Problems with Vaccines.. past and present.

[william webster]

Vaccine News from the NYTimes

​

AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford released data showing that none of the 12,408 people who had received a vaccine shot died from Covid symptoms or were hospitalized with them. That’s consistent with earlier results for that vaccine, as well as initial results for four other vaccines — from Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer. Researchers found that the AstraZeneca vaccine also slows the transmission of the virus, underscoring the importance of mass vaccination as a path out of the pandemic. A peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, found that Russia’s vaccine, known as Sputnik V, also offered complete protection against serious Covid illnesses. Dr. Angela Rasmussen of Georgetown University called it “great news” and added, “We need more vaccines globally.” (Related: The New Yorker’s Joshua Yaffa and The Times’s Andrew Kramer, who are both based in Moscow, have written about why they got the Sputnik vaccine.) An important caveat: The vaccines’ protection doesn’t kick in immediately. It often takes at least a couple of weeks. The British government said that a variant of the virus first observed there had the potential to make the vaccines less effective. But that’s less alarming than it may sound. For now, the concern is hypothetical: No data shows the vaccines to be ineffective on the British variant. Even if they are less effective, other evidence suggests that modest levels of vaccine protection may almost always be enough to downgrade Covid to an ordinary flu. “Lately, when I talk to reporters, they expect me to be very worried about Covid variants. But I’m not,” Dr. Ellie Murray of the Boston University School of Public Health wrote on Twitter. “Why? Because we know what works to control Covid.” She is more worried about “the lack of action” to promote social distancing, encourage mask wearing and accelerate vaccination, she added.

 

[Carl.L]

Vaccine News from the NYTimes

​

AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford released data showing that none of the 12,408 people who had received a vaccine shot died from Covid symptoms or were hospitalized with them. That’s consistent with earlier results for that vaccine, as well as initial results for four other vaccines — from Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer. Researchers found that the AstraZeneca vaccine also slows the transmission of the virus, underscoring the importance of mass vaccination as a path out of the pandemic. A peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, found that Russia’s vaccine, known as Sputnik V, also offered complete protection against serious Covid illnesses. Dr. Angela Rasmussen of Georgetown University called it “great news” and added, “We need more vaccines globally.” (Related: The New Yorker’s Joshua Yaffa and The Times’s Andrew Kramer, who are both based in Moscow, have written about why they got the Sputnik vaccine.) An important caveat: The vaccines’ protection doesn’t kick in immediately. It often takes at least a couple of weeks. The British government said that a variant of the virus first observed there had the potential to make the vaccines less effective. But that’s less alarming than it may sound. For now, the concern is hypothetical: No data shows the vaccines to be ineffective on the British variant. Even if they are less effective, other evidence suggests that modest levels of vaccine protection may almost always be enough to downgrade Covid to an ordinary flu. “Lately, when I talk to reporters, they expect me to be very worried about Covid variants. But I’m not,” Dr. Ellie Murray of the Boston University School of Public Health wrote on Twitter. “Why? Because we know what works to control Covid.” She is more worried about “the lack of action” to promote social distancing, encourage mask wearing and accelerate vaccination, she added.

Please also post the link, thanks

 

[zoomzx11]

Try 10 or 15 in most cases

Years needed for vaccine development is a thing of the past.

Covid spurred all new vaccine technology breakthroughs with Pfizer and Moderna using new mRNA.

The big slow down now is trials and in Russia, where life is cheap, they do not bother with extensive trialing and instead just use the Russian people.
It is not like anyone says no to Putin's government.
In addition, Russia's Sputnik V has not been approved by any international vaccine review boards.

Russian idea was to be first and cheap to facilitate entry into the vaccine business.
The Russian model is working well and the vaccine is selling to poor countries for only about $20 a pop making it one of the cheapest.

Russia has a history of developing industrial poisons like Novochok so perhaps their science carries over to vaccine development but make no mistake in thinking a Russian vaccine has any humanitarian basis.
Sputnik V is a money-making Russian effort that is succeeding so far.
If there was a humanitarian aspect to this vaccine development there would have been expensive long-term trials followed by review boards to carefully ensure vaccine safety before it is released upon the general public.

 

[zoomzx11]

Years needed for vaccine development is a thing of the past.

Covid spurred all new vaccine technology breakthroughs with Pfizer and Moderna using new mRNA.

