That last line is almost verbatim what Mr. AE said last night when I told him the OP's story.
Be very careful drSix.
- Thread starter drSix
- Start date
My Gardener/Handyman/Drinking Buddy/Gringo Tax Advisor...
That last line is almost verbatim what Mr. AE said last night when I told him the OP's story.
Be very careful drSix.
Oh good lord. So, I was too nice to the gardener and I should move because I fired him after he stole from me? Hyperbole much! Thankfully, I've been here long enough to have some friends in low places myself, with ears to the ground.
His previous employer has fired and re hired him several times. In fact, he told us about his thievery and dishonesty with the statement "Sometimes you need to cut off the rats tail".
Now, I will admit our part in this nonsense. But, I am certainly not to blame. Lesson learned anyways.
His previous employer has fired and re hired him several times. In fact, he told us about his thievery and dishonesty with the statement "Sometimes you need to cut off the rats tail".
Now, I will admit our part in this nonsense. But, I am certainly not to blame. Lesson learned anyways.
My opinion as both a manager of people, a parent and prospective Nobel Prize Nominee:
We North Americans are for the most part poor communicators. We beat around the bush never actually saying what we mean or avoiding those conversations that make us uncomfortable. Back home, when I hired a new employee I sat them down, read them the "riot act" and then asked if they still wished to work for me.
I do the same thing here in the DR. Whether they be a contractor being hired to perform a single task/project or a domestic to work around the house on an ongoing basis, we sit, I explain my expectations and in plain language that cannot be misconstrued as anything other than clear directives, I outline all the rules.
I tell them they will be treated fairly, paid promptly and paid well for good work. In return they are expected to consistently provide work that meets or exceeds my expectations. If they need something that is not already provided to do their job, they should ask for it before using the bottle of muriatic acid on the coffee table because they have run out of general purpose Lysol or before they take a part off the garage door to fix the toilet. They know up front that I will be checking the quality of their work and if I am not satisfied, they need to do it again or they are free to quit.
I have a closet for the exclusive use of the Maid. Anything inside this closet she can use as she sees fit. Anything not in the closet, she must ask before touching.
For help around the house, I provide the tools and supplies needed to do the work. When supply levels are getting low, tell me and I will resupply. If I am not told and the supply of something is exhausted and they cannot do their work, they will be sent home without pay that day.
The gardener is given the tools needed to do the job that I want the way I want it done. I explain that cutting the grass with a machete is frowned upon and teach him to properly use & maintain the provided equipment. If he breaks it due to abuse or negligence (running a motor without checking if there is enough oil) then he is expected to fix it, quit (be fired depending on how costly the mistake) or do without going forward.
As for "borrowing" my things. Quite simply I tell domestics and those working on my property that if they borrow something without asking first, I will fire them on the spot, probably shoot them and feed them to my dogs or my carnivorous pitcher plants. There is no room for any misunderstandings here and no excuse for a creative interpretation of the rule later on. They are told the answer is no unless either my wife or I specifically say yes.
I do not hire full time help. Each person is hired for X number days/hours per week or by the job for contractors/handyman and I am clear to point out that just because they come back each week, they are not employees, are responsible for getting to and from work on time at their expense. I do not provide meals so they should bring their own lunch if they wish to eat during one of their breaks. If ongoing transportation costs are an issue, speak up now and let's renegotiate the daily price they will receive. Don't come to me in two months saying you can no longer afford to take the guagua or that you are starving. For ongoing help I prefer they come twice a week for four or five hours rather than one day for 8 + hours. This way it is harder for workers to believe that I have a claim to all of their available time any given day. If you need someone to be at your home for full days more than once a week, you run the risk of running afoul of the labor laws and liquidation payments here. Apparently providing transportation and/or feeding the help are seen here as indicators of a potential employer/employee relationship.
Contractors are the same. They know they need to supply their own tools and materials, they are expected to do quality work and work until I am satisfied. I approach each project with the expectation that the first person/company will not perform to my expectations and I will need to hire a 2nd to complete the job. This doesn't usually happen, but I am ready for the situation should it arise. Payments for projects are structured in such a way and on a schedule that allows me to ensure that the work meets my expectations. - I learned this lesson the hard way here. Materials paid for that were never delivered before the contractor disappeared or paying too much up front so that the contractor is tempted to take the cash and run.
