"Other Fair" - Organizer Arrested!

[Everett]

Sounds like a government white wash to me.
Free speech either is or is not. Apparantly it is the latter.
The kids want to go out there and wear red shirts, blast yankis then go eat Burger King - so what?
Protecting national monuments? An approaching storm? That is totally lame.
The older generation need to get a life or they will have problems with the DR boomers.

 

[aegap]

Exactly Rick, the same point I've been hammering about.

He apperently was the official Spokeperson for the "Otra Feria" He seems very militant to me.

...how does having a fair to protest the disrespect of the law and uncivility of the government by disrespecting the law and been uncivil works?

..that is basically what this guy, the spokeperson for "La Otra Feria", was not only doing himself but also inciting other to do..

 

[aegap]

From the links to the blogs of the two ladies that participated in "La Otra Feria" and the pictures they took, it seems to me that the organizers were allowed to have "La Otra Feria" , even despite the fact they didn't have the pertinent permit.



What they write and the pictures they took seem to back up the following:

its organizers -according to a report published in the newspaper El Nacional- didn?t blame the Police for the even not being staged.
The hours coincide with the torrential rains which came from the then Hurricane Ernesto, whose eye was located just over 250 kilometers south of the Dominican capital.
"Neither the Interior and Police Ministry nor the Government have anything to do with that suspension," said the official, whereas the organizers have yet to provide details on the supposed banning of their activity.
For his part, the Presidency?s Press chief Rafael N??ez stated in the National Palace that president Leonel Fernandez?s Administration is in favor of all citizens exerting their civil rights, including right to the protest.
He said that if the youngsters organizing the Other Fair wish it, the Government could advise them on how to successful organize an activity of that nature, from his experience in the pro-government exhibit ?Leonel Fernandez: Ten years of a vision,' held recently, but whose staging received sharp criticism for the expense involved.

So what we have is one person that was (temporally) arrest. That person, by his own admission, has strong inclination to doing whatever the heck he want, even if it means blatan disregard for the law.

How is that different from here in the US, where you need permit to use public property for such activity, and where the police wont hesitate to arrest anyone breaking the law or inciting the crowd to break the law?

Can those suggesting this was a violation of free speech please elaborate on how that was actually the case in this event..

 

[Rick Snyder]

Aegap I understand what you have been saying and what amuses me are those that will post out their defense of idiots.

I also find it amusing when a person fails to understand the logic and legality of, "request submitted and request denied". After studying the purpose of the Monumental Patrimony and knowing how the system works here it is only natural and understandable that the request was denied. You can try to throw the blame on LF but that dog won't hunt. I don't think he gave a chit if the fair went on or not as he knew it couldn't and wouldn't hurt him. A bunch of kids, regardless that they are rebels or not, can't play in the same league as a president of any country.

I also believe LF would rather have had the fair go as planned because now his wannabees have put a bit of the egg on his face and there are those on this board that are trying to smear it around.

For those of you that don't like LF all I can say is you don't need to bad mouth him because it will be his own people that will bring him down and this case is a classic example of that happening.

Rick

 

[drbill]

Given it was the same lame message shouted by the same lame proponents ... it may have been more politic to let them assemble, protest, disseminate their revolutionary claptrap/codswallop and endure their fifteen minutes of fame.

Tomorrow will take care of itself, si?

 

[aegap]

¿La Otra Feria?
...
Repartieron unos pedazos de tela para que nos tapáramos la boca, en signo de protesta contra la represión a la libertad de expresión. Luego de que paró de llover nos acercamos todos a la estatua de Duarte. Ahí el joven Galvan comenzó a hablar de convocar a una nueva fecha visto los inconvenientes del día. Entre una cosa y otra, al final dijo que en la noche se iba a hacer una vigilia con velones y que "esta noche no va a haber ley seca porque la ley seca se acabó".
Fourth warning sign.
...

Deceived

..
So I went [to La Otra Feria]. Despite the freezing summer rain, Eny and I got in her car and head on over to the park where we found a bunch of people who were meant to be working the fair along with a similar number of police. Eny and I walked on over and they welcomed us immediately. It was a dynamic crowd who was obviously still shaken up from the morning's events but their resolve was stronger than it might have been in earlier hours. I felt their pain.

Like the good photojournalist she is, Eny immediately started taking pictures of everything while I did what I do best: socialize. I made myself useful by giving little pep talks about resolve, I told some of the people who came by to see what the commotion was about what the goal of the fair had been to the best of my ability, I made signs, took pictures and even fed all the people who were there all day. I fed people with food I got from Narciso Isa Conde's house.

After we fed everyone, we took a bunch of pictures for the press. For whatever reason, I kept on being asked to be in these pictures so I agreed because like I said before, I believed in the cause and I am not going to do anything half assed. They wanted me in the damn pictures, I was in them. I was there. I was helping.

Shortly thereafter, Galvan (aka martyr boy) started talking about how tonight there would be a vigil and that the alcohol laws would not be observed during the protest.

HOLD UP.

I stated in front of the group that peaceful protest does not involve breaking the law and whether we like it or not there is a law that prohibits drinking after 2:00am. Some people echoed my sentiment but he wouldn't hear any of it. Eny and I spoke to a couple of the other organizers and explained to them our point of view which included but wasn't limited to how Galvan was quickly becoming their weakest link, one kept on like she knew what she was doing (which she really didn't) and the other agreed and talked to him about it. Either way, it was getting weird.

