the last time anyone received a free loan from a bank? The skanks have the best business model:
Profits are privatized, losses are socialized.

David Stockman: How Washington DC and the Fed Sacrificed America for Wall Street | Peak Prosperity

 

[greydread]

Lobbyists are suppose to represent people. Instead, they represent money. It's all too often quid pro quo.

Lobbyists are for sale to the highest bidder.

They are always working to increase the profits of their employers and reduce their public responsibility.

Their bosses make money the old fashioned way. They steal it.