Shipping EVs - Uncontrollable Fire

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
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As the virtue signaling push to inflict EVs on the world ramps up including bringing them into DR - especially used ones how long until we see a major conflagration on board a transit ship or in the customs holding area.

It's happening now of the coast of the Netherlands and the ship is in danger of sinking.

Personally I'm too impatient to sit and wait 2 hours to recharge a car, especially in a country with almost no charging stations, so I'll stick to gasoline or diesel.

And one must consider how a burning EV, that can't be extinguished, would damage the marquesina or casa - concrete is not immune to fire damage, particularly from the intense heat an EV fire creates.

 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,577
6,193
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Actions are going to have a lot of unintended consequences. My friend got a away with having one of the recalled potential fire bombs in his house.
Is the replacement under warranty that much better?

I will probably never own an electric car, but I could be faced with the nightmare of renting one on my next trip out of the DR.
 

PJT

Silver
Jan 8, 2002
3,605
343
83
Sometimes or maybe most of the time, governments do not fully evaluate the direct and indirect impacts of their decisions to go forward on green. Importing EV's to a country that has not fully planned or prepared its infrastructure to welcome the vehicles is foolish. It is a buyer's beware moment for the consumer charmed with the green movements to purchase electric. Chico Bill's post about charging stations tells us a lot in a few words about the DR's electric vehicle environment. EV is good if electric generation is renewable. However, most of the generation in the DR is fossil fuel, so EV just creates pollution at the source. Doubt the EV movement in the DR is carbon neutral. Lithium-ion batteries in EV's are a constant risk of fire. You can bet fire departments in the DR are little educated or prepared to extinguish an EV fire and control the toxic gases it generates.

You can bet shipping EV's is expensive and will become more expensive as ro-ro ships have to refit to store EV vehicles, commit additional fire suppression equipment, and have specialized fire training of crews. A fire aboard a ship is one of the hardest and most dangerous fires to attack. Ask any salt.


Regards,

PJT
 
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ese tipo

Newbie
Apr 12, 2019
97
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The power of suggestion!!!!! some of the very same folks for whom precautions for a pandemic were and are "the sky is falling" and a doomsday scenario are the very same who are warning us of the collapse of society should we switch to EV'S.As if a container filled with gas vehicles has never engulfed in the middle of the ocean isn't a mouse click away for us to witness, one carrying teslas is enough to shut it all down.The evolution of EV's is having and will continue to have growing pains.Much like any technology driven craze R&D will give us better, faster,cheaper.How many of us remember $1000 VCR"s in their infancy, or $1000 cell phone suitcases and bricks.pepperidge farm remembers!

The Ev Renaissance is alive and well and will do much better than it's initial rollout of yesteryear when big oil did it's bug squashing foot stomp and basically had us believe it was over and out.The very same oil peddlers want you to believe that even staring at an ev long enough will cause it to burst into flames.It is beyond me why a country that has rolling tuna cans with propane bombs aboard, motorcycles that are akin to swarms of mosquito sound levels of annoyance, and above all else, fuel costs that will never be on par with countries that don't have to have their fuel supply brought in by ship.

The implementation of EV's in my opinion should really take a backseat to other much more important issues on the island.Firstly,WATER!I won't elaborate as being born and raised stateside water scarcity has ( tank goodness ) never been an issue for me, and I have no experience in water treatment and collection.But the good folks on this site make me aware of the problems they encounter. Secondly the grid, you can read on this site the outages on a daily basis till you are blue in the face.The fact that power generation is provided by fossil fuels and is massively unstable at the very least signal to anyone that renewables should be further along than where they are now.Great lobbying has done wonders to casts doubts on the future but more importantly the need for EV's in our world,whether it's through range anxiety propaganda (having us insist upon upwards of 200 miles of capacity) when in all reality the likelihood of the population of the world needing to drive 200 miles on a daily basis is comical.Wait times at charging stations are another exaggeration.supercharging has cut those times down dramatically and will continue improve once the tech improves.As far as batteries:yes current Ev battery chemistry of lithium ion is frighteningly unstable, it seems as if the cries for capacity have also been the soft spot for safety. There are much better batteries that are available with chemistries that are much more stable and don't require such precious metals and elements and also have greater longevity. Why are we not using these you ask? Weight. Lithium ion energy density as compared to other chemistries is off the charts. One of the safest chemistries valuable is lithium iron phosphate. But, being heavier is its downfall the same weight as compared to LI-ion pales in comparison to available energy.But our tone deaf need for long range sadly pushes aside practicality.

