Oh oh, Norberis is not happy about this...

nanita

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Do you believe things cease to exist when you close your eyes? Your personal experience not being equivalent to general reality has been my premise since the beginning, lmao.

You said it was "acceptable" and the people knowingly partake in open relations, meanwhile in the west is openly glorified and depicted as quirky new age relations dynamics. One is clearly more accepted culturally. This is not debatable.

I asked what I asked another user, in a country of 10 million+ people how many do you know that are okay with their spouse cheating on them and THEN hilariously spill the beans to random expats? I'm legit curious about the methodology.
And what about YOUR personal experience? How many people do YOU know in a 'open' or 'polyamorous' relationship? I'll wait. Social media is NOT REAL LIFE. Certain ideas are pushed to further an agenda.
Dominicans DO cheat, and many women look the other way. Anyone who has spent any time there is well aware of this.
Not sure what your point is and I have no dog in this fight. I've never seriously dated a Dominican despite being veryyyyy tempted as their attractive faces and bodies are overshadowed by their bad behaviour. Sigh.
 

terantius

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And what about YOUR personal experience? How many people do YOU know in a 'open' or 'polyamorous' relationship? I'll wait. Social media is NOT REAL LIFE. Certain ideas are pushed to further an agenda.
Dominicans DO cheat, and many women look the other way. Anyone who has spent any time there is well aware of this.
Not sure what your point is and I have no dog in this fight. I've never seriously dated a Dominican despite being veryyyyy tempted as their attractive faces and bodies are overshadowed by their bad behaviour. Sigh.
I don't use my personal experience to generalize entire nations. I brought social media and the west's promotion of quirky new age behavior as parameter for "acceptability" ON A CULTURAL LEVEL which you brought up. Unless you think the content produced by individuals about their particular subculture are all fake, my example is 100 times more visible and thus accepted than the hypothetical situation of people telling random expats the nuances of their relationship values, THAT THEY ACTUALLY ACCEPT SILENTLY lol. This is what you said. Which is automatically contradictory.

I'm still wondering how is it that you guys know that people SILENTLY ACCEPT cheating, everyone seems to ignore this key part.

Now we go to "many dominican women"

I thought the heart of the conversation was that it happens in the D.R. more often than every other nation you guys visited where natives spill the beans on the nuances of their relationship and how they're okay with cheating.

My dog in this fight is "How in God's green earth are all of you so familiar with taboos of the general Dominican population and all the other countries you've visited to create a ranking of relative acceptance?"

I just want to know how exactly you reach that conclusion.
 

nanita

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I don't use my personal experience to generalize entire nations. I brought social media and the west's promotion of quirky new age behavior as parameter for "acceptability" ON A CULTURAL LEVEL which you brought up. Unless you think the content produced by individuals about their particular subculture are all fake, my example is 100 times more visible and thus accepted than the hypothetical situation of people telling random expats the nuances of their relationship values, THAT THEY ACTUALLY ACCEPT SILENTLY lol. This is what you said. Which is automatically contradictory.

I'm still wondering how is it that you guys know that people SILENTLY ACCEPT cheating, everyone seems to ignore this key part.

Now we go to "many dominican women"

I thought the heart of the conversation was that it happens in the D.R. more often than every other nation you guys visited where natives spill the beans on the nuances of their relationship and how they're okay with cheating.

My dog in this fight is "How in God's green earth are all of you so familiar with taboos of the general Dominican population and all the other countries you've visited to create a ranking of relative acceptance?"

I just want to know how exactly you reach that conclusion.
You don't seem to know a whole lot about Dominican culture.
Let me ask you something: if you hold an opinion, and multiple people, many people, all of whom have more direct experience than you do, contradict you, who is more likely to be correct?
Why do you think so many members of the board, with their DECADES of DIRECT EXPERIENCE with Dominican culture, think you are wrong?
Do you have a Dominican partner that you are concerned about? The reason I ask is the undertone of hysteria in your posts.
 

NALs

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Do you believe things cease to exist when you close your eyes? Your personal experience not being equivalent to general reality has been my premise since the beginning, lmao.

You said it was "acceptable" and the people knowingly partake in open relations, meanwhile in the west is openly glorified and depicted as quirky new age relations dynamics. One is clearly more accepted culturally. This is not debatable.

