On January 26 they will decide whether to send Kenyan troops to Haiti

Ecoman1949

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Announced months ago by Biden. The UN was hesitating so Biden upped the ante with roughly $250 million if I remember correctly. US mainstream media announced the deal. New York Times, Washington Post, etc. He had support from Trudeau. Cheaper than putting US military boots on Haitian soil.
 

El Hijo de Manolo

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Announced months ago by Biden. The UN was hesitating so Biden upped the ante with roughly $250 million if I remember correctly. US mainstream media announced the deal. New York Times, Washington Post, etc. He had support from Trudeau. Cheaper than putting US military boots on Haitian soil.
That was back in October. The cash came off the table when Kenya got the jitters and said no-go.
 
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NALs

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But, nobody that hires people pays attention to it.
Because the people in positions such as the one that Fadul had don't enforce that law because they don't want to. Remember what happened with Barick Gold. Billions of dollars to be made, but it just so happens the very same government Fadul was in forced Barrick to renegotiate. It was you either renegotiate or leave the DR. In the end the government got what it wants and the reason is simple, the government is the ultimate authority within its territory, not capital. Barrick is still doing business in the DR, but the have to,pay a much larger share to the DR government than initially.

The thing about Fadul is that he didn't grow up hearing that such and such of his ancestors did this during the Reconquest War, that such and such ancestor went through this during the Haitian invasions, that such and such ancestor did this during the eve of the independence, that such and such ancestor was this during the Restoration War, that such and such ancestor went through this during Lilís government or sone other etc. Unlike most if the Dominicans that surround him, none of his people were in the DR before the 1920's the furthest back in time.
 

NALs

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What happens in 1,000 years isn't the immediate concern.
But it has a play because the current reality didn't just appear out of nowhere. If what happened 1,000 years ago was different in all respects, no one alive today would be alive today. How many people currently alive wish they would had never been born? Wish for thrm or their parents or siblings or children to die? No? Well then, that no exist in part because of what haplened a 1,000 years ago.

This goes back even to that Fadul guy I mention in the previous post. If all Dominicans for whatever reason would had been eliminated and killed say 200 years ago, chances were still around for Fadul to be born since both of his parents were Fadul and Lebanese. What about Dominicana that today are descendants of those that woukd had been killed?
 

NALs

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Considering that the influx of homologous Haitians will happen, do they have a voodoo gene to introduce into the Dominican gene pool?
So far the DR seems to be safe from Muslim gene introduction.
But what may the Kenyans introduce if they should arrive?
Surely different results than the Nepalese Peacekeepers, I imagine.

Mysterious ways of international politics.

However, the more things change the more they stay the same.
This reminds me of those that think the Dominican-Haitian issue is due to racism. A perfect example would be José Francisco Peña Gómez (his original name was Oggi Pie). Both of his parents were Haitians and his name corresponded that a Dominican family adopted him and gave him their last names.

Hipólito Mejía was one of José Francisco Peña Gómez's closest friend and he has said on several instances that one of Peña's issues was recognizing that he was Haitian. He completely denied that and even invented that his mother was from some town in the Dominican south, the name of the town I can't remember at the moment. Peggy Cabral, one of his ex-wives, during the issue regarding the regularization plan (Peña died in 1998, so this was well after he was gone) said that she went to Haiti to speak with his mother who was still alive then.

As if that was not enough, one of Peña's son appeared in a newspaper article where he was essentially denouncing the massive Haitian illegal immigration to the DR. I shouldn't have to say the obvious, but he was at least half of Haitian descent given who was his father.

The DR can be fully Haitianized and the anti-Haitian feeling of many will remain intact. The reason is like getting sick with pneumonia but people insist you have AIDS. The treatment? Well, medicine to treat AIDS, of course. Everyone knows that's how you will get better since you have AIDS, right? :unsure:
 

NALs

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When you look into Dominican history, more often than not the greatest events done by the Dominican state towards Haitians in the DR has been by Dominicans with sone Haitian ancestry, Trujillo is probably the most well knwn, but there is slso Balaguer who was related to Heureaux, he himself a Dominican president in the 1890's who's mother was from Saint Thomas and father was a merchant from Haiti, his parents both met in Puerto Plata where each of them moved to. Hereaux was born in Puerto Plata. His regimen favored a scheme of attracting farmers deom the Canary Islands and settling them along the border (which was different from today's as back then the border was that agreed by Spain and Francd in 1777) as a way to slow down Haitian encroachment into Dominican land.

This was Hereaux.

JlzPmMv.webp


Trujillo got a lot of influence from Hereaux, particularly regarding many of the dressing style for official government events.

