Since the DR is a Catholic Country, will the local churches go along?

windeguy

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Pope Francis Allows Priests to Bless Same-Sex Relationships​

A church official said the blessings amounted to “a real development” that nevertheless did not amend “the traditional doctrine of the Church about marriage.”
 

Juan Bosch

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It will probably take some nudging as the DR Catholic Church is very conservative...this is not the performance of the sacrament of marriage but it opens the door...
 

NanSanPedro

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I doubt very seriously that it catches on. I'm not Catholic anymore but those Domincanos/as that I know would not take it very seriously. Nonetheless, if the pope showed up here for a visit, it would be a real big deal and that part of doctrine would be forgotten about quickly.
 

NALs

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Whatever the Vatican makes an official stance, the Dominican Catholic church can't oppose it. Whether it promotes it or not is a different story, but it can't go against that principle.

Although the Catholic church is the official religion of the country and every Catholic church is built and maintained by the Dominican government. There are also many other things that shows how close are the government and the Catholic church. For example, most of the government holidays are in fact Catholic religious holidays, many government institutions have a Catholic saint which it follows. Many times there are statues to the saint on the premise of the institution, such as the National Police Palace. On the day of the saint the head of the National Police and several high ranking officers must attend a mass in the Oldest Cathedral of the New World dedicated to that saint and the institution. Every anniversary of the Central Bsnk includes a Catholic mass that tskes place in its auditorium which has a large Latin cross behind the stage. Even the National Theater, which was built by the government, you can see the shape of the Latin cross from above. In all Dominican military bases there is a small altar dedicated to the virgin La Altagracia and in many there is even a church. There is a Catholic chapel next to the National Palace for use of the President and his family plus high ranking people in several institutions and the military. There are government built and maintained parks that obviously have a religious name such as the Jesus Christ Park near the National Palace and even it has a statue of Jesus Christ placed there by the government, not the church. The latest one is Cristo Park (Christ Park) in Cristo Rey (ironically, that neighborhood's name translate to King Christ). Many government owned hospitals, buildings, schools, etc are named after saints, virgins, priests, etc. Several of the provinces have religious names such as Monseñor Nouel or La Altagracia, even public roads have religious such as the Samaná-Santo Domingo highway, one of its official names is "autopista Juan Pablo II (aka John Paul II Highway, as in the Polish pope that visited the DR on seversl occasions.) Also the full names of many towns and cities are religious such as San Felipe de Puerto Plata (Saint Phillip of the Silver Port), Santiago de los Caballeros (Saint James of the Gentlemen), Santa Rosa de Bonao (Saint Rose of Bonao), Santa Bárbara de Samaná (Saint Barbara of Samaná), Santo Domingo (Saint Dominic), etc.

It's Catholic church policy that it (traditionally) condemns homosexual acts, but it doesn't condem the actual person. That is why a Catholic church can't turn away a homosexual if it wants to join and be part of the mass, it can't prohibit one from praying in the church, etc. But it will not marry a homosexual couple among many other things. Whatever new changes the Vatican adopts regarding that, the Dominican Catholic church doesn't have much of a choice than to accept it.

With that said, I have read on multiple occasions in old out-of-print books and documents that the Dominican Catholic church was greatly criticized by the Catholic churches of other countries because it was normal for Dominican priests to have publicly revognized children. I think it was Otto Schenrich that wrote in his book of an occasion he met a group of Dominican women walking on a road and the discussion between him and the women was the church they were walking to. He ask them for how long the local priest has been a priest in that church and a woman responds in complete seriousness that he had to be a priest there because his son is over 40 years old and he was a priest of that church since before the son was born. In case anyone doesn't know, Catholic priests are not suppose to have kids or even a wife.
 

AlterEgo

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Whatever the Vatican makes an official stance, the Dominican Catholic church can't oppose it. Whether it promotes it or not is a different story, but it can't go against that principle.

