Perceived social levels

[bob saunders]

Read it. That guys a gas bag! He s one of those revisionist who only see what they want to see. Those people brought all those problems here. As though the problems never existed in absence or in presence of their arrival. The problem is this, your insular culture cannot compete with outside influences first hand. Yea, watching them MTV3 is totally different to having it in your face in your house talking to the his abuela, the very same grandmother you have. This is a copout because even the Dominican women in the US, like Nuala and POPNYChic amongst others who use this website whose names I cant recall right now and my niece who presently lives in Atlanta can all be considered the treacherous Dominican Yorks because it is their sole concern is not to stay at home popping out babies and making con-con as an after dinner snack. To have different goals, more expansive ideals is anathema to the insular island culture and can be considered disrespectful or undesirable. But how do you know it is wrong? And what dude can clearly say that ones clothing is more pornographic than the other? I m assuming he must be talking to the prevalence of tattoos. Because other than that, domestically there is an obsession with the exposition of breasts here that is outrageous.

And I still wonder what they did before the hot comb came here. And according to the Centro Leon, it got here around 1950.

Are you one of those Dominican-Yorks (those who are absorbed into the urban ghetto culture and/or lack the most basics of civility) If not, they aren't talking about you so why so offended? I still say you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. My wife has lived in Canada for 11 years, in a culture about as far removed from New York Culture as there is, and even farther from any resemblance of a Latin Culture, especially Dominican. When she goes back, which she does every year she treats people the same, acts the same, and is treated the same as she has been her whole life. Has living outside the country changed her, not really, except her perceptions, which she mainly keeps to herself.

 

[NALs]

@Nals. Thanks for sharing. My problem is that Daniel Adriano speaks of us as a plague. The so called corrupt Dom-Yorks are no worse than the big narcs or money launderers from over there. His statements are parallel to those people that say that people from the ghetto are the worst criminals, when in fact, as we have seen in our time, the worst crimes are committed in Capitoll Hill and Wall Street. However, it seems easier to use the poor as a scapegoat for our social ills. We accept crime so long it looks good.

I think Adriano was expecting that if rural or barrio people move to a more developed, law abiding, civilized country; such people would be positive role models during their visits. But, as soon as the airplane lands, they pay the guys in the airport to not check their bags, they drive erratically simply because they can, they talk loudly and with no tact or respect for other people's right to enjoy a public place in peace, they park where ever they want because "they're in the DR", and worst of all, they want to impose their ghetto ways on descent Dominican society (ie. complaining of the dress code in Dominican government buildings because they want to be able to enter with a wife beater and sagging pants or thinking everyone has to bow to their presence simply because they're Domyorks, etc). The truth is that many Domyorks do things in the DR that they will never even attempt to do in the US.

Everybody knows what segment Adriano was criticizing, and its very clear that they are a huge embarrassment. The worst is that they dominate the image of the Dominican community abroad and of the Dominican expatriate community in the DR.

Not good regardless which way one see this.

 

[RacerX]

Or maybe the DomYOrks see the inconsistencies in the world here and decide to sidestep some of the silly and arcane rules? The preposterous need to be studiously dressed for everything. You are only taken seriously if you have a shirt and tie on, regardless of whether they match or even look good. I m in the hospital and its like 100 degrees in the elevator and I dont see how these people dont sweat...AND related insult, the futility women are exposed to because it is "unfeminine" to sweat...OUTSIDE. It is unfeminine to express any enthusiasm or effort into anything productive apart from child rearing. Find a DomYork woman to subscribe to that? The thing about the t-shirt and the saggy pants, thats the hip hop culture. People grow out of it when their tastes mature. But a Domestic Dominican will keep his bad habits FOREVER because there is no incentive to change them. EVER. Society can move faster than he can but he can just move to where it doesnt. If a DomYork never came back here they would still have a COBA unit of the PN. If she never came there would still be women expecting to be taken care of their whole life, while their mate has 12 children with another 4 women. There would still be the woman with the adult child who is developmentally disabled begging for spare change in the womens and maternity hospital on Av. Duarte. I think all of this DomYork jazz is envy. You envy that the young kids like the American music, fashion and culture better and even look for ways to integrate your customary culture into it. The domestic Dominican is upset because he cant see a way for himself in this, he cant integrate himself into it, cant even figure out its appeal because although its not too complex it requires a lot of free thinking. Makes me suspect thats why the power goes out frequently, so you cant get too much foreign influence from the TV. Might make you want for better than you have.