Then you take all the issues created against many Haitians in Haiti itself (including massacres due to color, most massacres that have happen on the island has been of a black regime in power in Haiti vs the mulattoes of Haiti who on average are light skin) which the perpetrator were alk Haitians and wondering if having at least some Haitian ancestry to order horrible things on the Haitians is a requisite becones a legitimate question.
 

XQT

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When you look into Dominican history, more often than not the greatest events done by the Dominican state towards Haitians in the DR has been by Dominicans with sone Haitian ancestry, Trujillo is probably the most well knwn, but there is slso Balaguer who was related to Heureaux, he himself a Dominican president in the 1890's who's mother was from Saint Thomas and father was a merchant from Haiti, his parents both met in Puerto Plata where each of them moved to. Hereaux was born in Puerto Plata. His regimen favored a scheme of attracting farmers deom the Canary Islands and settling them along the border (which was different from today's as back then the border was that agreed by Spain and Francd in 1777) as a way to slow down Haitian encroachment into Dominican land.

This was Hereaux.

JlzPmMv.webp


Trujillo got a lot of influence from Hereaux, particularly regarding many of the dressing style for official government events.

Then you take all the issues created against many Haitians in Haiti itself (including massacres due to color, most massacres that have happen on the island has been of a black regime in power in Haiti vs the mulattoes of Haiti who on average are light skin) which the perpetrator were alk Haitians and wondering if having at least some Haitian ancestry to order horrible things on the Haitians is a requisite becones a legitimate question.

History is written.
Few bother to read and learn.
Facts without editorializing, at peoples disposition to come to conclusions.
 

XQT

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This reminds me of those that think the Dominican-Haitian issue is due to racism. A perfect example would be José Francisco Peña Gómez (his original name was Oggi Pie). Both of his parents were Haitians and his name corresponded that a Dominican family adopted him and gave him their last names.

Hipólito Mejía was one of José Francisco Peña Gómez's closest friend and he has said on several instances that one of Peña's issues was recognizing that he was Haitian. He completely denied that and even invented that his mother was from some town in the Dominican south, the name of the town I can't remember at the moment. Peggy Cabral, one of his ex-wives, during the issue regarding the regularization plan (Peña died in 1998, so this was well after he was gone) said that she went to Haiti to speak with his mother who was still alive then.

As if that was not enough, one of Peña's son appeared in a newspaper article where he was essentially denouncing the massive Haitian illegal immigration to the DR. I shouldn't have to say the obvious, but he was at least half of Haitian descent given who was his father.

The DR can be fully Haitianized and the anti-Haitian feeling of many will remain intact. The reason is like getting sick with pneumonia but people insist you have AIDS. The treatment? Well, medicine to treat AIDS, of course. Everyone knows that's how you will get better since you have AIDS, right? :unsure:

None of us can change their ethnic heritage or place of birth.

Yet one can further their education and improve their life, through discipline and hard work and even their country of residence.
Some are blessed by heritage and birth into a certain class and a great location.

People would do well to study history, understanding the time in which it took place and what the conditions were at that time in the world.
Blaming past actions and trying to re-write history to ones current political and social likes has zero credibility.
DR history is linked to Taino ingress to the island and the colonial interests of EU colonials of the time.

Of course there is a lot of human history, migration and conquest way before EU colonialism and exploration of the world ever started.
 

XQT

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Dec 7, 2022
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When you look into Dominican history, more often than not the greatest events done by the Dominican state towards Haitians in the DR has been by Dominicans with sone Haitian ancestry, Trujillo is probably the most well knwn, but there is slso Balaguer who was related to Heureaux, he himself a Dominican president in the 1890's who's mother was from Saint Thomas and father was a merchant from Haiti, his parents both met in Puerto Plata where each of them moved to. Hereaux was born in Puerto Plata. His regimen favored a scheme of attracting farmers deom the Canary Islands and settling them along the border (which was different from today's as back then the border was that agreed by Spain and Francd in 1777) as a way to slow down Haitian encroachment into Dominican land.

This was Hereaux.

JlzPmMv.webp


Trujillo got a lot of influence from Hereaux, particularly regarding many of the dressing style for official government events.

Then you take all the issues created against many Haitians in Haiti itself (including massacres due to color, most massacres that have happen on the island has been of a black regime in power in Haiti vs the mulattoes of Haiti who on average are light skin) which the perpetrator were alk Haitians and wondering if having at least some Haitian ancestry to order horrible things on the Haitians is a requisite becones a legitimate question.

