Sosua Beach Unions Want More Involvement

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ramesses

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"Dentro del acuerdo se dio a conocer la construcción de otra plaza para completar la reubicación de todos los miembros, con esta nueva plaza que se agregará sumarán tres en total en el proyecto de remoción y rescate de la afanada playa del municipio turístico de Sosúa."

Doesn't make sense, but it sounds like there will now be three plazas(?).

It also say relocation of all members. Sounds like 3 plazas (they don't say how many units) and a 300 car parking lot? Can't fit much else.
 

habi

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Unfortunately no plan either to find on the CEIZTUR website (link to the plans but they are not to find there anymore...
https://we.tl/t-BVwpJZlSlX (ENLACE PLANOS)

But a lot of information regarding costs and so on.....
The ones interested have look at the below...

 
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Yourmaninvegas

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It has been written several times that "The Beach Vendors have no legal rights".
Maybe or maybe not.

A very knowledgable friend told me about the concept of Adverse Possession.
In a nutshell:
It is the legal concept where Title can be granted to someone who resides on or is in possession of another persons land.
It would require a Dominican Attorney to review the facts of the case to determine if the Beach Vendors or the organization or individuals currently in control of the property currently under discussion could qualify for a claim.

Would anyone with any real legal knowledge like to share their insight on this concept?

Because from my perspective it would seem that there is enough money at stake that if a claim was made and the possibility of prevailing in the legal action existed...there would be attempts made to sit down at the settlement table really quickly.

You can get more with a kind word and a gun...than with just a kind word.
 

jd426

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The President of the Country is involved , so its highly doubtful that his People have not checked out about these matters of Property Rights of squatters , or " Adverse Possession" etc etc etc ( and they most definitely are Squatters at least on the Public Beach part)

again ..these are very intelligent people who are running the Show and they have BIGGER GUNS ... the rest of us are CLUELESS in Such Big Business and Tourism Matters which affects the entire North Coast ..

This is a Done deal ..anyone who cant see it just does not understand how things work in the DR .. all the very obvious signs and blessings are right there to see.

and again, we are all just GUESTS ..
 

cavok

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Title by adverse possession is a very common and well known concept in the US. The rules vary state by state. Many require the taxes to have been paid,. No idea if it exists here. Many of the casitas are within the 60 meter set back, so the point is moot. for them. I'd be real surprised if the others haven't already looked into this.
 
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windeguy

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From Detras del Rumor thi afternoon June 23

PUERTO PLATA,- En el de hoy el Ministerio de Turismo y Asociación de vendedores de la playa Sosúa arribaron a un acuerdo de reubicación, luego de una importante reunión que sostuvieron con el ministro David Callado.
Dentro del acuerdo se dio a conocer la construcción de otra plaza para completar la reubicación de todos los miembros, con esta nueva plaza que se agregará sumarán tres en total en el proyecto de remoción y rescate de la afanada playa del municipio turístico de Sosúa.
El ministro Collado se hizo acompañar de varios funcionarios locales donde figuran la señora Gobernadora Claritza Rochtte, el Director general del teleférico de Puerto Plata Atahualpa Paulino y el Alcalde del municipio de Sosúa Willy Olivence (El Chamo)
Google translated the above:
PUERTO PLATA, - In today's Ministry of Tourism and Association of Sosúa beach vendors arrived at a relocation agreement, after an important meeting they held with Minister David Callado.

Within the agreement, the construction of another plaza was announced to complete the relocation of all members, with this new plaza to be added, three in total will be added to the project to remove and rescue the busy beach of the tourist municipality of Sosúa.

Minister Collado was accompanied by several local officials, including Mrs. Governor Claritza Rochtte, the General Director of the Puerto Plata Atahualpa Paulino cable car and the Mayor of the municipality of Sosúa Willy Olivence (El Chamo)


For some reason, I don't believe that anything close all of the current association members will be in that new square to be constructed. Anyone think this will house 50 odd businesses? Nor does this account agree with other reports that there will be ONE plaza and TWO restaurants in other locations with associated bathrooms. I think Detras is detras on this one. But that is just me.
 

windeguy

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Is Detras del Rumor normally a good source of accurate information?
In General, Fabio is pretty good. He missed the mark on this one since there is no way all vendors can fit in one plaza. And there is only one plaza, not three in the governments plans. He also failed to mention the very significant 300 parking spaces.
 

AlaPlaya

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If they are paying rent to those who don't own the land then they are simply squatters "once removed" . Are they still squatters? YES. And with no legal standing to get reimbursed for being displaced. ... Why did they wait so long? I have no idea, but all of those places are long gone and nobody who was displaced was paid anything.