The big slow down now is trials and in Russia, where life is cheap, they do not bother with extensive trialing and instead just use the Russian people.
It is not like anyone says no to Putin's government.
In addition, Russia's Sputnik V has not been approved by any international vaccine review boards.

Russian idea was to be first and cheap to facilitate entry into the vaccine business.
The Russian model is working well and the vaccine is selling to poor countries for only about $20 a pop making it one of the cheapest.

Russia has a history of developing industrial poisons like Novochok so perhaps their science carries over to vaccine development but make no mistake in thinking a Russian vaccine has any humanitarian basis.
Sputnik V is a money-making Russian effort that is succeeding so far.
If there was a humanitarian aspect to this vaccine development there would have been expensive long-term trials followed by review boards to carefully ensure vaccine safety before it is released upon the general public.

By way of correction Sputnik, as WW posted, was peer-reviewed by Lancet.
I ran out of time to make the correction.

 

[PICHARDO]

Years needed for vaccine development is a thing of the past.

Covid spurred all new vaccine technology breakthroughs with Pfizer and Moderna using new mRNA.

The big slow down now is trials and in Russia, where life is cheap, they do not bother with extensive trialing and instead just use the Russian people.
It is not like anyone says no to Putin's government.
In addition, Russia's Sputnik V has not been approved by any international vaccine review boards.

Russian idea was to be first and cheap to facilitate entry into the vaccine business.
The Russian model is working well and the vaccine is selling to poor countries for only about $20 a pop making it one of the cheapest.

Russia has a history of developing industrial poisons like Novochok so perhaps their science carries over to vaccine development but make no mistake in thinking a Russian vaccine has any humanitarian basis.
Sputnik V is a money-making Russian effort that is succeeding so far.
If there was a humanitarian aspect to this vaccine development there would have been expensive long-term trials followed by review boards to carefully ensure vaccine safety before it is released upon the general public.

Wow! What a positive review! The west shines!

 

[Lobo Tropical]

And there you go again switching up people's words to fit your narrative.
Lots of anti vaccine folks running round down here in the DR. It's definitely
place guys like you should stay far away from as we would all really hate to
see you come down here, catch the virus and drop dead.

It is obvious that the covid vaccines are still in their trial stages and that much is yet unknown by research scientists.
However it is better to have some protection than none and to reduced the virus circulation.

Not being vaccinated does not to seem to be a well informed decision,
As would be not to inoculate children against:

• all three hepatitis B vaccinations
• diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTaP) vaccine
• haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine (Hib)
• pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV)
• inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV)
• measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine
• https://www.healthline.com/health/vaccinations/6-most-important-vaccines-you-might-not-know-about

Obviously not only personal protection is of concern.
The community at large has to be protected against the spread from virus spread.
Some may remember what happened with the bubonic plague without scientific knowledge or treatment.

It is the most fatal pandemic recorded in human history, resulting in the deaths of up to 75–200 million people in Eurasia and North Africa, peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351. Bubonic plague is caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, but it may also cause septicaemic or pneumonic plagues.
what is the world estimate of deaths due to the bubonic plaguge

 

[Lobo Tropical]

There is no short term hope even when vaccinated twice.

One can get infected or re-infected in some cases.

Experts are already warning that antibodies from a prior case of Covid-19 won't protect against being reinfected with a variant from South Africa.

Indoor meetings and restaurants are hotspots.

Will immunity last? Researchers don't yet know just how long the immunity given by the current vaccines -- such as it is -- will last.

Can I travel if I've been vaccinated?​

"I want to emphasize that now is not the time to be traveling period, internationally or domestically, it's just not a good time to be traveling,
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/health/after-covid-19-vaccine-safety-wellness/index.html

The personal and economic effects of covid 19 will haunt us for years to come.

 

[DRob]

There is no short term hope even when vaccinated twice.

One can get infected or re-infected in some cases.

Experts are already warning that antibodies from a prior case of Covid-19 won't protect against being reinfected with a variant from South Africa.

Indoor meetings and restaurants are hotspots.

Will immunity last? Researchers don't yet know just how long the immunity given by the current vaccines -- such as it is -- will last.

Can I travel if I've been vaccinated?​

"I want to emphasize that now is not the time to be traveling period, internationally or domestically, it's just not a good time to be traveling,
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/health/after-covid-19-vaccine-safety-wellness/index.html

The personal and economic effects of covid 19 will haunt us for years to come.