I asked what I asked another user, in a country of 10 million+ people how many do you know that are okay with their spouse cheating on them and THEN hilariously spill the beans to random expats? I'm legit curious about the methodology.
The average person doesn't know (and will never meet) even 1% of the population of any country, province, city and I think that is basically your point.

In general, expats are exposed more than the general local population to certain things given that for the most part they are citizens of at least one other developed country. That means that certain risks that expats face (when looking for a local girlfriend-becomes-wife or boyfriend-becomes-husband) will be greater for them than the general population, such as someone marrying them simply for a visa. That's one risk that is eliminated if you don't have citizenship of another country or a resident visa to another country (and that includes most people that marry in the DR in any given year.) A person that marries for a visa but makes you think they are in love with you when they aren't is a perfect example of being prone to cheat. That's when the proverbial "Fausto" comes to play, that "cousin" that is always around and she assures you he is like a brother to her. Right, like incest doesn't happen. lol

The point is that expats are exposed to more reasons for a girlfriend/spouse to cheat on them than the general population. As seen in this forum which is frequented mostly by expats and foreign visitors, expats do talk among themselves and the topics of conversation will range the gamut including their perception of infidelity mostly based on their experience and/or the experience of other expats, particularly those in relationship with locals. Can't blame people for basing their perception on their experiences, but when those perceptions are extrapolated to represent an entire society is where things become at odds with locals. More often than not those perceptions are simply that, but more often doesn't mean all the time. From time to time they will be right on the money.
 
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terantius

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You don't seem to know a whole lot about Dominican culture.
Let me ask you something: if you hold an opinion, and multiple people, many people, all of whom have more direct experience than you do, contradict you, who is more likely to be correct?
Why do you think so many members of the board, with their DECADES of DIRECT EXPERIENCE with Dominican culture, think you are wrong?
Do you have a Dominican partner that you are concerned about? The reason I ask is the undertone of hysteria in your posts.
I know more about Dominican culture than you will ever be able to know in your life time. My experience is not based on an artificial and superficial frame of reference created by money disparity and being an outsider.

You don't have more experience than me. The only people that claim Dominicans are okay with being cheated on are non-dominicans that can't even begin to answer the simple question of how exactly you know the nuances of people's personal relationship as you claim that they're also hush hush about it. Avoiding the question like the plague.

There is 2 dominicans telling you how insane what you're saying is.
Our take in Dominican culture>>>>Expats

People think the earth is flat. 10 people in a forum don't reshape physical reality, in fact, it probably makes you less reliable because of the language barrier and being outsiders to the culture
The average person doesn't know (and will never meet) even 1% of the population of any country, province, city and I think that is basically your point.

In general, expats are exposed more than the general local population to certain things given that for the most part they are citizens of at least one other developed country. That means that certain risks that expats face (when looking for a local girlfriend-becomes-wife or boyfriend-becomes-husband) will be greater for them than the general population, such as someone marrying them simply for a visa. That's one risk that is eliminated if you don't have citizenship of another country or a resident visa to another country (and that includes most people that marry in the DR in any given year.) A person that marries for a visa but makes you think they are in love with you when they aren't is a perfect example of being prone to cheat. That's when the proverbial "Fausto" comes to play, that "cousin" that is always around and she assures you he is like a brother to her. Right, like incest doesn't happen. lol

The point is that expats are exposed to more reasons for a girlfriend/spouse to cheat on them than the general population. As seen in this forum which is frequented mostly by expats and foreign visitors, expats do talk among themselves and the topics of conversation will range the gamut including their perception of infidelity mostly based on their experience and/or the experience of other expats, particularly those in relationship with locals. Can't blame people for basing their perception on their experiences, but when those perceptions are extrapolated to represent an entire society is where things become at odds with locals. More often than not those perceptions are simply that, but more often doesn't mean all the time. From time to time they will be right on the money.
I can accept their personal experiences and haven't doubted their validity. That's why I asked for numbers and they all hastily continue to avoid it. But it is completely insane how wrong they are since Dominicans being possessive is such a strong cultural trait that it is so silly to say the opposite so I had to ask them to at least try to justify that position.
 

