Real Estate in Haiti

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Investing in a country that is currently in an armed struggle in its capital city seems like the most irrational thing one could possibly do. Not to mention, the condition of said country has been steadily a disaster for 70 plus year relative to other countries in the region and the planet. Literally the poorest country in the hemisphere.

By the way, insisting that haitian speaks multiple languages on the basis that you personally met a couple that spoke french is completely irrational.

Only 60 percent of the population was literate in the 2020 census. And you're proposing that you've met some haitians that spoke "better than me" as evidence for a population being multi-lingual, what?
 
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Big

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2019
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Maybe you should have wrote: "In my experience I have not come across many Haitians that speak French".
Because in my experience that has not been the case while living in the 🇩🇴.

Maybe the speaking of French is a benefit of education. And education is often a benefit of privilege.
So, now I am going to give you some education.
I attended the School of Languages at APEC
I actually went to classes and had classmates from Haiti. They all spoke French, most spoke English and they were in the same Spanish classes as I was in order to bring their Spanish up to college level (or they were fulfilling requirements for their degree).
All them spoke way more than "slang Spanish". And much better Spanish than I did.
I had a friend who was a house cleaner. She spoke four languages. One of them was French. She was from Haiti. And she could not get her papers in the 🇩🇴 to work.

I am glad you learned a meaningful language.
I know two now.🤪

Did anyone actually read the article in post #3?
It said:
"the people who could have afforded to buy a house or land in Haiti — middle- and upper-class families — are also the ones who have been able to afford to leave the country."
These are the exact people who ARE educated and can send their children to other countries to get educated.

Is this your opinion?
two things. You make stuff up (as usual) and the real estate market in Haiti is worse than a ponzi scam
 
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drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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I have tried to keep out of this education debate because the thread is supposed to be about Real Estate. But as Windy and Big stirred up the pot, it's hard to keep quiet. In my opinion and experience, the majority of Haitians who come here are the ones who want to make something of themselves. They mostly have reasonable education and are keen to learn more. The poor folks who live in the Haitian campo or in the city slums may not have the same education or ambition. I will now shut up.
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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I have tried to keep out of this education debate because the thread is supposed to be about Real Estate. But as Windy and Big stirred up the pot, it's hard to keep quiet. In my opinion and experience, the majority of Haitians who come here are the ones who want to make something of themselves. They mostly have reasonable education and are keen to learn more. The poor folks who live in the Haitian campo or in the city slums may not have the same education or ambition. I will now shut up.
I agree and will not post here ANY opinions to this subjects to the financial experts. Adios.
 
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johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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hmm that's unusual, as the majority of Haitians do not speak French. Part of the problem is just that, education. No business is going to hire someone that speaks gibberish and slang Spanish. As someone who speaks a meaningless language (Afrikaans) I would not complicate my business life with someone who can't communicate in a reasonable articulable manner.
Mr. Big the subject is Real estate in Haiti. No need to remind ME about what the subject is. Pay attention and stay focused.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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I have tried to keep out of this education debate because the thread is supposed to be about Real Estate. But as Windy and Big stirred up the pot, it's hard to keep quiet. In my opinion and experience, the majority of Haitians who come here are the ones who want to make something of themselves. They mostly have reasonable education and are keen to learn more. The poor folks who live in the Haitian campo or in the city slums may not have the same education or ambition. I will now shut up.
Your post is on point.
The education level of the Haitians that are leaving Haiti on average is higher.
That is leaving the real estate market few to no buyers currently.

Did anyone actually read the article in post #3?
It said: "the people who could have afforded to buy a house or land in Haiti — middle- and upper-class families — are also the ones who have been able to afford to leave the country."
These are the exact people who ARE educated and can send their children to other countries to get educated.

So, education plays a part. Just not the part those throwing out "red herring" logical fallacies are talking about.
Volumes have written over the ages on the " contrainian investing" However DR1 is not a forum board for me to post such opinions. I would be remiss to not suggest one can further their knowledge by research on this subject
And yet, the situation in Haiti is just such a contrarian investing situation.
But, if like all investment situations, it may not be for some people.

As for the "armed struggle", my understanding it that it is a gang turf war. Of the sort that has occurred in cities in my country of origin. It is not a direct attack on the government of Haiti nor constitutes a civil war. The conflict does not encompass the entire capital city let alone the entire country. Anyone posting up in here that can counter with facts supported by links to news reports that say otherwise is free to do so.
two things. You make stuff up (as usual)
Exactly what did I make up?
and the real estate market in Haiti is worse than a ponzi scam
Nice hyperbole my man.
But even you as a "educated" business man knows that is not true.
In a ponzi scam the entire thing collapses.
Nothing is left end the end but hardships.