And BTW dont act like its not an embarrassment when Dominicans come the US with those hokey mores and behaviors that dont p1ss people off there either. Like that one about throwing garbage on the floor in the hallway of the buildings they live in and then wanting to get into an argument with the super when they re told they cant do it(always women). Washington Heights may be a universe for some people and a prison for others.

 

[bienamor]

Or maybe the DomYOrks see the inconsistencies in the world here and decide to sidestep some of the silly and arcane rules? The preposterous need to be studiously dressed for everything. You are only taken seriously if you have a shirt and tie on, regardless of whether they match or even look good. I m in the hospital and its like 100 degrees in the elevator and I dont see how these people dont sweat...AND related insult, the futility women are exposed to because it is "unfeminine" to sweat...OUTSIDE. It is unfeminine to express any enthusiasm or effort into anything productive apart from child rearing. Find a DomYork woman to subscribe to that? The thing about the t-shirt and the saggy pants, thats the hip hop culture. People grow out of it when their tastes mature. But a Domestic Dominican will keep his bad habits FOREVER because there is no incentive to change them. EVER. Society can move faster than he can but he can just move to where it doesnt. If a DomYork never came back here they would still have a COBA unit of the PN. If she never came there would still be women expecting to be taken care of their whole life, while their mate has 12 children with another 4 women. There would still be the woman with the adult child who is developmentally disabled begging for spare change in the womens and maternity hospital on Av. Duarte. I think all of this DomYork jazz is envy. You envy that the young kids like the American music, fashion and culture better and even look for ways to integrate your customary culture into it. The domestic Dominican is upset because he cant see a way for himself in this, he cant integrate himself into it, cant even figure out its appeal because although its not too complex it requires a lot of free thinking. Makes me suspect thats why the power goes out frequently, so you cant get too much foreign influence from the TV. Might make you want for better than you have.

And BTW dont act like its not an embarrassment when Dominicans come the US with those hokey mores and behaviors that dont p1ss people off there either. Like that one about throwing garbage on the floor in the hallway of the buildings they live in and then wanting to get into an argument with the super when they re told they cant do it(always women). Washington Heights may be a universe for some people and a prison for others.

Me thinks thou doest protest too much. dirtiest city in the USA that I have ever visited. "Detroit" not a lot of Dominicans there. You know the Yorks we are speaking of. and its a special group, by far not the majority of Dominicans living outside the country. But as with anything else the few spoil it for the many. Kind of like obtaining visa's, most would be responsible, but then there are the few that screw it up for everyone else.

 

[cobraboy]

I think all of this DomYork jazz is envy.

That's some funny poo right ^^^there^^^.

Me and my family must live in a bubble. In no way whatsoever do they...Dominicans...envy any aspect of the DomYork culture. In fact they think it's vulgar.

I attended an event Saturday afternoon where over 125 Dominicans from the Cibao were there including maybe 30 kids from 16-22 with their parents. These were very well-heeled folks. Not one had any glimmer of bling or adornments of the DomYork culture.

I'm pretty sure "envy" is one emotion that they don't feel when thinking of the DomYork culture.

And if you don't think there are middle-aged DomYorks? :cheeky: All you need to do is go to STI when a non-stop from NY arrives. Holy Guacamole! It's hilarious!

 

[Berzin]

This is why I love NYC.

I don't have to concern myself with "perceived" social levels, I don't have to wonder where I fit on the list and I certainly don't have to bother with people who obsess over such things.

A stroll through Washington Heights affords me the opportunity to enjoy a mixed and diverse community of Dominicans from all backgrounds, young Caucasian urban professionals, and my Jewish peeps at Yeshiva university on Amsterdam Avenue who I play basketball with.