bob saunders

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You don't seem to know a whole lot about Dominican culture.
Let me ask you something: if you hold an opinion, and multiple people, many people, all of whom have more direct experience than you do, contradict you, who is more likely to be correct?
Why do you think so many members of the board, with their DECADES of DIRECT EXPERIENCE with Dominican culture, think you are wrong?
Do you have a Dominican partner that you are concerned about? The reason I ask is the undertone of hysteria in your posts.
Oh, I think he knows a lot about Dominican culture and may even be Dominican. I am still learning about Dominican culture even though I have been married to a Dominican woman for 23 years. I am a good listener and am interested in culture and history. I pay attention to all the things I hear, and I say that in my opinion cheating is not culturally cool with Dominicans, even though many are hypocritical about it.
 

nanita

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I know more about Dominican culture than you will ever be able to know in your life time. My experience is not based on an artificial and superficial frame of reference created by money disparity and being an outsider.

You don't have more experience than me. The only people that claim Dominicans are okay with being cheated on are non-dominicans that can't even begin to answer the simple question of how exactly you know the nuances of people's personal relationship as you claim that they're also hush hush about it. Avoiding the question like the plague.

There is 2 dominicans telling you how insane what you're saying is.
Our take in Dominican culture>>>>Expats

People think the earth is flat. 10 people in a forum don't reshape physical reality, in fact, it probably makes you less reliable because of the language barrier and being outsiders to the culture

I can accept their personal experiences and haven't doubted their validity. That's why I asked for numbers and they all hastily continue to avoid it. But it is completely insane how wrong they are since Dominicans being possessive is such a strong cultural trait that it is so silly to say the opposite so I had to ask them to at least try to justify that position.
Very well then. I will articulate my lived Dominican experience and resulting opinion and then you can do the same.
Dominican men cheat more frequently than men in my home country, Canada. Dominican culture pays lip service to this being unacceptable, but many people simply look the other way, especially if it's done discreetly.
I'd like to know your opinion now. Please be specific. Do Dominican men cheat more, less or the same as men in North America? Or western Europe? When Dominican men cheat, how frequently does the marriage dissolve?
Of your Dominican male friends, family and acquaintances, how many are faithful to their partners? Of your Dominican female friends, family and acquaintances, how many have ended a marriage because of infidelity?
Please don't respond with another diatribe about expats, polyamory and the flat earth. Just answer the questions.
 

terantius

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Very well then. I will articulate my lived Dominican experience and resulting opinion and then you can do the same.
Dominican men cheat more frequently than men in my home country, Canada. Dominican culture pays lip service to this being unacceptable, but many people simply look the other way, especially if it's done discreetly.
I'd like to know your opinion now. Please be specific. Do Dominican men cheat more, less or the same as men in North America? Or western Europe? When Dominican men cheat, how frequently does the marriage dissolve?
Of your Dominican male friends, family and acquaintances, how many are faithful to their partners? Of your Dominican female friends, family and acquaintances, how many have ended a marriage because of infidelity?
Please don't respond with another diatribe about expats, polyamory and the flat earth. Just answer the questions.
Personal experiences don't matter.
Why artificially reduce it to men when it was a general claim about D.R?

But

I know about 2 marriages breaking because of emotional cheating through internet chats.
1 marriage breaking because of actual cheating.
1 marriage continuing post man cheating.
That's a whooping 1/5, so we can extrapolate 20% of Dominicans cheaters get away with it and their spouse accept it silently it? Is this how expat math works?

But before you get hyped about not personally knowing anyone from north america that cheats.. The latest survey I can find done by a reputable org (GSS one of the biggest survey orgs in the country associated with the University of Chicago) says that 20 percent of American men cheat while married, 13 percent of women do. Data from 2016. I won't use Canada because the latest one I can find is from 2001. And though you said North America, I presume you didn't mean Mexico.

But the absolute beauty is that 53 percent of those who cheated are still with their spouse.
So my anecdotal experience says 20 percent of Dominicans can get away with it, while a nation wide survey of Americans says 53% of them can get away with it?


cheating3new-w640.png
 

nanita

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Personal experiences don't matter.
Why artificially reduce it to men when it was a general claim about D.R?