Land
Real estate exists and is still there when the problems resolve in Haiti.
No more is being created, nor can it be totally destroyed.
Even in a nuclear war it will still be there and can be used again in time.

I will say it again.
I am not here to give anyone investment advice.
But this is the section of DR1 where we talk about Haiti.
Invest in what you know and have made money in the past.

"Scared money don't make no money."
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
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Don't let ignorant, arrogant, bullies steer your ship, Johne. Some of us learn from your posts and ideas, and who cares what the naysayers think! ;)
I appreciate what you say however DR 1 is unique in that one needs to parse their statements so as not to get "the whip put to me". For example you have indicated "ignorant" posters in the third person grammar. Not allowed in first person..so quite honesty is easier for me not to share years of experience of "talk/debate " on the subject (Haiti real estate" ) with a person that offers nothing more than life in the northern sector (caberete/Susua) STATING that a purchase of property in Haiti is for "stupid, ignorant people". I have ZERO interest in being part of such a conversation. Thanks again...let me give this some thought.
 

Tom0910

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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Agreed. Most of the Haitians I have met, which is dozens at least, have been relatively well educated. Far better than the average Dominican, and they've mostly spoken 3 or 4 languages. Creole (sp), English, Spanish and French. ALL of them spoke 3. They've been industrious, hard-working, entrepreneurial, and willing to do whatever it took to succeed.

It's grossly unfair to brush "Haitians" with the same brush and look at them in a negative light.
This has been my experience as well,most of the Haitians that I have met spoke and wrote better Spanish than most of the Dominicans that I have met.
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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I appreciate what you say however DR 1 is unique in that one needs to parse their statements so as not to get "the whip put to me". For example you have indicated "ignorant" posters in the third person grammar. Not allowed in first person..so quite honesty is easier for me not to share years of experience of "talk/debate " on the subject (Haiti real estate" ) with a person that offers nothing more than life in the northern sector (caberete/Susua) STATING that a purchase of property in Haiti is for "stupid, ignorant people". I have ZERO interest in being part of such a conversation. Thanks again...let me give this some thought.
Can you prove that purchasing in Haiti is not for stupid ignorant people? I suspect you cannot. But then you want no part of reality when it comes to things Haitian.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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Can you prove that purchasing in Haiti is not for stupid ignorant people? I suspect you cannot.
Of course he cannot. Just as you can't prove that not purchasing in Haiti is for stupid ignorant people.

"The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here's why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence)".
But then you want no part of reality when it comes to things Haitian.
Exactly what reality are your referring to when it come to things Haitian?

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion...
But some people state them as facts when they are not.
When it comes to opinions...everyone is right.
 

terantius

New member
Jul 28, 2022
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Plants
Your post is on point.
The education level of the Haitians that are leaving Haiti on average is higher.
That is leaving the real estate market few to no buyers currently.

Did anyone actually read the article in post #3?
It said: "the people who could have afforded to buy a house or land in Haiti — middle- and upper-class families — are also the ones who have been able to afford to leave the country."
These are the exact people who ARE educated and can send their children to other countries to get educated.

So, education plays a part. Just not the part those throwing out "red herring" logical fallacies are talking about.

And yet, the situation in Haiti is just such a contrarian investing situation.
But, if like all investment situations, it may not be for some people.

As for the "armed struggle", my understanding it that it is a gang turf war. Of the sort that has occurred in cities in my country of origin. It is not a direct attack on the government of Haiti nor constitutes a civil war. The conflict does not encompass the entire capital city let alone the entire country. Anyone posting up in here that can counter with facts supported by links to news reports that say otherwise is free to do so.

Exactly what did I make up?

Nice hyperbole my man.
But even you as a "educated" business man knows that is not true.
In a ponzi scam the entire thing collapses.
Nothing is left end the end but hardships.

Land
Real estate exists and is still there when the problems resolve in Haiti.
No more is being created, nor can it be totally destroyed.
Even in a nuclear war it will still be there and can be used again in time.

I will say it again.
I am not here to give anyone investment advice.
But this is the section of DR1 where we talk about Haiti.
Invest in what you know and have made money in the past.