Although the Catholic church is the official religion of the country and every Catholic church is built and maintained by the Dominican government. There are also many other things that shows how close are the government and the Catholic church. For example, most of the government holidays are in fact Catholic religious holidays, many government institutions have a Catholic saint which it follows. Many times there are statues to the saint on the premise of the institution, such as the National Police Palace. On the day of the saint the head of the National Police and several high ranking officers must attend a mass in the Oldest Cathedral of the New World dedicated to that saint and the institution. Every anniversary of the Central Bsnk includes a Catholic mass that tskes place in its auditorium which has a large Latin cross behind the stage. Even the National Theater, which was built by the government, you can see the shape of the Latin cross from above. In all Dominican military bases there is a small altar dedicated to the virgin La Altagracia and in many there is even a church. There is a Catholic chapel next to the National Palace for use of the President and his family plus high ranking people in several institutions and the military. There are government built and maintained parks that obviously have a religious name such as the Jesus Christ Park near the National Palace and even it has a statue of Jesus Christ placed there by the government, not the church. The latest one is Cristo Park (Christ Park) in Cristo Rey (ironically, that neighborhood's name translate to King Christ). Many government owned hospitals, buildings, schools, etc are named after saints, virgins, priests, etc. Several of the provinces have religious names such as Monseñor Nouel or La Altagracia, even public roads have religious such as the Samaná-Santo Domingo highway, one of its official names is "autopista Juan Pablo II (aka John Paul II Highway, as in the Polish pope that visited the DR on seversl occasions.) Also the full names of many towns and cities are religious such as San Felipe de Puerto Plata (Saint Phillip of the Silver Port), Santiago de los Caballeros (Saint James of the Gentlemen), Santa Rosa de Bonao (Saint Rose of Bonao), Santa Bárbara de Samaná (Saint Barbara of Samaná), Santo Domingo (Saint Dominic), etc.

It's Catholic church policy that it (traditionally) condemns homosexual acts, but it doesn't condem the actual person. That is why a Catholic church can't turn away a homosexual if it wants to join and be part of the mass, it can't prohibit one from praying in the church, etc. But it will not marry a homosexual couple among many other things. Whatever new changes the Vatican adopts regarding that, the Dominican Catholic church doesn't have much of a choice than to accept it.

With that said, I have read on multiple occasions in old out-of-print books and documents that the Dominican Catholic church was greatly criticized by the Catholic churches of other countries because it was normal for Dominican priests to have publicly revognized children. I think it was Otto Schenrich that wrote in his book of an occasion he met a group of Dominican women walking on a road and the discussion between him and the women was the church they were walking to. He ask them for how long the local priest has been a priest in that church and a woman responds in complete seriousness that he had to be a priest there because his son is over 40 years old and he was a priest of that church since before the son was born. In case anyone doesn't know, Catholic priests are not suppose to have kids or even a wife.

It was the same way in Italy, even some Popes had children. Parish priests with mistresses weren’t uncommon into 1800s. That was then this is now. What the Pope is approving is a “blessing” of gay couples, not the sacrament of marriage. Big difference.
 

Auryn

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Apr 22, 2012
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Canon law means only as much as the community in question. They can be as archaic as they so choose. Progressive maybe not but archaic, absolutely.

For example, many African countries still don’t allow two godparents of the same gender. People born in the 70s in North America may have had two aunts, for example, act as godparents. This has been acceptable by Canon law for decades, yet many dioceses refuse to acknowledge it. Then priests trained with such beliefs continue their various versions in whatever parish they’re sent to around the world.

Let’s remember that the reason that Latin America is Catholic in the first place is because of Spanish colonization.
 
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And I am sending all your perspectives to my dear friend and priest here in the DR. So please continue the discussion.
 

NALs

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It was the same way in Italy, even some Popes had children. Parish priests with mistresses weren’t uncommon into 1800s. That was then this is now. What the Pope is approving is a “blessing” of gay couples, not the sacrament of marriage. Big difference.
The point is that while the Dominican Catholic church can't oppose whatever the Vatican decides, things not always follow that route. This is despite the Vatican is above the Dominican Catholic church. In fact, there is a reason why Catholic institutions in the DR usually have a flag of the Vatican next to the Dominican flag and not some flag to represent the Dominican Catholic church only. Check, for example, the campuses of every Catholic university in the DR (PUCMM, UCSD, UCATECI, etc.) The yellow and white flag with the Vatican's coat of arms is from the...