But

I know about 2 marriages breaking because of emotional cheating through internet chats.
1 marriage breaking because of actual cheating.
1 marriage continuing post man cheating.
That's a whooping 1/5, so we can extrapolate 20% of Dominicans cheaters get away with it and their spouse accept it silently it? Is this how expat math works?

But before you get hyped about not personally knowing anyone from north america that cheats.. The latest survey I can find done by a reputable org (GSS one of the biggest survey orgs in the country associated with the University of Chicago) says that 20 percent of American men cheat while married, 13 percent of women do. Data from 2016. I won't use Canada because the latest one I can find is from 2001. And though you said North America, I presume you didn't mean Mexico.

But the absolute beauty is that 53 percent of those who cheated are still with their spouse.
So my anecdotal experience says 20 percent of Dominicans can get away with it, while a nation wide survey of Americans says 53% of them can get away with it?


cheating3new-w640.png
But your reply doesn't make any sense. I don't see the world the way you do. I put stock in what my eyes and ears tell me. I don't discount my own experience and the experiences of people I know. I believe that when there is smoke, often there's fire. I believe stereotypes exist for a reason. That's me.

You didn't answer my questions. I'd be curious to know your answer to the first one. In your opinion, do Dominican men cheat less, more or the same amount as North American men? Please note that I am well aware that Canadian men (and women!) cheat. But that's not the question.

I'll restate my position: Dominican men cheat more frequently than men in my home country, Canada. Dominican culture pays lip service to this being unacceptable, but many people simply look the other way, especially if it's done discreetly.

What part of that do you disagree with and why?
 
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terantius

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But your reply doesn't make any sense. I don't see the world the way you do. I put stock in what my eyes and ears tell me. I don't discount my own experience and the experiences of people I know. I believe that when there is smoke, often there's fire. I believe stereotypes exist for a reason. That's me.

You didn't answer my questions. I'd be curious to know your answer to the first one. In your opinion, do Dominican men cheat less, more or the same amount as North American men? Please note that I am well aware that Canadian men (and women!) cheat. But that's not the question.

I'll restate my position: Dominican men cheat more frequently than men in my home country, Canada. Dominican culture pays lip service to this being unacceptable, but many people simply look the other way, especially if it's done discreetly.

What part of that do you disagree with and why?
My reply doesn't make any sense? You asked for my personal experience and I gave you exactly that. I just happened to add a study from one of the countries that you mentioned that happens to have an updated research.

Stereotypes are helpful but you can't replace them with hard data. If you're going to make assertions about entire countries they're not reliable. People's perceptions can be wrong.

I don't know how much Canadians in general cheat, I have no way of knowing that. Alternative lifestyles are a 1000 times more common in Canada, including open relations and polygamous ones.

I disagree with the part where you're making up numbers of instances with no possible way of knowing it for either country.
The same way you asserted that Dominicans cheat more than Americans, western europeans and Canadians and now you have to reduce it only to Canada? That preconception can be wrong with Canada too.
 

nanita

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My reply doesn't make any sense? You asked for my personal experience and I gave you exactly that. I just happened to add a study from one of the countries that you mentioned that happens to have an updated research.

Stereotypes are helpful but you can't replace them with hard data. If you're going to make assertions about entire countries they're not reliable. People's perceptions can be wrong.

I don't know how much Canadians in general cheat, I have no way of knowing that. Alternative lifestyles are a 1000 times more common in Canada, including open relations and polygamous ones.

I disagree with the part where you're making up numbers of instances with no possible way of knowing it for either country.
The same way you asserted that Dominicans cheat more than Americans, western europeans and Canadians and now you have to reduce it only to Canada? That preconception can be wrong with Canada too.
Allrighty then, you seem to be adamant that my position in wrong, while failing to state an alternative viewpoint. So I am not going to be able to continue to chat with you about this.
At the end of the day, Dominicans DO cheat (not all) and people tend to look the other way (not all). And this is more prevalent here than in my country and in many western, developed other countries.
I'm not hating on Dominican men. I've had WONDERFUL dance teachers and I have enjoyed dancing and socializing with Dominican men, I've enjoyed snuggling up on a moto with them, I've cooked for them and gone out on dates with them. I've done yoga with them and visited their homes. I've travelled with them, and asked them for help when I've had problems with appliances and people. I think Dominican men are lovely and handsome and sexy. Some of them are also very handy! BUT they are huge cheaters. Sorry.
I myself am in a complicated relationship with a hot and spicy Colombian man and I don't think he cheats on me but plenty of Colombian men cheat too!
 