If that long diatribe is not enough to convince you as to why Gas VS EV is in my opinion a no-brainer, let's put it into terms that you on the island should appreciate. When I was a kid in my teens I was broke had a clunker that was five dollars would allow me to move around in my city. The same holds true for an electric vehicle who says you need a full charge to do your shopping at La Sirena? A simple 120 V extension cord from your house can get you the 5 to 10 miles you may need to cover your shopping duties. And for those of you lucky enough that don't need to move your car for a whole day, who knows, three-quarter tank to full tank just off of an extension cord. But perhaps the biggest advantage in my humble opinion, why would you not take into consideration having a 10 to even 50,000 watt hour battery Parked in your driveway should mother nature caused the damage such as it did in the neighboring island of Puerto Rico? Remember, EV technology as opposed to gasoline powered vehicles has the distinct advantage of allowing you to use the stored energy to supply your household needs. Couple that with a modest solar installation and you have a self contained micro grid. Remember no power=no gas pumps. I realize as I write this last paragraph that I too am perhaps using scare tactics to stress my point. But having family on both islands allows me to see how one having the might of US infrastructure still allowed for a year long power outage. While the other God forbid he has to endure the same nightmare can only leave one to imagine the horrors.

Seems as though one's opinions of EV's brings upon the tell me your party affiliation without telling me your party affiliation vibe!
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
7,264
3,094
113
The power of suggestion!!!!! some of the very same folks for whom precautions for a pandemic were and are "the sky is falling" and a doomsday scenario are the very same who are warning us of the collapse of society should we switch to EV'S.As if a container filled with gas vehicles has never engulfed in the middle of the ocean isn't a mouse click away for us to witness, one carrying teslas is enough to shut it all down.The evolution of EV's is having and will continue to have growing pains.Much like any technology driven craze R&D will give us better, faster,cheaper.How many of us remember $1000 VCR"s in their infancy, or $1000 cell phone suitcases and bricks.pepperidge farm remembers!

The Ev Renaissance is alive and well and will do much better than it's initial rollout of yesteryear when big oil did it's bug squashing foot stomp and basically had us believe it was over and out.The very same oil peddlers want you to believe that even staring at an ev long enough will cause it to burst into flames.It is beyond me why a country that has rolling tuna cans with propane bombs aboard, motorcycles that are akin to swarms of mosquito sound levels of annoyance, and above all else, fuel costs that will never be on par with countries that don't have to have their fuel supply brought in by ship.

The implementation of EV's in my opinion should really take a backseat to other much more important issues on the island.Firstly,WATER!I won't elaborate as being born and raised stateside water scarcity has ( tank goodness ) never been an issue for me, and I have no experience in water treatment and collection.But the good folks on this site make me aware of the problems they encounter. Secondly the grid, you can read on this site the outages on a daily basis till you are blue in the face.The fact that power generation is provided by fossil fuels and is massively unstable at the very least signal to anyone that renewables should be further along than where they are now.Great lobbying has done wonders to casts doubts on the future but more importantly the need for EV's in our world,whether it's through range anxiety propaganda (having us insist upon upwards of 200 miles of capacity) when in all reality the likelihood of the population of the world needing to drive 200 miles on a daily basis is comical.Wait times at charging stations are another exaggeration.supercharging has cut those times down dramatically and will continue improve once the tech improves.As far as batteries:yes current Ev battery chemistry of lithium ion is frighteningly unstable, it seems as if the cries for capacity have also been the soft spot for safety. There are much better batteries that are available with chemistries that are much more stable and don't require such precious metals and elements and also have greater longevity. Why are we not using these you ask? Weight. Lithium ion energy density as compared to other chemistries is off the charts. One of the safest chemistries valuable is lithium iron phosphate. But, being heavier is its downfall the same weight as compared to LI-ion pales in comparison to available energy.But our tone deaf need for long range sadly pushes aside practicality.

