Protest of April 27: Parque Independencia (SD)

[NALs]

There is a little bit of an issue regarding the Reconoci.do.

At first Reconoci.do made it seem they were going to march to the Independence Park in SD protesting the immigration process, etc.

The Antigua Orden Dominicana said they will march to the Independence Park precisely to stop the Haitians from marching to that place. They see it as a provocation that they are planning to march to that place protesting immigration issues.There are 2 important part (in fact, it’s called Independence Park because that’s where the DR was born): The declaration of independence was said by the Puerta del Conde and the remains of Duarte, Sánchez and Mella supposedly are in the Altar de la Patria. It also has 3 statues of the founders of the country and in the middle a flame that is never turned off in their memory. This is a case of marching to that specific place due to the symbolism it has as where Dominican independence was proclaimed and the resting spot of the country’s founder.

Then Reconoci.do made it seem they aren’t creating the march, rather uniting other Dominican groups that are marching on that date and place in commemoration of the April of 1965 Civil War.

Interior y Policía made the following statement in writing.

In a nutshell, the organizations that officially made it known to the authorities they are marching to Independence Park on April 27 are in the first paragraph of the second page. They also reaffirm they are not inviting foreigners to participate (there is a law that prohibits foreigners from protesting in the DR.) Notice Reconoci.do isn’t in that list.

Interior y Policía reaffirmed that only members supporting the organizations in the list will be allowed to march. Any other organization will not receive the OK from the police.

This was commented in a program where they claim if the peace is altered on Sunday and Reconoci.do is involved, they will be the only responsible ones for the commotion (which should have the intervention of the police and maybe army to re-establish the peace.)

Basically, the Haitians (in this case born in the DR to illegal immigrants from Haiti, they claim to be Dominicans of Haitian descent although if they aren’t recognized as Dominican citizens, then they aren’t “Dominicans of Haitian descent” though others with Dominican citizenship born to Haitian parents are actual Dominicans of Haitian descent and aren’t joining Reconoci.do) are saying they are marching, the authorities are saying “no you’re not.”

 

[NALs]

A more appropriate term for them would be “Haitians aspiring to become Dominicans“ rather than “Dominicans of Haitian descent.” The only people that could call themselves Dominicans would be those born to a Dominican parent or a foreigner that naturalizes as a Dominican. “Dominicans of Haitian descent” implies they have Dominican citizenship, but the illegality of their parents negates them receiving Dominican citizenship due to place of birth and they obviously can’t inherit Dominican citizenship by blood. Those born to legal immigrants from Haiti are the real “Dominicans of Haitian descent.”

I think they do a disservice to actual “Dominicans of Haitian descent” since they don’t have the one thing that would make them such.
There seem to be no legal Norma’s regarding who can call themselves “Dominicans of Haitian descent” since it has no repercussions with law enforcers.

 

[chico bill]

If you were nor, educated and lived your entire life in DR then you are Dominican in my opinion.
Imagine being told that you must leave - go to Haiti, a country you never lived in.
Basically it's telling someone they are non-existent, just a black face of no value - to be loathed and discarded.
Trust me I'm all for sealing borders and making legal immigrantion work but you can not dissolve hundreds of thousands who were allowed in and lived decades as your neighbor, most productively, but certainly never those born and living their entire existence in DR.

 

[windeguy]

If you were nor, educated and lived your entire life in DR then you are Dominican in my opinion.
Imagine being told that you must leave - go to Haiti, a country you never lived in.
Basically it's telling someone they are non-existent, just a black face of no value - to be loathed and discarded.
Trust me I'm all for sealing borders and making legal immigrantion work but you can not dissolve hundreds of thousands who were allowed in and lived decades as your neighbor, most productively, but certainly never those born and living their entire existence in DR.

In my opinion there are laws for that determination and they should all be enforced.
Being born in the DR of illegal parents and living here your entire life does not make you a DR citizen nor a legal resident.
There is no Jus Soli that grants that privilege. The DR had a "regularization" program for such people which is long over.

 

[drstock]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

 

[AlterEgo]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

It’s a tough call, similar to the “dreamers” in USA, but there can’t be two laws. They’re either legal or not, there can’t be a gray area. Definitely tugs at heartstrings. When you know them personally, it’s difficult.

 

[Jan]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

My opinion. I do feel bad for the children. Wouldn't it be the fault of the parents originally from Haiti? They knew the laws and they gave their children the problems and gave them the title of non-people. There should be a way for children that were born and grew up in DR to get residency and citizenship, an easy process. But, the reality is that the parents knew what they were doing to their children. DR has to stop Haitians from coming here and birthing babies just to get citizenship here.

 

[Aguaita29]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

Haiti has similar rules and laws regarding nationality. Haitian laws are even tougher when it comes to "Jus sanguinis". If someone in the same situation were born in Haiti, they wouldn't be Haitian.. Haiti would not grant him/her nationality just to be nice or because of "morality". Same thing with a dominican who has a baby similar countries, like in Italy, for example. They don't have a claim to Italian citizenship, but that doesn't mean the baby is stateless. The parents go to their nearest Dominican embassy and register the child. "Jus sanguinis" is actually more used throughout the world that what most people think.
I see people from other countries who have babies here, and they go to their respective embassies to register their kids. Only haitians use the "stateless" crap.