It's going to take some time for the vaccines to be generally available. Until then, mutations will be a concern. They seem to have greater transmissibility and cause more serious illness.

That said, when fully immunized, the research coming in seems to indicate one does stand a far better chance of recovery, even from the mutant strains. Personally, I'd prefer symptoms resembling the flu over being put on a ventilator (or in the ground). And that is what the vaccines collectively seem to be best at. They don't prevent infection or transmission, but they do go a long way in mitigating the actual illness.

Which is why I got my first shot (Moderna) last week. Other than a slightly sore arm at the point of injection and a bit of fatigue the following day, I've had no symptoms or adverse reaction. I'm told that after the second week, immunity rises to around 80%, and you're at about 94-95% once you get the second shot.

That said, I'll continue to wear my mask, keep my distance and wash my hands. The fact that I'm relatively "safe" after the second injection does not in any way minimize the need for me to keep those I come into contact with safe as well.

 

[william webster]

Please also post the link, thanks

Carl
you cannot read the link w/o a subscription
Hence, we copy & paste..... verbatim

 

[CristoRey]

It is obvious that the covid vaccines are still in their trial stages and that much is yet unknown by research scientists.
However it is better to have some protection than none and to reduced the virus circulation.

Not being vaccinated does not to seem to be a well informed decision,
As would be not to inoculate children against:

• all three hepatitis B vaccinations
• diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTaP) vaccine
• haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine (Hib)
• pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV)
• inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV)
• measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine
• https://www.healthline.com/health/vaccinations/6-most-important-vaccines-you-might-not-know-about

Obviously not only personal protection is of concern.
The community at large has to be protected against the spread from virus spread.
Some may remember what happened with the bubonic plague without scientific knowledge or treatment.

It is the most fatal pandemic recorded in human history, resulting in the deaths of up to 75–200 million people in Eurasia and North Africa, peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351. Bubonic plague is caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, but it may also cause septicaemic or pneumonic plagues.
what is the world estimate of deaths due to the bubonic plaguge

Each of the vaccines for the viruses you listed went through the proper channels/ phases during years of testing.
Bubonic Plague?
Wow!
Ya really threw the old hail Mary at me with that one but unfortunately looks like your super spreader conspiracy theory just got picked off.
I am heading up to Sosua this Saturday if the weather holds, a friend of mine has a villa rented for 2 weeks and trust when I say...
the show will go on!
Team Super Spread 1 - 0 Team Fear Monger.
I'll be sure to keep score posted on here as we move into the 2021 China Virus season.

 

[CristoRey]

Fernández government affirms that Pfizer "behaved very badly" with Argentina.

The Minister of Health of Argentina, Ginés González García, assured this Wednesday that the US laboratory Pfizer "behaved very badly" with the South American country in the negotiations for the provision of vaccines against covid-19.

"I have had a great disappointment," said the minister when he appeared before the Health Commission of the Argentine Chamber of Deputies.

The minister recalled that last July Argentina authorized Pfizer to carry out a phase 3 trial in the country and in December the regulator authorized the use of the vaccine developed by the US laboratory and the German BioNtech.

Contract negotiations began in September and, to facilitate the process, Argentina passed a law with certain regulatory conditions required by Pfizer and other suppliers.

However, according to the minister, Pfizer objected to an article of that law referring to responsibilities in case of negligence, adding new conditions in the negotiation.

- According to Listin Diario, it appears Pfizer wants nothing to do with negligence should anything go wrong, I wonder why?
- Feel free to read the entire article by clicking on the link below.

Gobierno de Fernández afirma que Pfizer "se comportó muy mal" con Argentina

El ministro de Salud de Argentina, Gines Gonzalez Garcia, aseguro este miercoles que el laboratorio estadounidense Pfizer "se comporto muy mal" c

listindiario.com

 

[zoomzx11]

Wow! What a positive review! The west shines!

​

Israel has been a leader in the speed of its vaccinations.
As of two days ago, they have vaccinated 77% of the population over 50.
Israel said that 97% of the fatalities have been in people over 50 which is in line with other countries' experience.
Israel made a deal with Pfizer to supply vaccines in exchange for real-time data on the vaccine experience so Pfizer agreed to supply all the needed vaccines
Very clever of Israel and smart on Pfizers end to use Israel as a mass test case on how vaccines might end the pandemic.
Pfizer agreed to the deal in part due to the excellence of the medical tracking system in place in Israel.

