Sosua Beach Unions Want More Involvement

[ramesses]

YES , you are "clueless" ( not literally , but compared to the Big Money people who actually make things happen and are very Educated )
.. people who think they understand the bigger picture, and who obviously have a more limited Education , are usually the most clueless of all .

This Beach cleansing WILL happen . and its the RIGHT thing for the people who actually OWN the Property and the bigger picture of the North Coast .
this is their Pay day ( property owners) ... and yes they have a right to Celebrate or be " Festive"

Your pretentiousness of looking out for the Little Guy falls way short .
The people who want to have JOBS will Look for a Job in the Newly built Beach Complex . thats on them
No job is OWED to anyone .

What some of you keep forgetting is that you are a GUEST in the DR , even if you have Family there ,you are still a guest if you dont live there 24/7 .. and your Opinion means LESS than Nothing .
So please stop trying to impress people with your Altruistic Double talk .
What you really want to go on forever is the Popping of Bottles in the Beach , pretending your $$ is keeping the Poor Girls Fed and clothed and supplying their Babies with Leche . I myself used to prescribe to that Philosophy ,, but the Times they are a changing ..Big Corporations are moving in .
so you better get on board or find a new Place on the Island where you are the Big Fish in the Little Pond..

The beach change will happen. I remember seeing plans back in 2002 when I first visited Sosua. There was a marina in those plans, Charamicos was also cleared. This is many decades in the works. It's not if, it's when. This does not mean we have to like it. For me it's not about being a big fish, it's about liking sleepy beach towns. I have already found a new one.

 

[jd426]

The beach change will happen. I remember seeing plans back in 2002 when I first visited Sosua. There was a marina in those plans, Charamicos was also cleared. This is many decades in the works. It's not if, it's when. This does not mean we have to like it. For me it's not about being a big fish, it's about liking sleepy beach towns. I have already found a new one.

Unfortunately , we DO have to " take it " , take what we get, and Roll with it , or maybe move on to another spot
and pretending like we can do anything about it is just a complete waste of energy .
Everyone has a right to be upset . no denying that .

I enjoy that quaint little beach as much as any of you.. and in my mind I WISH this would take another 10 years for things to happen , so I got some time to enjoy it a little more . but that is not reality my Friend .

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

The beach change will happen. I remember seeing plans back in 2002 when I first visited Sosua. There was a marina in those plans, Charamicos was also cleared. This is many decades in the works. It's not if, it's when. This does not mean we have to like it. For me it's not about being a big fish, it's about liking sleepy beach towns. I have already found a new one.

Yes, I am in 100% agreement my brother.
And like you, I have already found my new sleepy beach town.
As for fish, I like to do it. Especially deep sea fishing. I just don't have enough time to do everything I like here in the Dominican Republic.
So I have to be content to working on my backhand and hitting more greens until the demands on my time decrease.

Does anyone posting up in here have any skin in the game for this project?
I don't ‼️
The project will continue without my input.
But I can say whatever the moderators allow me to say up in here.
And will continue to until they ban me.
And those who don't like can put me on ignore or stuff it into their hole.

There are individuals who do not live in the Dominican Republic full time.
Yet they post like they know what the real deal is having boots on the ground.
This is a public forum on the internet.
So I do not reveal the true extent of my commitment to life in the Dominican Republic.
But I am not sitting in another country hating on others personally because they live differently than I do.
But I recognize that I will always be a guest here.
I will always be Gringo Negro.
But I am comfortable with my personal situation.
Now back to my regularly scheduled enjoyment of life.

 

[zoomzx11]

I am late to the party but has anyone seen the plans?

All I read is platitudes about how great the idea will be for the town.
In the real world changes like this are put to a referendum so that people who actually live and or own property have a say.

I am more than a little skeptical when property worth a fortune is manipulated in any way by the government.