I don't hire people that I cannot communicate with. This limits my available pool of potential workers, but the extra hassle far outweighs having to deal with misunderstandings and failed expectations.
In the end, if you don't specifically tell your children "not to have unprotected sex" and they do, then you have no one to blame but yourself. If you detail the rules and your expectations at the beginning, then it is really easy to justify a needed change in personnel at a later time. Not getting stuck in the employee/employer relationship here is a big advantage. When in doubt, put it in writing and have them sign it. If they won't, find someone who will.
By not having "the talk" at length and in detail at the very beginning of the relationship and until there are no more questions, one shouldn't be surprised when issues arise later on. It's not a comfortable thing to talk to an adult about deceit, theft, breakage, but it is necessary and after you do it a couple of times, it gets much easier. It's like our kids. We would prefer to assume that they will always make the best choices in any situation but we were kids once and we already know that this isn't going to happen without a discussion and a certainty of repercussions if the offered direction is disregarded.
None of this is a guarantee that one will not encounter issues with the help. But it does make for a very easy final conversation should the need arise and maybe just maybe, give a worker just enough excuse to consider whether doing what they have been told not to do is worth the consequences. Maybe not, but their termination will not be a surprise and you won't have to listen to the "I just thought..." excuses.
We North Americans are for the most part poor communicators. We beat around the bush never actually saying what we mean or avoiding those conversations that make us uncomfortable. Back home, when I hired a new employee I sat them down, read them the "riot act" and then asked if they still wished to work for me.
I do the same thing here in the DR. Whether they be a contractor being hired to perform a single task/project or a domestic to work around the house on an ongoing basis, we sit, I explain my expectations and in plain language that cannot be misconstrued as anything other than clear directives, I outline all the rules.
I tell them they will be treated fairly, paid promptly and paid well for good work. In return they are expected to consistently provide work that meets or exceeds my expectations. If they need something that is not already provided to do their job, they should ask for it before using the bottle of muriatic acid on the coffee table because they have run out of general purpose Lysol or before they take a part off the garage door to fix the toilet. They know up front that I will be checking the quality of their work and if I am not satisfied, they need to do it again or they are free to quit.
I have a closet for the exclusive use of the Maid. Anything inside this closet she can use as she sees fit. Anything not in the closet, she must ask before touching.
For help around the house, I provide the tools and supplies needed to do the work. When supply levels are getting low, tell me and I will resupply. If I am not told and the supply of something is exhausted and they cannot do their work, they will be sent home without pay that day.
The gardener is given the tools needed to do the job that I want the way I want it done. I explain that cutting the grass with a machete is frowned upon and teach him to properly use & maintain the provided equipment. If he breaks it due to abuse or negligence (running a motor without checking if there is enough oil) then he is expected to fix it, quit (be fired depending on how costly the mistake) or do without going forward.
As for "borrowing" my things. Quite simply I tell domestics and those working on my property that if they borrow something without asking first, I will fire them on the spot, probably shoot them and feed them to my dogs or my carnivorous pitcher plants. There is no room for any misunderstandings here and no excuse for a creative interpretation of the rule later on. They are told the answer is no unless either my wife or I specifically say yes.
I do not hire full time help. Each person is hired for X number days/hours per week or by the job for contractors/handyman and I am clear to point out that just because they come back each week, they are not employees, are responsible for getting to and from work on time at their expense. I do not provide meals so they should bring their own lunch if they wish to eat during one of their breaks. If ongoing transportation costs are an issue, speak up now and let's renegotiate the daily price they will receive. Don't come to me in two months saying you can no longer afford to take the guagua or that you are starving. For ongoing help I prefer they come twice a week for four or five hours rather than one day for 8 + hours. This way it is harder for workers to believe that I have a claim to all of their available time any given day. If you need someone to be at your home for full days more than once a week, you run the risk of running afoul of the labor laws and liquidation payments here. Apparently providing transportation and/or feeding the help are seen here as indicators of a potential employer/employee relationship.