Facepalm Supreme

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Guys with options exercise those options. When they have the resources to do so they exercise those options openly, and the situation remains stable. It is the biological imperative of the male of every mammalian species.

Biologically, monogamy is significantly less prevalent than polygyny.


"All expressions of true monogamy--whether characterized by short-term or long-term pairings--have long been considered to be a rarity in the animal kingdom. Nevertheless, since the advent, in the 1990s, of DNA fingerprinting--which is similar to paternity tests used in the courts--scientists have discovered that true monogamy is even rarer than previously believed."
 
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NALs

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I always find it interesting when animals that are known for not being capable of higher thinking and actions like humans are used as perfect examples for humanity to follow. Maybe we should follow a bear, a flamingo or a snake when it comes to signing contracts, writing, learning how to drive or even getting in an airplane. I'm sure anyone's cat pet can definitely be up there in the intelligence level once had by people like Albert Einstein. Afterall, quantum physics was invented by a gorilla. Hopefully, a groundhog can tell us what is the distance between point A and point B. Plus, we all know the design and construction of the home we live in and of all the furniture; the toothpaste and toothbrush, the clothes we wear is all done by hawks, dogs, and butterflies.

;)
 
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Facepalm Supreme

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I always find it interesting when animals that are known for not being capable of higher thinking and actions like humans are used as perfect examples for humanity to follow. Maybe we should follow a bear, a flamingo or a snake when it comes to signing contracts, writing, learning how to drive or even getting in an airplane. I'm sure anyone's cat pet can definitely be up there in the intelligence level once had by people like Albert Einstein. Afterall, quantum physics was invented by a gorilla. Hopefully, the groundhog can tell us what is the distance between point A and point B. Plus, we all know the design and construction of the home we live in and of all the furniture; the toothpaste and toothbrush, the coothes we wear is all done by hawks, dogs, and butterflies.

;)
Another disingenuous argument. Humans are categorically animals, and are beholden to the same proclivities, biology and behavior as are all animals. There are of course differences from species to species and from individual to individual but there are myriad similarities.

But I'll play your game. Anthropology is the study of the human animal in particular. Anthropologically humans are predominantly polygynous. This does not mean that every relationship is a polgynyous one but rather that when sustainable, those who have the resources and the will practice polygyny - men and women. It is beneficial to either sex for different reasons, which I won't go in to here. The wikipedia article on polygyny and or a Google search will provide plenty of resources however.

By contrast polyandry is extremely rare and only occurs under extremely limited circumstances but which still favor both parties. When polyandry is practiced it is almost exclusively familial - i.e. two brothers marry one woman. This permits individuals living in geographical regions where survival is exceedingly difficult to (relatively) safely harness the physical exploits of two men to support one family while (mostly) negating paternity concerns due to any children being by one or the other of the two brothers, thus still allowing the paternal line to be furthered.


3. Findings
Of the 1,231 societies listed in the 1980 Ethnographic Atlas, 186 were found to be monogamous; 453 had occasional polygyny; 588 had more frequent polygyny; and 4 had polyandry.[43] Some research that show that males living in polygynous marriages may live 12 percent longer.
 

Big

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along the same lines is the issue of sexual harassment. What would get you fired or demoted anywhere else is overlooked here. I have never seen so many men blow kisses, make comments about looks and make sounds like grunts etc. If much of that was done in any other working environment a pink slip would be handed out by lunch time.
 

Facepalm Supreme

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and make sounds like grunts etc.

:oops::oops::oops::oops:

So glad I'm not a woman. There is a lot of special snowflake behavior going on in the first world these days but there are absolutely some justified grievances that women have that they have been dealing with for a while. Sounds like being in a prison and having the other inmates indicate their interest in you.

Terrible. No one deserves to be treated like that. It shouldn't be illegal but I wouldn't tolerate that in my place of business.

At the same time I think officeplace romance is just fine when done respectfully/courteously and when no is taken for an answer with no hard feelings or negative energy in response.