"Scared money don't make no money."

The "educated" haitian population leaving the country does not mean
1: That it is the only population leaving the country, and NOTHING BACKS such a claim.
2: That it is a substantial enough aspect of their diaspora to even pretend that the Haitian immigrant in the D.R is multi-lingual and knows french.

You can have a extremely small minority immigrating as well as a gigantic majority immigrating simultaneously. Which is precisely what is happening.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for investment

The little "gang turf war" has displaced entire neighborhoods, and prompted Medics without border to express concerned as they're unable to operate under such conditions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-62292007
I don't know what country you're from, but open battle and killing over 200 people in 10 is not your regular gang war at all.

The property will still be there after the troubles are gone?
https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-port-au-prince-haiti-gangs-2460b7bb80ba22c698a4e037ab54098f
Haitian gang sets fire to the PROSECUTORS OFFICE.

Haitian gangs OCCUPIED the SUPREME COURT of the country.

And you're trying to convince others that their property will be respected in a country where the intuitions that represent the LAW are openly attacked?
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
2,195
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The "educated" haitian population leaving the country does not mean
1: That it is the only population leaving the country, and NOTHING BACKS such a claim.
Never made that claim.
2: That it is a substantial enough aspect of their diaspora to even pretend that the Haitian immigrant in the D.R is multi-lingual and knows french.
I gave an example of the individuals I knew personally.
Read my post again.
You will find that I stated very clearly the population of Haitians that I was speaking about.
You can have a extremely small minority immigrating as well as a gigantic majority immigrating simultaneously. Which is precisely what is happening.
I will stipulate to that statement and I never made a claim otherwise.
As for investment

The little "gang turf war" has displaced entire neighborhoods, and prompted Medics without border to express concerned as they're unable to operate under such conditions.
This article simply speaks of one neighborhood.
"But for the last two months, armed gangs have been fighting for control of Martissant, with the area effectively under siege".
Once again I see things in the article that you might have overlooked or ignored. As I have already not only read that article but started a thread on it. A thread that you have been silent in.
"The UN says that 209 people were killed between 8 and 17 July, of which 114 were gang members. A further 254 people have sustained gunshot wounds, more than half of them residents without links to the gangs.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-62292007
I don't know what country you're from, but open battle and killing over 200 people in 10 is not your regular gang war at all.
You don't need to know what country I am from. And I don't need to know what country you are from.
Take a look at the countries with the highest level of gun violence in the world (put your work in)...
And you will find that that 10 day total in Haiti is relatively low compared to a 10 day total of deaths day to day in these countries.
I am not one to believe the hype that the media wishes us to believe.
It is a regular gang war not a civil war where the armed groups are fighting for control of the government.
The property will still be there after the troubles are gone?
Once again, it appears to me that you are reacting and hitting the "post reply" button before reading my post.
I clearly said in post #49 Land.
Read the post again.
Carefully this time.
Yes, not as a challenge to the government. But a revenge to the police and to obstruct justice. I read the entire article. That is what I saw it saying.
Haitian gangs OCCUPIED the SUPREME COURT of the country.
Once again, I see articles being thrown up that just support my position. Thank you. You are doing all the heavy lifting for me.
"gang members equipped with automatic weapons raided the building and allegedly stole evidence, including drugs, weapons and money".
The judicial staff escaped.
That is not how you fight a revolutionary war.
You don't let anyone escape. You attack when the judges are there and kill them all or take them a prisoners of war.
These are common criminals.
And you're trying to convince others that their property will be respected in a country where the intuitions that represent the LAW are openly attacked?
A reading of my post answers your question.
And will only address by quoting myself because I cannot say it any better than I said it the first time.

"I will say it again.
I am not here to give anyone investment advice.
But this is the section of DR1 where we talk about Haiti.
Invest in what you know and have made money in the past.
"

☑️
 

NanSanPedro

Nickel with tin plating
Apr 12, 2019
4,397
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If I were 20 years younger I would consider investing in Haiti RE but not in PAP. There are other areas up north, which I'm most familiar with, that could make excellent rental income or help out those that need the help.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
2,195
1,518
113
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I am of the same mind @NanSanPedro too old to do any real good.
I would like to start a farm and build a self sustaining community.
But safety is paramount for me now.
Trying to enjoy the last of my years as I wait for death.
I (unlike others) have admitted that I am sitting in air conditioned comfort typing on my keyboard.
A man has to know his limitations.