 

[NALs]

If you were nor, educated and lived your entire life in DR then you are Dominican in my opinion.

Many people also think of “citizens of the world,” but no legitimization document anywhere even remotely says that. Plus, these “citizen of the world” still need to show their “non-citizens of the world” passport when crossing many international borders.

In a way reminds me of the people that say they are a cat. I guess everyone needs to great them as a cat when they are not.

Then the big question: are you a naturalized Dominican?

Imagine being told that you must leave - go to Haiti, a country you never lived in.

Anyone can get used to anywhere, especially where 100% of their recent ancestors starting with their parents are from. That they could care less about Haiti is a different story. These are the same people that never lived in the USA, but if they are told they can move to the USA they will gladly do it.

Basically it's telling someone they are non-existent, just a black face of no value - to be loathed and discarded.

That’s not a nice thing to say of all the Haitians in existence in the world including the 10 million + in Haiti itself.

Trust me I'm all for sealing borders and making legal immigrantion work but you can not dissolve hundreds of thousands who were allowed in and lived decades as your neighbor, most productively, but certainly never those born and living their entire existence in DR.

No you’re not.

 

[NALs]

In my opinion there are laws for that determination and they should all be enforced.
Being born in the DR of illegal parents and living here your entire life does not make you a DR citizen nor a legal resident.
There is no Jus Soli that grants that privilege. The DR had a "regularization" program for such people which is long over.

And of most countries in the world. In Haiti there is no way someone born to foreign parents is born a Haitian despite being born in Haiti and living their entire life there. People here complaining because the DR doesn’t give Dominican citizenship to those born to illegal parents when they are completely quiet that in Haiti those born to illegal and legal immigrants aren’t born as Haitians. Seem to be very hypocritical from their part.

The DR should mimic Haiti on limiting citizenship by birth only to blood ties and making it extremely more difficult to become a legal resident. The DR is more lenient.

 

[NanSanPedro]

So I understand they're marching toward the PdI. But where is the march starting from?

 

[NALs]

So I understand they're marching toward the PdI. But where is the march starting from?

Reconoci.do was claiming to start in La Trinitaria Park, but that was before they claimed they aren’t claiming to start the march but rather are joining the others marching. From where the others will be marching from I have no idea at the moment.

Interior y Policía doesn’t have them in the list, so whether they are starting their own march or joining another it isn’t allowed. Only those listed can march on Apr 27.

 

[NanSanPedro]

Reconoci.do was claiming to start in La Trinitaria Park, but that was before they claimed they aren’t claiming to start the march but rather are joining the others marching. From where the others will be marching from I have no idea at the moment.

Interior y Policía doesn’t have them in the list, so whether they are starting their own march or joining another it isn’t allowed. Only those listed can march on Apr 27.

Thanks NALs, I'm seriously thinking about observing tomorrow, which is also my 52 anniversary of being inducted into the USMC.

 

[JD Jones]

It’s a tough call, similar to the “dreamers” in USA, but there can’t be two laws. They’re either legal or not, there can’t be a gray area. Definitely tugs at heartstrings. When you know them personally, it’s difficult.

I say leave them for last. Lots of low-hanging fruit to keep immigration busy for many, many months.

 

[JD Jones]

Thanks NALs, I'm seriously thinking about observing tomorrow, which is also my 52 anniversary of being inducted into the USMC.

Use a little caution. They're saying anyone who is not a Citizen will be arrested.

 

[keepcoming]

Thanks NALs, I'm seriously thinking about observing tomorrow, which is also my 52 anniversary of being inducted into the USMC.

If it was me, I would probably stay away. Sometimes these things can turn ugly quickly.

 

[Jan]

I like to walk with the dogs around the Zone and Barrio Chino Sunday. I think I'll pass this Sunday. Stay far away from the whole area.

 

[CristoRey]

Countries like the Dominican Republic need to start introducing laws that prohibit these NGOs from promoting their "open border" ideologies.

I have met several Haitians here in Santiago who claimed to have been born here in the DR, who did not attend school, have no form of identification and were born to Haitian parents who were in the country illegally.

Most of them are in the early stages of adulthood and do not have the means to support themselves financially and will most likely end up becoming a burden on the state at some point in the future.

Any female who snuck into this country illegally and gives birth should also receive forced sterilization afterwards as well as being deported. This will help to ensure we don't have any repeat offenders going forward.

 

[bob saunders]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

Under the Haitian constitution they are Haitians.

 

[windeguy]

Sometimes, morality is more important than the letter of the law, in my opinion. There are many people born here who speak no Creole, no nobody in Haiti and have no knowledge of the country. They have no Haitian citizenship either, so It seems you would just abandon those people to make them "non-people".

As pointed out, They are Haitians. The DR government regularization program for them is long over.