If that long diatribe is not enough to convince you as to why Gas VS EV is in my opinion a no-brainer, let's put it into terms that you on the island should appreciate. When I was a kid in my teens I was broke had a clunker that was five dollars would allow me to move around in my city. The same holds true for an electric vehicle who says you need a full charge to do your shopping at La Sirena? A simple 120 V extension cord from your house can get you the 5 to 10 miles you may need to cover your shopping duties. And for those of you lucky enough that don't need to move your car for a whole day, who knows, three-quarter tank to full tank just off of an extension cord. But perhaps the biggest advantage in my humble opinion, why would you not take into consideration having a 10 to even 50,000 watt hour battery Parked in your driveway should mother nature caused the damage such as it did in the neighboring island of Puerto Rico? Remember, EV technology as opposed to gasoline powered vehicles has the distinct advantage of allowing you to use the stored energy to supply your household needs. Couple that with a modest solar installation and you have a self contained micro grid. Remember no power=no gas pumps. I realize as I write this last paragraph that I too am perhaps using scare tactics to stress my point. But having family on both islands allows me to see how one having the might of US infrastructure still allowed for a year long power outage. While the other God forbid he has to endure the same nightmare can only leave one to imagine the horrors.

Seems as though one's opinions of EV's brings upon the tell me your party affiliation without telling me your party affiliation vibe!
You would be more effective in presenting your sermon IFyou didn't put your audience down in your first paragraph. You would also might be less arrogant if you didn't assume what side of the polictical aisle members of this board sit on on since you are a newbie and it takes time to listen to others and their point of vie, since they live here. "Your scare tactics" that you think would be a bother,...don't worry, I can't think of but 1-2 people reading post are going to lose any sleep tonight. They might lose sleep bc of the flow rate of power! Power to light the house. Power to run the water pump. Power for communication to family. Power to run a mom and pap biz after sunset.

I don't suspect you live here full time dealing with the challenges since your remedies sound so ...hmmm, first world. ie;an extension cord into the drive way to charge your car. How clever. The f ing cord would be stolen as soon as your $100,000 car is charged and then they would come back later o steal the car.

PLease excuse my anger this morning. I went down to my mini farm this morning and someone emptied my 55 gal blue tank and stole the tank. Seriously.
 

JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
Jan 7, 2016
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I feel your pain. Better to put a large garbage bag or two in the tank after you punch holes in it so it can't be used for liquid storage.

And lock it with a lock and chain.
 
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RollingStone

Member
Nov 9, 2019
48
33
18
I've seen an increase in EV's in Santiago over the past year. Cars, not motos or pasolas. As the price of batteries continues to drop were going to start seeing more two wheeled vehicles here as well. Many people will charge inside their house or marquesina. Some EV motos have removable batteries which can be charged inside. People will figure out how to protect their extension cords.

Here's a link to a Car and Driver article about the fire risk of internal combustion, hybrid, and full EV vehicles. Click on This. Overall the risk of a fire is much less in an EV versus internal combustion. Once solid state batteries come on line the fire risk (which is currently way over hyped) is gone and other issues (over hyped as well) such as range and charge speed are resolved.

I love the instant acceleration and technology of the EV's. They're superior to internal combustion. One downside is this instant torque in the hands of tigueres will be problematic.

Many of us old fossils love our fossil fuels, but change is coming like it or not. It will be interesting to watch how the switch impacts the economy and lifestyle here on the island.
 
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Manuel01

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2009
957
995
93
As the virtue signaling push to inflict EVs on the world ramps up including bringing them into DR - especially used ones how long until we see a major conflagration on board a transit ship or in the customs holding area.

It's happening now of the coast of the Netherlands and the ship is in danger of sinking.

Personally I'm too impatient to sit and wait 2 hours to recharge a car, especially in a country with almost no charging stations, so I'll stick to gasoline or diesel.

And one must consider how a burning EV, that can't be extinguished, would damage the marquesina or casa - concrete is not immune to fire damage, particularly from the intense heat an EV fire creates.

ITS THE FUTURE IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT !
 

RollingStone

Member
Nov 9, 2019
48
33
18
People will find a way to protect their extension chords? Seriously?
What color is the sky in your world?
Lately with the Sahara dust or today? Today is clear blue. I've never had one stolen. Lent but not returned, yes. Anyway, I think you'd agree there's normally a work around to protect yourself and your property.
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
12,992
6,783
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I've seen an increase in EV's in Santiago over the past year. Cars, not motos or pasolas. As the price of batteries continues to drop were going to start seeing more two wheeled vehicles here as well. Many people will charge inside their house or marquesina. Some EV motos have removable batteries which can be charged inside. People will figure out how to protect their extension cords.