Out of 715,425 vaccinations, only .04% of the people vaccinated became infected one week after the second Pfizer vaccine dose.
Of those infected only .002% had to be hospitalized with the illness.
Israel has also seen critically ill patient numbers dropping.

Israel has a population of 9 million-plus.
Anyone heard anything definitive, not rumors or promises, as to what vaccine will be in use here and when it will arrive?
The rest of the world is gobbling up the vaccines and delaying is looking more and more like a really bad idea.

 

[Carl.L]

Carl
you cannot read the link w/o a subscription
Hence, we copy & paste..... verbatim

Could whoever deleted my response to WW kindly PM me please. Thanks

 

[zoomzx11]

Vaccine News from the NYTimes

​

AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford released data showing that none of the 12,408 people who had received a vaccine shot died from Covid symptoms or were hospitalized with them. That’s consistent with earlier results for that vaccine, as well as initial results for four other vaccines — from Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer. Researchers found that the AstraZeneca vaccine also slows the transmission of the virus, underscoring the importance of mass vaccination as a path out of the pandemic. A peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, found that Russia’s vaccine, known as Sputnik V, also offered complete protection against serious Covid illnesses. Dr. Angela Rasmussen of Georgetown University called it “great news” and added, “We need more vaccines globally.” (Related: The New Yorker’s Joshua Yaffa and The Times’s Andrew Kramer, who are both based in Moscow, have written about why they got the Sputnik vaccine.) An important caveat: The vaccines’ protection doesn’t kick in immediately. It often takes at least a couple of weeks. The British government said that a variant of the virus first observed there had the potential to make the vaccines less effective. But that’s less alarming than it may sound. For now, the concern is hypothetical: No data shows the vaccines to be ineffective on the British variant. Even if they are less effective, other evidence suggests that modest levels of vaccine protection may almost always be enough to downgrade Covid to an ordinary flu. “Lately, when I talk to reporters, they expect me to be very worried about Covid variants. But I’m not,” Dr. Ellie Murray of the Boston University School of Public Health wrote on Twitter. “Why? Because we know what works to control Covid.” She is more worried about “the lack of action” to promote social distancing, encourage mask wearing and accelerate vaccination, she added.

None of 12k dying or hospitalized is a nice number that is exactly what the vaccines hope to accomplish.

US doctor warning today that one of the new mutations may have higher mortality is early but scary news.
I am probably more cautious health-wise than the average person but I was surprised when a lot of the posters here took a wait n see attitude with the virus when it first appeared instead of taking a vacation home and getting the vaccine.

Now the DR looks to be stuck on zero with
no vaccines, nothing but empty promises, and the concern that distribution of the vaccines could be another hurdle when they finally arrive.
Does anyone know exactly what the cause of the delay might be?
Earliest I recall reading here was that the DR had a down stoke paid for the AZ version, then nothing more.

Phuket is in the news with a travel advisory welcoming tourists that have proof of vaccination.
No papers no visitation.
An idea that may catch on as a way to increase virus-safe tourism?

 

[bob saunders]

No thanks. I actually passed on a trip this week because my even though I've gotten the first shot, my immunity level needs more time to build up. Further, my friends there aren't vaccinated, and have (or interact with locals who have) kids and abuelitas who I'm not trying to put at risk because you're inviting me to hang out with a bunch of tired...eh, "workers."

You can save the latte for your fellow travelers. Some of them are clearly more snowflakey (i.e., tripping over wearing a mask and washing their damn hands) than they'd claim.

Or is it "snowflakish?" "Snowflakery?" How does one properly describe a self-proclaimed "alpha man" who bitches and moans about washing his hands, and jokes about superspreader events in a climate where more than 100M people are infected, 2M are dead, and any number of whom have suffered?

Other than nasty, I mean?

Anyway, have fun! If you get bored, may I recommend reading "The Masque of the Red Death" for your literary fun?

It's book. Which you read. Oh, never mind, have fun with La Gatita.

None of 12k dying or hospitalized is a nice number that is exactly what the vaccines hope to accomplish.

US doctor warning today that one of the new mutations may have higher mortality is early but scary news.
I am probably more cautious health-wise than the average person but I was surprised when a lot of the posters here took a wait n see attitude with the virus when it first appeared instead of taking a vacation home and getting the vaccine.

