Pistol Packing?

[socuban]

To be able to disarm the population, security must be improved exponentially in all the national territory. We don't need to make more laws, just enforce the ones we now have...

I would love to hear your reasoning as to how disarming the law abiding general population will reduce crime and still provide for continuous self protection. Remember, when seconds count, the policia are Dominican minutes away.

First off, criminals do not comply with gun laws any which way to Sunday. I can't see one going to a gun shop and filling out paperwork, having a pysch test done, buying a gun and taking lessons in order to commit a crime. A popular phrase in the states is that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Don't bring a machete to a gun fight either!

I suppose the Bani executioners had legally issued weapons? Large caliber semi autos and long guns that are prohibited to the general population?

If anything, the people should be empowered (educated and trained) to use deadly force for self defense AND escalate to the same magnitude the weapons the bad guy employs. Now if the BG shows up with a tank, all bets are off, the country is in chaos and God help us all.

Secondly, you couldn't post enough honest security in the country to thwart every conceivable act of crimes against a person, and not have a police state.

Woman are routinely beaten and killed at the hands of husbands/boyfriends/rapists. Are they a lesser species that should not be allowed to reasonably prevent serious crimes against their person?

Your thoughts of a disarmed population, being guarded by a limited and compromised national security (I smell dictatorship) in this day and age of hardened, prison-taught professional criminals is dangerous at least, scary at best.:bandit:

 

[laurajane]

Why do people feel the Dominican Republic is unsafe compared to where they are from if they are in the U.S.? To me this makes no sense at all. Texas alone has more handguns (registered) than each citizen in that state could hold in their hands at the same time!

I come from the U.K and all though i realize gun crime is rising there, All i can go by is personal experience of my four years here. Two people i know well have been shot here, one of them murdered the other survived a horrendous gun shot wound. I have had an intruder in my home which all though thankfully passed without incident was understandably upsetting. And among the very small group of people i know here in Punta Cana i loose count of how many of them have had intruders, been mugged, sexually assaulted.

I am not sayiing that having or not having a gun would have made a difference, but i don't think it is crazy to think living here can be unsafe. Were i come from i never had that feeling of "them and us". I love many things about this country, but feeling safe is not one of them!

Does anyone have any thoughts of knowledge about my previous comment that if you were to shoot an intruder, would you be arrested etc? Not like that poor man in England that shot an intruder but served time because the intruder was a juvenile...crazy!

 

[laurapasinifan]

people must come to the realization that in the DR crimes are punished severely at the descretion of the local law, until suck time as a larger presence of law comes in to feed.

they will arrest and blow out of proportion anything done by someone with money....to make sure you can ante up what they want.... to go free.

no rich gringo is going to jail....maybe $50,000 of his money will go to jail....

same goes for the connected Dominican...only difference the connection is established very early that they can pay... and things are hushed sooner.

for the not so rich gringo, they will make you sweat and sweat and give you the taste of incarceration, all in the effort to compel you to ante up....

but in any case even if you shoot someone...if you did it as a last resort to protect your life....what happens to you afterwards was a better choice than dying...

bad bob

 

[PICHARDO]

I would love to hear your reasoning as to how disarming the law abiding general population will reduce crime and still provide for continuous self protection. Remember, when seconds count, the policia are Dominican minutes away.

First off, criminals do not comply with gun laws any which way to Sunday. I can't see one going to a gun shop and filling out paperwork, having a pysch test done, buying a gun and taking lessons in order to commit a crime. A popular phrase in the states is that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Don't bring a machete to a gun fight either!

I suppose the Bani executioners had legally issued weapons? Large caliber semi autos and long guns that are prohibited to the general population?

If anything, the people should be empowered (educated and trained) to use deadly force for self defense AND escalate to the same magnitude the weapons the bad guy employs. Now if the BG shows up with a tank, all bets are off, the country is in chaos and God help us all.

Secondly, you couldn't post enough honest security in the country to thwart every conceivable act of crimes against a person, and not have a police state.

Woman are routinely beaten and killed at the hands of husbands/boyfriends/rapists. Are they a lesser species that should not be allowed to reasonably prevent serious crimes against their person?

