Plasma/LCD power requirements

georgios

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Oct 2, 2004
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Plasmas & LCD screens are the new kids on the block. The tube TVs are literally going "down the tubes". This new technology uses state of the art electronic components, real sensitive stuff. I am hearing some initial reports from people having problems when running their plasmas off the inverters.
The vast majority in the DR is using the DR 3624 Trace inverters. The output
of these inverters is modified sine wave power which is known to cause a humming noise on ceiling fans and some problems when connected to motion detectors, alarm systems etc.

A friend of mine noted that his plasma TV screen has fine horizontal lines accross ( left to right) and some audio noise at times. Another guy had to repair the main high voltage input module when the ventilation fan stop working.

Anyone else has any problems with plasmas? I would like to read your reports about this before I decide to buy one my self. Thanks.
 

hifiman

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Jul 13, 2005
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Those fine lines can also be caused by non grounded electrical outlets.Alot of times the plug is not grounded properly or the ground has come loose. AM radio waves can also be affected by a plasma tv in the same area.
Phosphers are used to excite the inionized gas the brighter the color, white being the brightest and black being the darkest has a direct link to the amount of energy used to give you proper color.
In contrast LCD is 100% backlit therefore using the same energy constantly.

Until recently plasma could not get an energy star rating because of this.
Hope this helps
hifiman
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Not so fast.....

Plasmas & LCD screens are the new kids on the block. The tube TVs are literally going "down the tubes". This new technology uses state of the art electronic components, real sensitive stuff. I am hearing some initial reports from people having problems when running their plasmas off the inverters.
The vast majority in the DR is using the DR 3624 Trace inverters. The output
of these inverters is modified sine wave power which is known to cause a humming noise on ceiling fans and some problems when connected to motion detectors, alarm systems etc.

A friend of mine noted that his plasma TV screen has fine horizontal lines accross ( left to right) and some audio noise at times. Another guy had to repair the main high voltage input module when the ventilation fan stop working.

Anyone else has any problems with plasmas? I would like to read your reports about this before I decide to buy one my self. Thanks.
Actually, plasmas are NOT "the new kids on the block". They have been around for many years now. LCD is fairly new but still, DLP is newer.

I do not recommend anybody to buy a plasma. It's a pain in the axx to fix them.

I have a friend who works for a major repair department and he tells me that, even though he has been fixing tv's for over 35 years, not many people know how to fix a plasma, him included. He says it's more like a guessing game when he has to repair a plasma. The parts are also VERY expensive.

The flat LCD's are less problematic but still very sensitive.

Now, I would rather buy a projection LCD than a flat LCD or a plasma any day of the week. Sure they are about 12 inches deep instead of 4, but at the end of the day, they are much more economical and are easily fixed, among other advantages.

But that's just me.
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Talvez si, talvez no....

DLP is old technology, hifiman is in the business and knows more about what is new and old and could give you an honest recommendation as to what is best.

He told me to stay away from DLP.
Actually, a buddy of mine have been salling TV's for over 40 years (Maidencreek, Best Buys, CircuitCity and Boscov's Dept. Stores) and he tells me that:

LCD Projection have been out for about 10-13 years
LCD Flat Panels (like the ones at Stadiums) have been around since the computers came out and
DLP have been around for about 3-5 years.

He also claims DLP's are still too expensive and that's the reason why many people are going with the Flat and Projection LCD's and Plasmas.

He does recommends the DLP, LCD flat panel and the LCD Projection before the Plasmas.

But, as always, everybody has an opinion on what they like the best or "who's on first" and "who's on second". Oh well.
 

hifiman

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Jul 13, 2005
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Actually, a buddy of mine have been salling TV's for over 40 years (Maidencreek, Best Buys, CircuitCity and Boscov's Dept. Stores) and he tells me that:

LCD Projection have been out for about 10-13 years
LCD Flat Panels (like the ones at Stadiums) have been around since the computers came out and
DLP have been around for about 3-5 years.

He also claims DLP's are still too expensive and that's the reason why many people are going with the Flat and Projection LCD's and Plasmas.

He does recommends the DLP, LCD flat panel and the LCD Projection before the Plasmas.

But, as always, everybody has an opinion on what they like the best or "who's on first" and "who's on second". Oh well.
The only problem with LCD and DLP rear projection is bulb life. The manufacturer will tell you 8000 hrs life but after selling about 1000 of these things I can tell you it is more like 3 to 5 thousand.
Also you need some sort of battery backup on your surge protector because the bulb needs to cool, any abrupt power outage will reduce or even blow the bulb. I sell 2 to 3 bulbs a week because of this.

Plasma still gives you the best picture but has its pitfalls,image retetention or burn in what you want to call it and glare.
I can tell you the cost of repair here in Canada is virtually the same on plasma as lcd.
LCD is more common because of the many sizes it can produced in 13" to 52"
But LCD has it's problems as well,it cannot produce a pure black or a pure white only shades of greys that resemble blacks and whites.A typical Lcd of good quality will produce 3 to 6 billion shades.Lcd also has a slower refresh rate about 4 milli seconds on the best and 8 on the average, you can notice the refresh on faster moving video like sports.

As far as life goes both give you about a 60 thousand hr rated life.Do the math 4 hrs a day equals 40 years.