Here's a link to a Car and Driver article about the fire risk of internal combustion, hybrid, and full EV vehicles. Click on This. Overall the risk of a fire is much less in an EV versus internal combustion. Once solid state batteries come on line the fire risk (which is currently way over hyped) is gone and other issues (over hyped as well) such as range and charge speed are resolved.

I love the instant acceleration and technology of the EV's. They're superior to internal combustion. One downside is this instant torque in the hands of tigueres will be problematic.

Many of us old fossils love our fossil fuels.
Never bet against oil. Remember in Covid where it went below zero dollars a barrel?
People were saying it was finished.
I can see EVs making sense for some who do short repetitive trips then back home. Maybe as a 2nd car but for a round trip to Punta Cana or Santo Domingo no way.
But since the DR is mainly a market importing used cars EVs, which might have had damage, are risky for shippers.
It's not that gasoline cars can not catch fire, but they are shipped with little to no fuel and gasoline fires are able to be contained with conventional fire suppressants.
Lithium battery fires are not easy to extinguish.
It might be the wave of the future but certainly not for decades.
Insurance companies might stop insuring cargo vessels hauling EVs?
At least they will raise the rates. And flying one on an aircraft - not likely
 
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windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,577
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Lately with the Sahara dust or today? Today is clear blue. I've never had one stolen. Lent but not returned, yes. Anyway, I think you'd agree there's normally a work around to protect yourself and your property.
I cannot possibly see a work around for the thousands of people that would eventually own EVs with their cars parked on the streets of Santo Domingo and Santiago. Just imagine that scenario when the DR requires everyone to have an EV...
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
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I cannot possibly see a work around for the thousands of people that would eventually own EVs with their cars parked on the streets of Santo Domingo and Santiago. Just imagine that scenario when the DR requires everyone to have an EV...
What about your neighbor unplugging your EV from your charger to charge his - that would be the Dominican way
 
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RollingStone

Member
Nov 9, 2019
48
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Never bet against oil. Remember in Covid where it went below zero dollars a barrel?
People were saying it was finished.
I can see EVs making sense for some who do short repetitive trips then back home. Maybe as a 2nd car but for a round trip to Punta Cana or Santo Domingo no way.
But since the DR is mainly a market importing used cars EVs, which might have had damage, are risky for shippers.
It's not that gasoline cars can not catch fire, but they are shipped with little to no fuel and gasoline fires are able to be contained with conventional fire suppressants.
Lithium battery fires are not easy to extinguish.
It might be the wave of the future but certainly not for decades.
Insurance companies might stop insuring cargo vessels hauling EVs?
At least they will raise the rates. And flying one on an aircraft - not likely
Big oil has huge power and they've been fighting successfully against EV's for a long while. Times are changing and the big automakers all have EV plans now. The number of EV models available for purchase in the US is expected to double next year with over 50 new models to be introduced.

It absolutely will take awhile for those to trickle down to the DR but I expect we'll see significant adoption here in one decade, not decades.

You're right about lithium fires being problematic. I've had fun burning sodium back in the day and lithium is less reactive but once it gets going it's quite a show. I can't speak to shipping insurance but Tesla seems to be successfully adapting to the issue as they ship many vehicles.

The solid state batteries in the pipeline will resolve this issue (if it truly is an issue).

Beyond EV's, These batteries will be great for the wealthier classes (initially) in the DR as they provide a solution for energy backup.
 
Jan 9, 2004
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Having just brought in to the DR another batch of EV's, let me address a few points.

EV's in the DR are here to stay. There are currently thousands of all makes and models circulating in the DR.

Generally speaking, they all have their upsides and their downsides.......much like ice engine vehicles.

Suffice to say, they will likely never totally dominate any auto sales market except for possibly a handful of countries i.e., perhaps Norway as an example.

Despite the future ban on sales of ICE engine vehicles in both the US/EU and elsewhere, those bans will likely be rescinded. The US/EU and other countries that have banned the sale of ice engine vehicles in the next decade are not yet ready, nor will they be ready in that time frame...........Period. The technology is still not ready for prime time.

Better range, better infrastructure, and better batteries are all still obstacles..................but they are all being addressed. What the future holds for EV's is anyone's guess, but from where I sit, they are viable and getting more viable everyday. But its going to be a lot of days before mass adoption can be achieved.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2