Contractors are the same. They know they need to supply their own tools and materials, they are expected to do quality work and work until I am satisfied. I approach each project with the expectation that the first person/company will not perform to my expectations and I will need to hire a 2nd to complete the job. This doesn't usually happen, but I am ready for the situation should it arise. Payments for projects are structured in such a way and on a schedule that allows me to ensure that the work meets my expectations. - I learned this lesson the hard way here. Materials paid for that were never delivered before the contractor disappeared or paying too much up front so that the contractor is tempted to take the cash and run.
I don't hire people that I cannot communicate with. This limits my available pool of potential workers, but the extra hassle far outweighs having to deal with misunderstandings and failed expectations.
In the end, if you don't specifically tell your children "not to have unprotected sex" and they do, then you have no one to blame but yourself. If you detail the rules and your expectations at the beginning, then it is really easy to justify a needed change in personnel at a later time. Not getting stuck in the employee/employer relationship here is a big advantage. When in doubt, put it in writing and have them sign it. If they won't, find someone who will.
By not having "the talk" at length and in detail at the very beginning of the relationship and until there are no more questions, one shouldn't be surprised when issues arise later on. It's not a comfortable thing to talk to an adult about deceit, theft, breakage, but it is necessary and after you do it a couple of times, it gets much easier. It's like our kids. We would prefer to assume that they will always make the best choices in any situation but we were kids once and we already know that this isn't going to happen without a discussion and a certainty of repercussions if the offered direction is disregarded.
None of this is a guarantee that one will not encounter issues with the help. But it does make for a very easy final conversation should the need arise and maybe just maybe, give a worker just enough excuse to consider whether doing what they have been told not to do is worth the consequences. Maybe not, but their termination will not be a surprise and you won't have to listen to the "I just thought..." excuses.
I got news for you!!!
Stealing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, or stealing food, It's all STEALING!!!!!!!!
Too many of we foreigners here,over look theft by Dominicans because, to us we have sooooooo much, & they have Sooooo little.
That's the same flawed mentality that the Dominicanos use to justify their stealing!
To far to many Dominicans, they see something they want, they just take it, no feelings of guilt, or remorse, just happiness at getting it!
Important point has been made in this thread a few times, I'll say it yet again.
They don't just steal from "Gringos" they steal from each other, and LOVE to steal from Family too!
It's just that many Gringos fail to take the needed actions to protect what they have.
Thieves take the road of least resistance.
Telling us what people do in "Other Countries, is not only against DR1's charter, ( Dominican Stuff Only"), except in the "OT Forum", but using bad behavior to mitigate bad behavior, has never made ANY SENSE to me!!!
The DR1,"PC Dominican Spin Doctors" like to post, "Over & Over & Over" that, 2 Things, #1,if you post anything criticizing bad Dominican behaviors, that you "Hate Dominicans", and #2, If you hate living in the DR so much, get out!!!
And mostly from posters who don't even live here.
To them I say,.."If you LOVE the DR Sooooooooooooooo Much, ....MOVE HERE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND, in order to solve a problem, you must first realize that you have a problem, and the DR, & it's people, have a lot of "Realizing" AND "Problem Solving" to do, as do our "DR Spin Doctors"!!!!!
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Mr cdn_gringo I think you covered it all...
No blurred lines in that approach at all.. Set the expectations from the begin and stick to them.
great info. hopefully people will read it and absorb it , Rather than make excuses for themselves..
There was one sentence in the OP's last post that is especially troubling. but i dont want to quote paste it and rile him further.. but something to the effect of " I will accept my part , BUT it was not my fault"..
thats like saying its not my fault for getting bitten..
i got news for you, it does not matter at this point, either learn from what transpired and dont make those cultural boundary mistakes with the Hired Help any more, or the same crap will happen again.
it does not matter what WE think , or feel is right or wrong.. We are not going to re educate or change them. Just try not to trigger their BAD Habits.
If you in the water with sharks, if you dont do certain things you probably wont get bit or molested, if you DO you probably will. Dont suit up and splash around like a baby seal (even if you are not one) and expect the shark to play nice with you.
No blurred lines in that approach at all.. Set the expectations from the begin and stick to them.
great info. hopefully people will read it and absorb it , Rather than make excuses for themselves..