Your thoughts of a disarmed population, being guarded by a limited and compromised national security (I smell dictatorship) in this day and age of hardened, prison-taught professional criminals is dangerous at least, scary at best.:bandit:

I understand 100% where you're coming from, but again read what I said: After security is afforded in a national level!!!!

We can't disarm the people today as it is! Illegal guns are everywhere along crime waves... Police are corrupt and the Law is not imparted without special terms... Much road needs to be covered before that happens...

I don't really go either way, is a very tough cookie to take a bite off...

As for the poster with the Q about the person that uses lethal force to avoid becoming the victim in self defense...

If that happens you (the victim) have the law in your side as it allows the use of lethal force to provide self defense...

The judge can provide for "preventiva" jail time as to allow the prosecutor time to gather evidence and witnesses to prove your wrong doing; this is where having a good lawyer plays the Ace card. If you have a competent lawyer the "preventiva" jail time can be omitted while the case is debated in court, after paying a "Fianza" to the court to remain free.

If the shooting is found to be clearly an act of self defense, the prosecutor will have a hard time convincing the judge to impose any criminal charges on the issue, but one must also consider that if anything is found to attenuate the situation (like you had a previous fight with the dead person, death threats, bad blood, bad biz, etc...) the judge will heed the prosecutor and find probable cause for a case to be brought against you.

Like the earlier poster said, at the worst you'll have to pay some money but the other guy paid with his life... So it's a very cheap deal for you...

One way to avoid the extremely high bonds on foreigners is to apply for citizenship in the DR as soon as you're legally able to... Then you can hustle your way out on the cheap and in pesos!

 

[socuban]

Where's the $ coming from?

I understand 100% where you're coming from, but again read what I said: After security is afforded in a national level!!!!

Here are some apples to oranges numbers;

From my neck of the woods;
population - 800K
'06 murder rate - 101
LE budget - $370MM (largest agency only)
LE employees - 3800 (not including volunteers)

There are;

1 murder for every 7920 residents
1 LE employee for every 210 residents
US$462 p/person, p/year for LE budget

Round numbers for the DR on a national level;

population - 9,900,000
projected '08 murder rate - 1985
I haven't found the budget numbers
Who can guess the number of police

There are;

1 murder for every 4987 residents
12.375 times my local population

12.375 x $370MM = ~US$4.6 billion (DP$16,025,625,000 or $16187.50 p/p, p/y)

Security on a national level to where the population feels comfortable enough to relinquish their weapons (not a good idea anyway) is going to cost a good percentage of the GDP.

?When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.? ?Thomas Jefferson

 

[Castellamonte]

I come from the U.K and all though i realize gun crime is rising there, All i can go by is personal experience of my four years here. Two people i know well have been shot here, one of them murdered the other survived a horrendous gun shot wound. I have had an intruder in my home which all though thankfully passed without incident was understandably upsetting. And among the very small group of people i know here in Punta Cana i loose count of how many of them have had intruders, been mugged, sexually assaulted.

I am not sayiing that having or not having a gun would have made a difference, but i don't think it is crazy to think living here can be unsafe. Were i come from i never had that feeling of "them and us". I love many things about this country, but feeling safe is not one of them!

Does anyone have any thoughts of knowledge about my previous comment that if you were to shoot an intruder, would you be arrested etc? Not like that poor man in England that shot an intruder but served time because the intruder was a juvenile...crazy!

If you shoot someone here and the police are notified you will most assuredly be arrested. If not for possible prosecution then for your own safety. Whether you would be truly prosecuted is another matter which, alas, is largely fed by how the fiscal (DA) is feeling about it.

Get a good lawyer, like Mr. Guzman, and if it was self-defense you will walk away fine. Then all you have to deal with are the nightmares for the remainder of your life.

 

[Ricardo900]

My only suggestion for posters who want to possess a firearm, is to understand that they are carrying an "Instrument of Death" and great great responsibility is needed when possessing one. You have to be very mature, patient and willing to be rational because there is nothing stopping you from getting mad and grabbing your gun for a little retribution. Believe me if it didn't happen to you, it will. Bad things happen to all of us and sometimes the idea of "I'm gonna get my gun" isn't such a great idea.