As far as DLP being around for only 3-5 years, well keep in mind that this technology has been around for a lot longer then that. Infact Hitachi was the first to start developing this before Texis Instruments perfected it.Front projection tv was it's first use.I have been selling DLP since 2000.

DLP and LCD rear projection days are numbered. The day you can buy a 42 or 50" plasma or lcd panel for the same price as a Projection is very close. Once that happens what you buy.
hifiman
 

georgios

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Oct 2, 2004
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modified VS pure sinewave to power Plasma/LCD/DLP

That was a good reference on the difference between Sine and Square (aka modified sine-wave) wave inverters. Most appliances do run just fine on Trace square wave inverters.. X10 home control systems do not work well and that article mentions the artifacts found on plasma TVs as a potential problem.

I am just looking into a new flat screen TV and will probably go LCD for reasons of power savings as well as the issues that Plasma TVs don't work well with modified sine or square wave inverters.
Obviously plasmas don't work well with the Trace inverters(modified A/C).
What about the other ones( LCD & DLP)? Does anyone have any problems or
concerns about running these TV screens on trace inverters? Your testimonials could be very interesting for all of us. Please report any related info on this board for all of us to learn or be aware of, Thanks.
Georgios.
 

harrydr

On Vacation
Dec 12, 2006
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high tech and the DR

The technology is great. The power here is not. Why bother risking damage to any equipment? I think a cheap TV is sufficient. If it dies, get another. I ditched all my high tech toys before I moved here. Good thing, I hardly use a TV now. My laptop is all I need.

Good luck.
 

hifiman

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Jul 13, 2005
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Ok plain english this time STAY AWAY FROM DLP the bulb needs time to cool after being used, if you have even have battery backup the power outages are to frequent in the DR. A good old fashiond tube or lcd flat panel is your best bet.
hifiman
 

georgios

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Oct 2, 2004
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Manufacturer's reccomendations received

I have contacted major Plasma/LCD/DLP manufacturers ( Toshiba, LG, Hitachi, & Sony) and asked the questions as follows:

What is the reccomended AC input for Plasma, LCD & DLP Televisions?
Will modified sine wave AC input affect operation/performance etc?
Will modified sine wave AC input reduce lifetime or cause damage?

All manufacturers responded in a similar fashion noting that ONLY pure
sine wave AC input power is allowed. Modified sine wave will affect both
picture quality $ sound, lifetime is reduced, abnormal operation of the remote
control may occur and damage to several components is possible..
Warranty issues/voids were also addressed.

Georgios.
 

Ricardo900

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2004
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Question?

Would it be feasable to own a Plasma or LCD, (assuming the purchase of either is for the High Def capabilities) if the local cable providers in the DR do not broadcast their channels in High Def or if your DVDs are not HD-DVD or Blue Ray? And if that's the case, just buy a Large TV (tube).
 

georgios

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Oct 2, 2004
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High definition sources

Would it be feasable to own a Plasma or LCD, (assuming the purchase of either is for the High Def capabilities) if the local cable providers in the DR do not broadcast their channels in High Def or if your DVDs are not HD-DVD or Blue Ray? And if that's the case, just buy a Large TV (tube).
Well, quite a few people have satellite dishes & get HD direct from the sky
rather than local cable providers. In addition, DVD in high def and some
HD internet movie downloads are out there. The tube is a thing of the past...
Pricewise, a large tube is not that much less than LCD. I would suggest
adding a small, 1000 watts SW inverter as an add-on, fed directly from the
battery bank, to power sensitive equipment like LCDs & keep the Trace
inverter for the rest of the house.

Georgios.
 

hifiman

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Jul 13, 2005
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We bought a NEC DLP projector, after doing what seemed like a TON of research on the net.

We have it set up with a 10' screen. Not as good as a regular flat screen, but it projects a very good image, and we like it.

We use it mainly to watch movies, but not regular TV shows. We use our 31 in. Sony for that.

It's hooked up to our inverter, and seems to work just fine, but we turn it off whenever the electricity goes off, simply because it seems to use a lot of juice.

We turn it off per the instructions, and it has a fan that continues to run for 5 minutes or so to cool down the bulb.

Hifiguy, what's the average cost of a bulb from you? Definitely something to consider if you're thinking about a projector....
The cost of a bulb for a projector varies depending on the brand and type we have bulbs for basic lcd for as low as $299.99 to a whopping $1499.99 for a 3 chip dlp. Most are in the 4 to 6 hundred range.You should have a battery back up for that projector so the bulb has time to cool in the event of a power outage.APC makes the best one but there are lots of brands out there.

NEC is a nice projector by the way,they are owned by Pioneer.
hifiman
 

rafael

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www.dr-tourist.tv
I am in NY now and bought a cheap 32" LCD TV that has HDMI and all the other goodies. First trick is getting it in the country but during holiday time there is usually a $1,000 exemption from Aduanas and the box should be small enough that AA doesn't have a problem with me checking it.

Our small inverter is dead as a dorrnail and was not a very good one. It was my novias and served her well, but doesn't work at all now. Not a big problem because in gazcue we are on the same power grid as the national palace. . . our lights don't go out all that much.

We probably will break down and get a bigger inverter to power the entire apartment, but for now I am thinking a surge puppressor and having a proper ground run should be fine?