There was one sentence in the OP's last post that is especially troubling. but i dont want to quote paste it and rile him further.. but something to the effect of " I will accept my part , BUT it was not my fault"..
thats like saying its not my fault for getting bitten..
i got news for you, it does not matter at this point, either learn from what transpired and dont make those cultural boundary mistakes with the Hired Help any more, or the same crap will happen again.
it does not matter what WE think , or feel is right or wrong.. We are not going to re educate or change them. Just try not to trigger their BAD Habits.
If you in the water with sharks, if you dont do certain things you probably wont get bit or molested, if you DO you probably will. Dont suit up and splash around like a baby seal (even if you are not one) and expect the shark to play nice with you.
drSix is clearly a guy with a head on his shoulders. He got duped and I appreciate him taking the time and making the effort to detail his story. As a long time DR1 inhabitant, I expect drSix was anticipating a certain amount of "you bloody fool" replies. This situation will happen to everyone of us who bring outsiders into our home on a regular basis. Eventually someone will steal something, break something, or do something that causes us to reevaluate an ongoing relationship.
Being the person he comes across as in his posts, I am sure the next time, it will be much harder to get one over on the Six family. None of us are ever completely insulated from difficulty because we cannot control the actions and decision of others...ever.
Being the person he comes across as in his posts, I am sure the next time, it will be much harder to get one over on the Six family. None of us are ever completely insulated from difficulty because we cannot control the actions and decision of others...ever.
Here is the problem I have with the DR Spin Doctors (TM to CCCC). If a gringo gets burned by befriending a Dom, then they were a sucker for taking that person in and not knowing that the person was "obviously" out to screw them. But also if they don't befriend the Dominicans then they are not integrating into the society and that is why they are getting screwed and of course they had the same hangups in their previous life that won't go away by geography ... blah,blah, blah...
This is a contradiction. I know, shocking that one would have a contradiction in the DR, but basically 2 spins whenever something happens.
After a falling out with a Dominicana (realizing I got scammed) I was speaking with one of these Gringo Spin Doctors. He told me that I was seeing too many girls over there. I told him I was just seeing this 1 girl. Without missing a beat he said I should have been seeing more girls and that he warned me how aggressive these girls were.
These people have some financial interest and just don't tell the truth. It is never the place, it is something you need to change about yourself. IT IS THE PLACE!!!
Just curious , in that childrens story about about the Frog, the Scorpion and the River..
Which would you blame ?
I see some clearly blaming the frog, some the scorpion, and NOW Im even seeing some of you blaming the RIVER for being there and causing the whoe scenario..
pretty fascinating..
Which would you blame ?
I see some clearly blaming the frog, some the scorpion, and NOW Im even seeing some of you blaming the RIVER for being there and causing the whoe scenario..
pretty fascinating..
I have to give you that one, pretty funny. Maybe the river was polluted with Nuclear waste that caused the Scorpion to act that way. No, it was the waste that caused the Frog to act so naively.
Agreed, it was the polluted river.
Whatever most people say on dr1 I do the opposite and it seems to work out ok so far
. Jajaja.yep, coupled with "it is nothing for you..." to either replace what they stole, broke or just want. When you say let me show you how I got it, how to use it, how to get one for yourself then they respond "that's not worth it", "thats too hard" or the everso disrespectful "for what?" Coupled with the thievery and foolishness is a belief that they deserve the things you have. And that in itself is a fat tub of doo-doo but then you watch them break their own things from callous and careless use of those things....THEN blAme you for giving them "cheap' stuff.
There is an overwhelming sense of importance they get just from having foreign people here. Countless times you get told "You are lucky to be from a country that works" which leads to further biases that Foreigners are stupid but they come from countries that work therefore through childish logic "We are smarter than you but our country doesnt work." I m sitting there thinking "Uhm, if the country is made of people AND it works maybe it is because that country works/labors collectively for that effort. If this country is made of people and it doesnt work maybe it because the people here dont want to work but look for an easy out for everything in the world. That and $2 might get you a small cup of coffee.
Sorry in advance, as this may be off topic for my .02, and perhaps not what your post was about..
but if i may just say..