 

[Joseph NY2STI]

Pardon my naivete, but is there such a thing as an online public records database in D.R. where one may find the owner of a parcel as well as any permits filed? Is there such a thing as public real estate records at all, even those that can be viewed in person?

 

[ramesses]

I am late to the party but has anyone seen the plans?

All I read is platitudes about how great the idea will be for the town.
In the real world changes like this are put to a referendum so that people who actually live and or own property have a say.

I am more than a little skeptical when property worth a fortune is manipulated in any way by the government.

I get the feeling it won't turn out the way people expect or prefer. Government has been know to screw things up pretty good.

 

[cavok]

Review post #716 in this thread.

Your circular reasoning is that I have stipulated to the fact that the Beach Vendors have no legal right to be on the beach.
Both you and the C boy continue to ignore that when they reply to my posts. 🗣️
Why you keep taking issues with me after I have agreed with both of you.
But fail to address my basic questions?

I as a business owner would not open a business without the legal right to conduct business in that location.
That is just me.

@cavok

Do you own property in the Dominican Republic?
I doubt you do.
How do I know this?
Because I asked you more than once to explain why a property owner would allow a prime piece of beach front property to be used in full view of everyone while knowing they were making profit on their property for years, for years and received nothing while being required to pay property taxes on that property the entire time.

If I am wrong and you do own property in the Dominican Republic
Would you allow anyone to come onto that property and set up a business?
Then run that business for years?
And never address the issue?
If you would not, tell us why you would not?

You and the other C boy are free to address these questions.
But neither of you will.
Why is that?

Well this is something that we can agree on. And I am glad to see that you will not be bringing your lawn chair to the festivities like the other C boy.

Damn Straight‼️
But I don't drink and drive (nor post).

But yes, harder in the paint on the basketball court, harder between the lines on the tennis court (my net game is fierce), harder on the grass of greens (12 footer, braking four inches right, nothing but cup) and harder in the Bourbon, Scotch, Vodka, Ron, Rhum and Tequila.
I live in the 🇩🇴.
I enjoy my life brother.
I suggest that everyone do that.
No one should just get their enjoyment out of life being a keyboard warrior on DR1 🤪

Respectfully,
Gringo Negro reppin EASTSIDE!!

Whether or not the owners have been receiving any compensation is a fair question and I think I did answer that. I said any leases the vendors might have now have lapsed into month-to-month leases which would leave them with no legal right at the end of a month. My opinion is based on the fact that not once has any vendor ever mentioned that they have any legal right to the property. Not impossible, but I doubt the owner was allowing all those businesses to stay there w/o collecting something.

If I were the owner and now had developers knocking on my door offering big money, I wouldn't be offering any long-term leases to those vendors. There's been interest and talk about developing that land for at least 20 years now.

I don't play basketball, golf, haven't played tennis in 20 years, and rarely drink any hard liquor - so you win on all four counts. I've owned here for over 15 years.

 

[windeguy]

When you use terms like "bring a lawn chair to the festivities" that is someone who is taking psychopathic like joy in the misfortune of others.

The mistake the vendors made is that they failed to secure their rights under the law.

There was never a chance for this to happen. How could they secure rights to property they don't own on land that was never for sale but they have their business on?

But during this time I think the "middle class Dominican family" received benefits.
I have no proof of this.
But my thoughts are individuals are just lying when they say they property owners are the victims here.

Squatters on someone else's land and you can't see the owners of the land as victims? Why not?

The property owners have the right to do with their land whatever the government allows them to do.
But when individuals write that the property owners are the victims here they are insulting the intelligence each and everyone one reading and making posts up in here.
They want us to believe that all the money earned during this entire time by the beach vendors that were on the land in question that not a single peso went into the pockets of the property owners.
I call Bull ‼️

I would say you are wrong. Simply plain wrong in how you view this.