No country likes to have the feeling to be invaded by large numbers of foreigners.
Foreigners who have zero respect of existing local culture and language, living a parallel existence in the new country.

For Dominicans and many other countries this is not just a feeling, but a factual reality.
I can well understand Dominican resistance to uncontrolled Haitian ingress and the feeling of historical struggles.
Yet Dominicans are helping a lot and are not pre-se against Haitians.
There are limits to acceptance and willingness to pay though, here and in many countries struggling with refuge and economic/ political refugees uncontrolled ingress.
 

NALs

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No country likes to have the feeling to be invaded by large numbers of foreigners.
Foreigners who have zero respect of existing local culture and language, living a parallel existence in the new country.

For Dominicans and many other countries this is not just a feeling, but a factual reality.
I can well understand Dominican resistance to uncontrolled Haitian ingress and the feeling of historical struggles.
Yet Dominicans are helping a lot and are not pre-se against Haitians.
There are limits to acceptance and willingness to pay though, here and in many countries struggling with refuge and economic/ political refugees uncontrolled ingress.
That part can be complicated. You probably say that based on many Dominicans hiring Haitians, attendance at the hospitals, etc.

I know of a situation where one day a particular someone made reference to the Haitians in a not very nice way and literally the next morning I watched the same person that made it clear she doesn't have them in high regards interact with one Haitian of the several Haitians that work in their business as the Haitian was being friendly to see again "la patrona" and had a little good morning chit chat with her. If only he knew what she said about Haitians in an indirect way the night before when only her family and me were present.

A nice friendly chit chat between one Dominican and one Haitian, plus many Haitians work for their family business.

Her exact words were "¿Qué le pasó a ---? Él era bonito. Ahora parece un haitiano. Ay no..."
 

windeguy

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Because the people in positions such as the one that Fadul had don't enforce that law because they don't want to. Remember what happened with Barick Gold. Billions of dollars to be made, but it just so happens the very same government Fadul was in forced Barrick to renegotiate. It was you either renegotiate or leave the DR. In the end the government got what it wants and the reason is simple, the government is the ultimate authority within its territory, not capital. Barrick is still doing business in the DR, but the have to,pay a much larger share to the DR government than initially.

The thing about Fadul is that he didn't grow up hearing that such and such of his ancestors did this during the Reconquest War, that such and such ancestor went through this during the Haitian invasions, that such and such ancestor did this during the eve of the independence, that such and such ancestor was this during the Restoration War, that such and such ancestor went through this during Lilís government or sone other etc. Unlike most if the Dominicans that surround him, none of his people were in the DR before the 1920's the furthest back in time.
Ah yes, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but this is the DR and we can get away with hiring illegals despite the law. I get it.
Everything in life is a tradeoff, the DR trades off law enforcement for profit. And I do so get that.
 

windeguy

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But it has a play because the current reality didn't just appear out of nowhere. If what happened 1,000 years ago was different in all respects, no one alive today would be alive today. How many people currently alive wish they would had never been born? Wish for thrm or their parents or siblings or children to die? No? Well then, that no exist in part because of what haplened a 1,000 years ago.

This goes back even to that Fadul guy I mention in the previous post. If all Dominicans for whatever reason would had been eliminated and killed say 200 years ago, chances were still around for Fadul to be born since both of his parents were Fadul and Lebanese. What about Dominicana that today are descendants of those that woukd had been killed?
I said what happens in 1,000 years is of no concern to me and you speak about the past?
I am concerned about today and what happens now.
 

windeguy

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This reminds me of those that think the Dominican-Haitian issue is due to racism. A perfect example would be José Francisco Peña Gómez (his original name was Oggi Pie). Both of his parents were Haitians and his name corresponded that a Dominican family adopted him and gave him their last names.
Was there not an order given at one time in history by a Haitian leader named Dessalines to kill all the the non-blacks?
Use knives so as not to alert the others, etc...
 
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El Hijo de Manolo

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I said what happens in 1,000 years is of no concern to me and you speak about the past?
I am concerned about today and what happens now.
Speaking about the present, I wouldn't waste one millisecond discussing anything with someone who can't make his point in a sentence or two. Too many times I realized time off my life I can ever recover reading NALs' posts.
 

windeguy

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Speaking about the present, I wouldn't waste one millisecond discussing anything with someone who can't make his point in a sentence or two. Too many times I realized time off my life I can ever recover reading NALs' posts.
You can say that again, and again, and again. Like Jordan Peterson trying to make a point.
 

NALs

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I said what happens in 1,000 years is of no concern to me and you speak about the past?
I am concerned about today and what happens now.
What happens today depends on what happen yesterday. Otherwise there is no today.