So in saying all of this, if you want a firearm? Go and get one, but remember you are carrying a tool, which literally gives you the power to administer "Death" if and when you see fit. A great responsibility and one a Mr. Joe Horn of Texas decided to wield on two individuals breaking into a neighbors house, not his. Man Kills Suspects While On Phone With 911, Two Men Shot In Texas By Joe Horn Who Saw Suspects Leaving Neighbor's House - CBS News

Be safe
Ricardo

 

[owls90]

Don't steal - don't get killed

If you're going to break into someone's house in Texas, you might get killed.

 

[thomas901]

i say get a a shotgun for the house (much harder to accidentally shoot yourself and much easier to shoot someone else) ....and even if someone breaks in, dont use it unless you have to. youd hate yourself later for killing someone just because they wanted to steal a few worthless things from you. as for carrying a pistol outside....bad idea..especially for a woman (no offense) but thats a sure way to get yourself killed. if youre getting robbed 9/10 they will have theirs ready and most likely pointed at you before you even know whats going on...you try to pull out yours and its over. dont be stupid. just give up the cash you rich gringo. most of the time they dont want to hurt you...they just want the money, but think about it....if you were robbing someone with a pistol in your hand and you see them pull out theirs...instinctively youre going to start shooting to kill. your intentions were to just get the money but you ended up having to defend your own life knowing someone was about to shoot you just to defend their wallet.

 

[MrMike]

A close friend's father was recently robbed by 3 armed men in broad daylight in front of his business - guess what they were after?

His pistol.

I am sure he bought it in case of robbery in the first place and in the end it was what got him robbed.

Now, as a Texas man, I am all in favor of killing people who need killin' and who threaten my life or property.

But as a stranger in a strange land, I think there are more effective ways to stay out of trouble than carrying a gun.

 

[SKY]

A close friend's father was recently robbed by 3 armed men in broad daylight in front of his business - guess what they were after?

His pistol.

I am sure he bought it in case of robbery in the first place and in the end it was what got him robbed.

Now, as a Texas man, I am all in favor of killing people who need killin' and who threaten my life or property.

But as a stranger in a strange land, I think there are more effective ways to stay out of trouble than carrying a gun.

Let me relate what happened to me about three years ago here.

I was appraching the door of my house and a punk hit me in the head from
behind with a Machete, and tried to cut my throat.

I ended up walking out of the clinic the next day with 40 stitches in my head and ten
in my throat. HE ENDED UP IN THE MORGUE IN SANTIAGO.

Licensed gun, self defense, no problems.

Someone posted about this when it happened. I believe it was Marco.

 

[jrhartley]

so we conclude sometimes its useful to carry one and sometimes not.....

 

[SantiagoDR]

so we conclude sometimes its useful to carry one and sometimes not.....

Don't advertise you have one.... element of surprise is very important.

The bad guys first clue should be the sound of the percussion and the sudden pain.
(Hopefully, short LIVED pain)



Don - SantiagoDR

 

[catcherintherye]

The bad guys first clue should be the sound of the percussion and the sudden pain.
(Hopefully, short LIVED pain)

I agree to a point, but there is some valid reasons for at least giving an indication of the capability of self-defense. Sometimes it is valuable to show the "big stick" as a preventative.

Thieves tend to take the path of least resistance, and if they think they will be met by an armed and capable person, they will think twice before entering that person's home. If they choose to enter anyway, then they should be given a more expressive and personal demonstration of the "big stick".

 

[socuban]

I've been taught that concealment, element of surprise and other tactics such as throwing your wallet/purse to distract a perp to buy precious time to draw are important.

Sounds like with the high cost of guns in the DR, anyone with one becomes target for robbery after discovery. I would definitely not be showing my gun there unless I was pulling the trigger.

 

[catcherintherye]

Sounds like with the high cost of guns in the DR, anyone with one becomes target for robbery after discovery. I would definitely not be showing my gun there unless I was pulling the trigger.


I certainly understand that perspective, and it is definitely up to each individual as to how they want to handle that question. A lot depends on the area one lives in, and also the overall reputation of the person involved.

For some people it might be better to keep it completely under wraps. For others it might be better to let it be known they are armed and dangerous.

As long as people understand the pros and cons of each approach, and are prepared for any eventuality, they can make their own decision about which course to take.