It amazes me how when you disagree with someone here and they don't like it they start calling names.
They use terms like "clueless" when others use terms and express opinions that they disagree with.
They twist the arguments and cherry pick the points they wish to make in order to...
Benefit themselves?
Keyboard warriors that would never speak to another human being to their face the way they write up in here.
My only regret is that I only have two middle fingers to put up to them.


Exactly
And that is what the "property rights" people want us to believe.
I don't believe it.
And they can not prove it.
It is not like the property owners are going to say "Yeah, I been getting paid, but now I can get paid more so @#$% all these people and their livelihoods".
Nah, they got people looking forward to watching.
They are bringing their lawn chairs.
Cause dey luv wachin others git paid.

I am not sure why you have a problem understanding private property versus squatters.

 

[windeguy]

The property rights people are like the people riding around in one of the cars that roll through the barrio blasting the offers for produce over the loudspeaker 🗣️

When are you property rights people gonna get it through your head that the vendors have no rights.
That the owner can do whatever they wish with the property that the government allows them to do.
I and others have stipulated to that.

Agreed. But you seem to have stated the very opposite of that in previous posts.

So far, I have not seen anyone give a reason why a property owner would allow squatters on their land for years while receiving nothing.

I have no idea why they allowed this for so long. Lack of interest is my best guess.

Somebody help me out.
What is the property tax you need to pay the Dominican Government?
Waiting...
1% a year on value over around 151,000 USD
Now if I am wrong I am sure that someone will let me know quick.

Anyone want to guess what the value of the beach front property is?

It is whatever the government says it is. It is not easy to find out such information in the DR.

This is an opinion forum.
And people are expressing their opinions on the actions.
And NONE of you property rights people have explained why the owner would allow this situation to occur and receive no benefit.
It is not like they were absentee owners who returned after many years only to discover their prime piece of real estate is being used without their benefit.

Do the property rights people actually own property in the 🇩🇴?
Or they just talking out the side of the mouth?

Who actually allows a situation like this to happen?
Who among us own property and allows others to use it without our permission all the while not receiving any benefits from it?

I have no idea why the actual owners let it go for this long. I also don't care because it is irrelevant to future events

What is interesting is what will happen next. Particularly how much rioting happens and how much tear gas is used and for how long.

 

[Gadfly]

Yes, this could start tomorrow. Or in years. I remember the plans for the marina in ‘08.

 

[johne]

Pardon my naivete, but is there such a thing as an online public records database in D.R. where one may find the owner of a parcel as well as any permits filed? Is there such a thing as public real estate records at all, even those that can be viewed in person?

Think this is Court St. Brooklyn NY? Building dept 3 fl meet with an expediter and have him run the records for you?? LOL but I know where you're coming from. Good luck with that in wonder land.

 

[windeguy]

Pardon my naivete, but is there such a thing as an online public records database in D.R. where one may find the owner of a parcel as well as any permits filed? Is there such a thing as public real estate records at all, even those that can be viewed in person?

No, you would have to go to the local title office, for our area this would be in Puerto Plata, and with luck find what you are looking for in hard copy documents. Some of them might have been scanned, but I have not heard of this as being easy at all. We have some property near my house and nobody can find out who owns it.

 

[NanSanPedro]

No, you would have to go to the local title office, for our area this would be in Puerto Plata, and with luck find what you are looking for in hard copy documents. Some of them might have been scanned, but I have not heard of this as being easy at all. We have some property near my house and nobody can find out who owns it.

Put up some signs that say future home of Marriott/Ritz-Carlton/Hodelpa/etc. I bet you find out real fast.

 

[Joseph NY2STI]

No, you would have to go to the local title office, for our area this would be in Puerto Plata, and with luck find what you are looking for in hard copy documents. Some of them might have been scanned, but I have not heard of this as being easy at all. We have some property near my house and nobody can find out who owns it.

Oh well, it was worth a thought.