I'm sure being Puerto-Rican and from the Bronx was an unspoken concern for a few of them until the barriers were broken by the simple act of intermingling, something that would probably be close to impossible in the DR. That seems to be the perception.

In the DR, all I would have to do is show up to a social function wearing the wrong type of shoes or inadvertently mention in passing how much I love the beach in Sosua and I'm marginalized for life.

As for "Alto Manhattan" it all depends on what turn you take coming off the bridge. Those who only see the oft-mentioned and despicable Dom Yorks only see the ghetto rats and nothing else because they want to.

There is a lot to dislike about NYC. I'll be the first to say it. But what there is to enjoy outnumbers the bad and those who live to point the out negative, and use status as the dominating barometer in choosing their friends can stay in the DR or any boring American suburb, where this attitude dominates their society.

Marginalization of the individual due to class status is the norm in Dominican society. We here in NYC don't need such a construct to tell us who to socialize with. Status doesn't dominate our every waking moment, and is not the main obstacle towards moving up that it is in the DR.

Seeing as this type of social inbreeding has had such a profoundly negative impact on the DR, and along with corruption is part of the reason the country is where it is today, I suggest spending less time concocting a social register and more time ignoring it.

Then again, it'd be tough trying to get anything done in Dominican society if you're on the outside looking in, unlike in NYC where all you need is a pair of balls and the confidence and work ethic to see your plan through.

 

[Bronxboy]

This is why I love NYC.

I don't have to concern myself with "perceived" social levels, I don't have to wonder where I fit on the list and I certainly don't have to bother with people who obsess over such things.

Amen, amen, amen!:glasses:

 

[pkaide1]

Amen, amen, amen!:glasses:

Padre nuestro que est?s en el cielo,
santificado sea tu Nombre;
venga a nosotros tu reino;
h?gase tu voluntad
en la tierra como en el cielo.
Danos hoy nuestro pan de cada d?a;
perdona nuestras ofensas,
como tambi?n nosotros perdonamos
a los que nos ofenden;
No nos dejes caer en tentaci?n,
y l?branos del mal.
Amen.

 

[Bronxboy]

Padre nuestro que est?s en el cielo,
santificado sea tu Nombre;
venga a nosotros tu reino;
h?gase tu voluntad
en la tierra como en el cielo.
Danos hoy nuestro pan de cada d?a;
perdona nuestras ofensas,
como tambi?n nosotros perdonamos
a los que nos ofenden;
No nos dejes caer en tentaci?n,
y l?branos del mal.
Amen.

I would definitely second that.

Always have "Our Father's" prayer in my mind. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[corporanay!]

Hear! Hear! @ Berzin.

 

[RacerX]

That's some funny poo right ^^^there^^^.

Me and my family must live in a bubble. In no way whatsoever do they...Dominicans...envy any aspect of the DomYork culture. In fact they think it's vulgar.

I attended an event Saturday afternoon where over 125 Dominicans from the Cibao were there including maybe 30 kids from 16-22 with their parents. These were very well-heeled folks. Not one had any glimmer of bling or adornments of the DomYork culture.

I'm pretty sure "envy" is one emotion that they don't feel when thinking of the DomYork culture.

And if you don't think there are middle-aged DomYorks? :cheeky: All you need to do is go to STI when a non-stop from NY arrives. Holy Guacamole! It's hilarious!

Sure and in all that vulgar disgust, they always managed to ask for something from "over there". The people who are the most disgusted I will assume are those who have no one to ask for things from over there to be brought upon return. ENVY

Coupling with Berzin said about DR class structure. If you thought people were nothing their whole life and then they come back with more in material goods than you have presently why wouldnt you hate them and thing they are still worthless because of the prevalence of sneakers and t-shirts? Why not hate them? They just changed your perception of who they were and how important they may be.

Envy

 

[cobraboy]

Sure and in all that vulgar disgust, they always managed to ask for something from "over there". The people who are the most disgusted I will assume are those who have no one to ask for things from over there to be brought upon return. ENVY

Coupling with Berzin said about DR class structure. If you thought people were nothing their whole life and then they come back with more in material goods than you have presently why wouldnt you hate them and thing they are still worthless because of the prevalence of sneakers and t-shirts? Why not hate them? They just changed your perception of who they were and how important they may be.