But we stayed. The press conference was at 5:00pm and I figured that they needed the support plus Eny wanted to take more pictures. For whatever odd reason I ended up by the table with the organizers
...
I feel like I was lied to and I am extremely upset that they lied to the country. They wanted to bring in people to support one thing and then at the end it turned out that it was something else.
I was given a brownie and then after I ate it, turned out it was a space cake.

sounds to me like no one stopped "La Otra Feria" from taking place..

 

[Mortran]

?Ahora bien, exista lo que exista, yo tampoco estoy obligado a cumplirlo, porque es un decreto injusto, abusivo e ilegal.? Say What???
[...]
An individual that says a legal law is illegal and he therefore thinks he can disobey it.

The "individual" is right.
There is no law, just a decree. And this decree violates article 4 and article 8 (paragraphs 5 and 7) of the Dominican constitution. And therefore it is void according to article 46. Government and police are acting outside the legal boundaries of the constitution by enforcing this decree.

 

[aegap]

En lo que pasaba el tiempo una de las personas viene a hablar con el Padre Rogelio, que estaba parado a mi lado, para decirle que la Policía le había dicho que si seguían haciendo bulla iban a tener que llamar refuerzos. El Padre Rogelio muy airado le dijo que les dijera que llamaran a quienes quisieran porque nadie les tenía miedo y que ahí había hombres que los iban a enfrentar.
Fifth warning sign

..mind you they didn't have a permit(s) for using the public park for "La Otra Feria." ...and that they were still allowed to have it, despite not having the required permit(s)..

 

[aegap]

rick says,

I also find it amusing when a person fails to understand the logic and legality of, "request submitted and request denied". After studying the purpose of the Monumental Patrimony and knowing how the system works here it is only natural and understandable that the request was denied. You can try to throw the blame on LF but that dog won't hunt. I don't think he gave a chit if the fair went on or not as he knew it couldn't and wouldn't hurt him...

I completely agree with you, rick.



Mortran says,

The "individual" is right.
There is no law, just a decree. And this decree violates article 4 and article 8 (paragraphs 5 and 7) of the Dominican constitution. And therefore it is void according to article 46. Government and police are acting outside the legal boundaries of the constitution by enforcing this decree.

Galvan does indeed make a compelling argument, here is that comment Rick quotes in context:

POR ULTIMO, TENGO QUE ACLARARTE QUE EN ESTE PAIS NO EXISTE NINGUNA LEY SECA, LO QUE HAY ES UN DECRETO, INCONSTITUCIONAL POR CIERTO, QUE PROHIBE LA VENTA DE ALCOHOL A UNAS HORAS.... ESE DECRETO NO PROHIBE EL CONSUMO NI EN LUGAR NI EN TIEMPO.

TU Y YO, PODEMOS BEBER A LA HORA QUE QUERAMOS, NO ESTA PROHIBIDO, Y NO DEBE ESTARLO.

CREO QUE ESTAS MAL INFORMADA SOBRE EL TEMA.

AHORA BIEN, EXISTA LO QUE EXISTA, YO TAMPOCO ESTOY OBLIGADO A CUMPLIRLO, PORQUE ES UN DECRETO INJUSTO, ABUSIVO E ILEGAL. ES MI DECISION PERSONAL Y TU NO TIENES DERECHO A IMPONERME TU PUNTO DE VISTA.

YO SEGUIRE INSTANDO A ROMPER EL DECRETO CENICIENTA, Y YO ASUMO MIS CONSECUENCIAS. LO QUE YO DIJE FUE PERSONAL

I don't like his militant way nor share his ideology, but he deserves that one.

P.S. apperently they are aiming to try it again next month. ..Date is Sept. 24th

SIN ANIMOS DE OFENDER, Y AGRADECIENDOTE MUCHO TU COMPRENSION, TE INVITO A LA FERIA EL 24, ESPEREMOS QUE LA POLICIA NO LO IMPIDA.

SALUDOS

H. GALVAN

 

[aegap]

Let hope they do it the right way this time around..

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Has anybody given it some thought that possibly the organizer's were doing the old classic provocation. This is my take. If and only if we are to believe the version of the government that the permit was rejected the organizer's knew this and processed to do the fair knowing that it would provoke the authorities to stop them. This would result in some confusion and make them look look the victims. The fact that it took some days for the press and government to give some kind of rational explanation gave the impression that the government was heavy handed and tried to hide something.

On the day of the fair there is some proof that some event was allowed to take place. Possibly the police had their orders but decided to let things go on to a certain extend because the crowd was small. Judging from the pictures maybe less than two dozen people participated.


The fellow Galvan has indicated that another fair is scheduled for Sept 24th. Lets see if they get their permit accepted this time. Maybe they are hoping for another extra dozen to show up. They did succeed in getting some press and the attention of DR1.

 

[Lambada]

There are some interesting pieces in Clave about this:
http://www.clavedigital.com/Firmas/Articulo.asp?Id_Articulo=7667 and
http://www.clavedigital.com/Firmas/Articulo.asp?Id_Articulo=7668. Go to the Firmas section for more.