 

[iaminthedr2014]

Entrepreneurs on Sosúa beach do not feel heard​

Spokespersons for three trade unions criticized the government's plans for the restructuring of Sosúa beach. According to the spokespersons, including the Association of Craft Sellers of Sosúa Beach, the beach is owned by the Dominican population. Entrepreneurs with a multitude of companies have been active on this beach for 40 years.​

Entrepreneurs on Sosúa beach do not feel heard​

These include restaurants, bars, liquor stores, dining halls, shops, warehouses, banks and cafes. In addition to owners of boats, catamarans, snorkelers, divers, glass boats, banana boats, hairdressers, masseurs, manicurists, musicians, fruit growers, beach chair renters, shrimpers, and oyster farmers. But also motoconchos, taxis, public transport and hardware stores and supermarkets depend on it. According to these union representatives, the beach is the largest job engine in Sosúa. Now, the privatization of the beach threatens to take all these entrepreneurs out of business. At least, so far they have not been involved in the change plans. The unions are now calling on the government to involve entrepreneurs in these plans as soon as possible so that the unrest that has now arisen can be resolved.​

Do these vendors pay income tax and collect sales tax (ITBIS) NO THEN GO AWAY,

 

[cavok]

According to the spokespersons, including the Association of Craft Sellers of Sosúa Beach, the beach is owned by the Dominican population.​

This is the misleading narrative that has been fed to the vendors and the largely ignorant public. The first 60 meters from the mean high tide belongs to the public - from there on back is private property.

 

[windeguy]

According to the spokespersons, including the Association of Craft Sellers of Sosúa Beach, the beach is owned by the Dominican population.​

This is the misleading narrative that has been fed to the vendors and the largely ignorant public. The first 60 meters from the mean high tide belongs to the public - from there on back is private property.

And if someone tries to build on that first 60 meters (or otherwise control access to it by blocking public roads), the government would remove them. Just like what finally happened at Encuentro to the beach vendors and the company that tried to block public roads that accessed that beach. All the vendors had to move back and there are only a few of those vendors left. By the way, that took YEARS and only happened after the corrupt mayors of Cabarete were gone.

The vendors who are squatters on private land behind the public 60 meter access on Sosua Beach are indeed being misled by such statements.

 

[Big]

And if someone tries to build on that first 60 meters (or otherwise control access to it by blocking public roads), the government would remove them. Just like what finally happened at Encuentro to the beach vendors and the company that tried to block public roads that accessed that beach. All the vendors had to move back and there are only a few of those vendors left. By the way, that took YEARS and only happened after the corrupt mayors of Cabarete were gone.

The vendors who are squatters on private land behind the public 60 meter access on Sosua Beach are indeed being misled by such statements.

as a landlord of both residential and commercial properties I always have to deal with the tales of woe from tenants . Everyone wants special consideration.

 

[zoomzx11]

Yes, this could start tomorrow. Or in years. I remember the plans for the marina in ‘08.

I remember the pretty drawings.
So, does anyone know if we have any pretty drawings showing the wonderful new beach?

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

There was never a chance for this to happen. How could they secure rights to property they don't own on land that was never for sale but they have their business on?

Squatters on someone else's land and you can't see the owners of the land as victims? Why not?

I would say you are wrong. Simply plain wrong in how you view this.

I am not sure why you have a problem understanding private property versus squatters.

Agreed. But you seem to have stated the very opposite of that in previous posts.

I have no idea why they allowed this for so long. Lack of interest is my best guess.

It is whatever the government says it is. It is not easy to find out such information in the DR.

I have no idea why the actual owners let it go for this long. I also don't care because it is irrelevant to future events

What is interesting is what will happen next. Particularly how much rioting happens and how much tear gas is used and for how long.

"I shared my opinion.
And I respect yours.
To listen to one another is another way to learn.
Always we can learn by exposing ourselves to other perspectives." - @LindseyKaufman

@LindseyKaufman shared this with and I am passing on the thought on to you @windeguy

Have a good day my man‼️