Now the DR looks to be stuck on zero with
no vaccines, nothing but empty promises, and the concern that distribution of the vaccines could be another hurdle when they finally arrive.
Does anyone know exactly what the cause of the delay might be?
Earliest I recall reading here was that the DR had a down stoke paid for the AZ version, then nothing more.

Phuket is in the news with a travel advisory welcoming tourists that have proof of vaccination.
No papers no visitation.
An idea that may catch on as a way to increase virus-safe tourism?

Original projection by the Dominican government was vaccination arrival end of February-March time frame. Are you hearing different information. the EU government is screwing with vaccines promised to countries outside the EU.

 

[DRob]

Original projection by the Dominican government was vaccination arrival end of February-March time frame. Are you hearing different information. the EU government is screwing with vaccines promised to countries outside the EU.

The timelines are varied out here. In NA, it's becoming a logistical problem, as there are 20M doses available, but undistributed.

I, frankly, got lucky. I was shopping in my local supermarket. Pharmacies are rapidly gaining favor as distribution points. They had a few people who missed their appointments, and I was next to the pharmacy when they made the announcement.

The stories of older people waiting hours are still around, but they seem to be doing a better job in organizing things. The hope is that once JNJ and AstraZeneca's vaccines come online, we'll be able to get most people vaccinated quickly.

My understanding is that the Moderna, JNJ and AZ vaccines will likely be heading your way, primarily because the storage protocols are far more forgiving.

 

[zoomzx11]

Wow! What a positive review! The west shines!

Just relaying the facts.
Other interpretation is yours.
Let me know If I made any factual errors,
We all love google.
Type in Russian culture and poisons; lots of reading.

I am glad they were lucky with Sputnik V.
Technical advances in the field of vaccine development jumped leaps and bounds.
A large number of vaccines out and working is a good thing.

I expect things will improve quickly as the vaccine is distributed and the case numbers fall.
The time frame should go something like this.
The first good indication will be a drop in pos test results,
Next will be fewer hospitalizations and lastly reductions in deaths.

As the numbers fall the anti-vaxxers will jump on board the vaccine train like nothing ever happened.
You will not even have to tell them, they figure it out on their own.

Not sure if this fits under the topic of problems with vaccines but it's more the people that are the problem, the vaccines are fine.

 

[zoomzx11]

Original projection by the Dominican government was vaccination arrival end of February-March time frame. Are you hearing different information. the EU government is screwing with vaccines promised to countries outside the E

"Projections", as I recall they were dates the government gave, and in some cases date is past and in some cases, it's here and what???

This is a business deal with, dates, shipment invoices, written promises and agreements and $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Is any really coming at all?
Raise your hand if you think it is not a possibility.

This stalling around has gone on long enough.
What might be your projection is going on here?

"the cure is supposed to be here", ok we are supposed to be able to see it from here on a clear day.
Is this unreasonable?
This would be an excellent time for the government to deliver in spades and right now would be even better so we can get on to the distribution mess.

 

[bob saunders]

"Projections", as I recall they were dates the government gave, and in some cases date is past and in some cases, it's here and what???

This is a business deal with, dates, shipment invoices, written promises and agreements and $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Is any really coming at all?
Raise your hand if you think it is not a possibility.

This stalling around has gone on long enough.
What might be your projection is going on here?

"the cure is supposed to be here", ok we are supposed to be able to see it from here on a clear day.
Is this unreasonable?
This would be an excellent time for the government to deliver in spades and right now would be even better so we can get on to the distribution mess.

Canada had a business deal, promises made, money delivered and the EU interrupted the shipments and put delays and lesser amounts arriving in Canada so they could ensure their countries were supplied first. It will arrive here in this month or March but it isn't like there is already enough to vaccine the world.

 

[JD Jones]

"Projections", as I recall they were dates the government gave, and in some cases date is past and in some cases, it's here and what???

This is a business deal with, dates, shipment invoices, written promises and agreements and $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Is any really coming at all?
Raise your hand if you think it is not a possibility.

This stalling around has gone on long enough.
What might be your projection is going on here?

"the cure is supposed to be here", ok we are supposed to be able to see it from here on a clear day.
Is this unreasonable?
This would be an excellent time for the government to deliver in spades and right now would be even better so we can get on to the distribution mess.

I'd guess the govt. here is just as frustrated as anyone else when it comes to Vaccine deliveries.