THIS " its nothing for you" coming from a Dominican mouth, are the words I DESPISE the most..
you could literally help them buy Cinderblocks and cement for them to build a HOUSE for their family and kids, or perhaps help them in some other very meaningful way... and they will later at some point have the Audacity to use those words " its nothing , for you"..
Its one of the few things that really deeply bother me.. not sure if its a defense mechanism , or a way for them to cope with accepting handouts, or what but everytime it happens it just makes me more resolved to just not stick my neck out for anyone.
Its like they have no clue that we worked hard for our $, and money does not grow on the Gringo money tree ..
sorry for the sidetrack.
More importantly for DR1 commentators is, which river are we talking about?
Clearly neither the frog nor the scorpion are at fault. Everyone knows that the socio-economic conditions in the country through which the river flows is the biggest single factor in providing justifiable excuses for antisocial behavior. It goes without saying that had the Govt done its job and provided a bridge then these two diversified interests would not have been brought together in the first place thus resulting in an inevitable clash of cultures and ideologies.
Those who prefer to look to science for explanations would explain the events like this: A sudden change in water flow caused by a full moon (of which the frog should have known about because his mating is tied to phases of the moon), may have caused the frog to lurch, knocking the scorpion off balance and in a desperate attempt not to fall into the water and drown (a whole other DR1 discussion) accidentally stung the frog trying to steady itself. The scorpion held no malice for the frog it's just that the scorpion hasn't been on the receiving end of swimming lessons or boat building classes that the frog should have felt compelled to provide knowing that there are disadvantaged scorpions living nearby.
On second thought, I now choose to blame the butterfly who by flapping its wings in a far off unrelated country, created a change in the wind pattern (a la chaos theory) that then caused a ripple on the river which caused the frog to lurch etc. Neither the frog or the scorpion are at fault as everything is entirely out of their control and there is no point in trying to coexist amicably even when the demise of one will certainly bring about the demise of the other.
If the majority don't buy that explanation, I am prepared to propose that fumes from the environmental pollution in the river may have caused one or both parties to become delirious and have a knee jerk reaction that freaked the other out bringing about a completely unexpected and unforeseeable conclusion.
Don't like that one either? How about, frogs and scorpions have never really gotten together to share and understand how their differences, feelings and perceptions might be the foundation of a relationship that does not see one party continuously using the other as a means to an end.
After listening to everyone I am now prepared to accept that the frog should have just preemptively eaten the scorpion because good samaritan laws or lack of them ultimately would lead to the frog being incarcerated for offering to help. The scorpion being on the receiving end of this help is culturally predisposed to take advantage of the situation and either sue the frog for not providing a smooth enough ride or sticking the frog on principle when he declines to take the scorpion back across the river again when his business on the far bank is concluded.
Clearly frogs and scorpions are never going to be able to get along and one shouldn't hire either to work in your enclave or you will get exactly what you deserve.
Okay, so here we are now... I just hired a new nanny, maid ect. She is currently sitting at the kitchen table looking at her phone. Has been about 20 min or so. Now, she works a 10 hour day, M-F. The house is spotless, dishes all clean, laundry done, baby is sleeping. It's a long day, so I don't mind that she takes a break. Unless I have her polish the wine glasses, I literally have nothing for her to do!
No. It is a guilt trip to get you to give, usually for something stupid or wasteful or foolish. "You have so much and we have so little" is the same guilt trip. When you hear that you are being conned. If you are lucky you may hear this one also "You probably need it more than I do..." when you deny them whatever they are lying to you about. Like for instance...
"You probably need YOUR OWN MONEY more than I do otherwise you wouldnt mind all 6 of us mooching off of you." "You have so much and we have so little that you should want us to MOOCH(<--a verb now) you. We are all sharing(of course it is you who is footing the bill for everyone so....reality check).
What the other guy said about the Hard hand is correct. La Mano Dura is the most efficient way to proceed.
The ol swinging chair outside was a little moldy, needs a good cleaning. She's on it! I showed her how to make a rum and cuba lire last night, she picked it up right away. As long as she can make a good drink, and doesn't beat the children much, I am happy.