Envy

A lot of Dominicans have more "stuff" than the average American. I know a ton of them.

They don't envy DomYorks. Maybe the lower classes do. In fact, many tell DomYork jokes the way generic ethnic jokes are told.

Fact: a wide swath of Dominican culture thinks the hip-hop DomYorks ARE vulgar. Not all. But a whole bunch.

 

[RacerX]

A lot of Dominicans have more "stuff" than the average American. I know a ton of them.

They don't envy DomYorks. Maybe the lower classes do. In fact, many tell DomYork jokes the way generic ethnic jokes are told.

Fact: a wide swath of Dominican culture thinks the hip-hop DomYorks ARE vulgar. Not all. But a whole bunch.

And Dominicans and Porto Ricans in NY tell "platano" jokes about Dominicans on the island and recent arrivals.

 

[cobraboy]

And Dominicans and Porto Ricans in NY tell "platano" jokes about Dominicans on the island and recent arrivals.

I tell Cuban, Polish and Puerto Rican ethnic jokes. What do you tell?

 

[ExtremeR]

I really enjoy NYC, and I really enjoy Nevada all for different reasons. When I first went to NY with my wife and stepdaughter I really enjoyed the hectic lifestyle (as I was accustomed in SD) but then I was thanking God for living in a state like Nevada, where there's no state taxes, only a 8% tax on sales and that's it, rent and housing really cheap due to the recession (what's bad for others is really good for me, sadly those without jobs make my purchase parity greater, this is what rich are striving for) and virtually low bills with a good job.

Don't get me wrong I really love the NY lifestyle but when my cousin's husband told me he's thinking of buying an apartment at $500,000 I just made my mind of just traveling there and live here with a house, pool for $200,000 and a rich lifestyle with a (high?) middle class income.

 

[bienamor]

Agree

I really enjoy NYC, and I really enjoy Nevada all for different reasons. When I first went to NY with my wife and stepdaughter I really enjoyed the hectic lifestyle (as I was accustomed in SD) but then I was thanking God for living in a state like Nevada, where there's no state taxes, only a 8% tax on sales and that's it, rent and housing really cheap due to the recession (what's bad for others is really good for me, sadly those without jobs make my purchase parity greater, this is what rich are striving for) and virtually low bills with a good job.

Don't get me wrong I really love the NY lifestyle but when my cousin's husband told me he's thinking of buying an apartment at $500,000 I just made my mind of just traveling there and live here with a house, pool for $200,000 and a rich lifestyle with a (high?) middle class income.

As I have said before, when they start talking prices of stuff in the USA. It's not all NYC/LA. Almost anywhere between the coasts the cost of living is much cheaper. Massachusetts and Connecticut are higher yet.

 

[Bronxboy]

I really enjoy NYC, and I really enjoy Nevada all for different reasons. When I first went to NY with my wife and stepdaughter I really enjoyed the hectic lifestyle (as I was accustomed in SD) but then I was thanking God for living in a state like Nevada, where there's no state taxes, only a 8% tax on sales and that's it, rent and housing really cheap due to the recession (what's bad for others is really good for me, sadly those without jobs make my purchase parity greater, this is what rich are striving for) and virtually low bills with a good job.

Don't get me wrong I really love the NY lifestyle but when my cousin's husband told me he's thinking of buying an apartment at $500,000 I just made my mind of just traveling there and live here with a house, pool for $200,000 and a rich lifestyle with a (high?) middle class income.

I have a time share in Vegas.

Nevada is ok but damn it can get hot there!

 

[jrhartley]

It snowed when I was there lol .....I wasnt expecting snow in the desert

 

[Tamborista]

Don't get me wrong I really love the NY lifestyle but when my cousin's husband told me he's thinking of buying an apartment at $500,000 I just made my mind of just traveling there and live here with a house, pool for $200,000 and a rich lifestyle with a (high?) middle class income.

$500K might get you a nice studio in Manhattan below 96th street in a full service building!