It was never an approved policy of the Vatican for priests to have children or even wives, yet it was widespread in the DR and made the Dominican Catholic church subject to criticism by the Catholic church of neighboring countries. This is documented.

In a way, today many priests are also into homosexual acts and even into pederasty, but approval of both actions aren't the official stance of the Vatican. Have yet to see any priest get into serious trouble with the Vatican if they are caught in any of those two acts. If anything, they are moved to another church or even to another country and continue with their priesthood.
 

NALs

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Btw, there are prominent Dominicans from the past that are said their real biological fathers were priests. The best example is Buenaventura Báez, who was president of the DR in various occasions. Officially, his father (and who's last name he carried) was the Spaniard Pedro (or was it Juan?) Báez that settled in San Juan de la Maguana, but what is said is that his actual biological father was Antonio Sánchez Valverde. He was a Catholic priest native of Cotuí. In fact, he wrote this book in 1785 (this is my copy, not the original one) meant for the King of Spain:

JAB4xP2.jpg


One of the few Dominicans that knew how to read and write.
 

windeguy

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It was the same way in Italy, even some Popes had children. Parish priests with mistresses weren’t uncommon into 1800s. That was then this is now. What the Pope is approving is a “blessing” of gay couples, not the sacrament of marriage. Big difference.
Hooray alter ego for having said it.
So the Catholic Church is still bigoted on this matter.
What a surprise.
 
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windeguy

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What is the point of arguing all of this? There are many Dominican men who have 8 children "because God willed it" but cannot remember all their names and birthdays and some are wearing a crucifix in their mugshot.
Ask that of an LGBTQ++++ person and see what answer they provide.

All I know from what I have read is that they would likely consider the leaders of the Catholic Church to be bigots for coming up with this "Blessing" BS.
 
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PJT

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How the DR Church responds to the Pope's message will disclose its allegiance to it or the State. There will be many interpretations by the clergy of the Concordat of 1954 between the Vatican and the state as to whether they can or cannot make blessings. Whatever happens, if the Church does offer blessings to same sex relationships, they will be restrained.

Regards,

PJT
 

NALs

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How the DR Church responds to the Pope's message will disclose its allegiance to it or the State. There will be many interpretations by the clergy of the Concordat of 1954 between the Vatican and the state as to whether they can or cannot make blessings. Whatever happens, if the Church does offer blessings to same sex relationships, they will be restrained.

Regards,

PJT
Btw, the Concordat simply put in writing what was already happening. In fact, the Catholic church was a major supporter for the creation of the DR (remember the Dominican Catholic church was suppressed by the Boyer dictatorship and things like all church properties were confiscated by the Haitian government; one of the insults to Haitian military soldiers was to call them atheists.) It's stipulated in the Manifesto not just the reasons for why the DR would be created, but also that the official religion would be the Catholic church though it also says freedom of religion would be respected.

A little known fact is that the DR still has a law that majes atheism illegal. Technically, a person can go to jail for claiming thry don't believe in God. I don't think they enforce that law, but it's in the books!
 
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CristoRey

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New ideologies spreading like wild fire.
The next time any of you are in the company of a group of Dominican men over 30 years of age...
ask them what they think about same sex marriages being legalized here in the DR? lmao!
 

johne

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A little known fact is that the DR still has a law that majes atheism illegal. Technically, a person can go to jail for claiming thry don't believe in God. I don't think they enforce that law, but it's in the books!
Interesting Nals. In fact to those that want to follow the laws to the nth degree here in the DR, like "over staying", they might want to stop bashing the church.
Especially those that have citizenship and are avowed atheists on public forums. Clearly, no members here fit that profile...me thinks.
 

windeguy

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Interesting Nals. In fact to those that want to follow the laws to the nth degree here in the DR, like "over staying", they might want to stop bashing the church.
Especially those that have citizenship and are avowed atheists on public forums. Clearly, no members here fit that profile...me thinks.
Bashing Bigots won't stop.