I have no idea what the motivations of the actual owners were in waiting for so long. You would have to ask them directly. As I mentioned the name of the family is in the news posted previously, so feel free to ask them.

I don't know the exact status of the law here, but in most countries squatters can gain rights to the land after they have occupied it for many years (usually between 15-25 years). So typically, as long as the true owner asserts a claim to his own land and evicts the squatters before the expiration of that period, the clock on the squatters rights goes right back to zero and they again need to spend the prescribed period of time before they can acquire it based upon squatters rights.
 

windeguy

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I don't know the exact status of the law here, but in most countries squatters can gain rights to the land after they have occupied it for many years (usually between 15-25 years). So typically, as long as the true owner asserts a claim to his own land and evicts the squatters before the expiration of that period, the clock on the squatters rights goes right back to zero and they again need to spend the prescribed period of time before they can acquire it based upon squatters rights.
There is some precedent, like this, which is about rural land and it is very specific as to it being farm land:


Another that seems to favor owners and not squatters, but the wording is confusing as in many articles I read on DR news.

The frequent invasions of urban and farmlands by squatters seriously violates the right to property and pose a permanent threat to the country’s social stability, according to business leaders and professionals.

They said the actions by what National District Attorney, Yeni Berenice Reynoso calls ‘mafias’ include unauthorized evictions must be dealt with because they could create confusion. In fact, they protect groups of squatters on premises for years, taking legally established families and businesses to ruin.

They acknowledge however, that lawful evictions “must be guaranteed, because this protects legitimate rights clearly defined in the Constitution and Dominican laws.”
With the backing of the President of the DR and the Ministry of Tourism, any squatters on Sosua Beach don't stand a chance in court. That is just my opinion, What does the DR1 legal team say? What exactly are the laws? If anyone finds them please post a link.
 
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windeguy

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I have a vague recollection that there is some possibility of squatters rights in the DR after 28 years. (This came up years ago in a discussion regarding La Cienaga in Cabarete, which is built on filled in public park wetlands. )
 

ctrob

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In General, Fabio is pretty good. He missed the mark on this one since there is no way all vendors can fit in one plaza. And there is only one plaza, not three in the governments plans. He also failed to mention the very significant 300 parking spaces.

As I've said before, I don't expect any of the current vendors ending up in a plaza. The Executive Branch is involved, the President probably walked away with a Penthouse and 10 plaza spots. He didn't fly all the way to Sosua and go home with nothing. The remaining plaza spot leases got handed out to other gov't suits and Presidential cronies. Those plaza spots are valuable money makers because of the location and the future condos/Hotel. I'm sure they're long gone.

Comments like "relocation of all members...plazas" is just fluff and BS to keep the beach vendors calm and compliant till it's too late.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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@windeguy
I am waiting for you to address the possibility that the Beach Vendors or the organization organizing and renting to the Beach Vendor could have rights under the legal concept of Adverse Possession.
This legal concept makes many of the assertions you have made like "The Beach Vendors have no rights" dead wrong factually.
But if you were expressing your opinion.
I understand that and respect them.

No one knows if this concept has been explored.
But a case could be made they could indeed have rights.
As far as I know a legal case has not been made in the courts.
But if I am wrong, I am sure someone will let me know.

Someone tell T-Dog to stop reading the thread.
His commentary is not funny and only shows he has nothing of substance to contribute.
 

windeguy

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@windeguy
I am waiting for you to address the possibility that the Beach Vendors or the organization organizing and renting to the Beach Vendor could have rights under the legal concept of Adverse Possession.
This legal concept makes many of the assertions you have made like "The Beach Vendors have no rights" dead wrong factually.
But if you were expressing your opinion.
I understand that and respect them.

No one knows if this concept has been explored.
But a case could be made they could indeed have rights.
As far as I know a legal case has not been made in the courts.
But if I am wrong, I am sure someone will let me know.

Someone tell T-Dog to stop reading the thread.
His commentary is not funny and only shows he has nothing of substance to contribute.
I am sticking with my story that the have NO rights at all. If they explore this concept in the courts, the ONLY people that will win are the LAWYERS.

You come up with something that is not proven to apply, a legal concept, and call what I say dead wrong. OK. Have it your way. I am wrong you are right.
At the end of this, let us see what actually happens, shall we? This is the DR. As some like to say the rules are made to be broken. In this situation, don't you think the association would have thought of this if it were an option? At least you are now done waiting for my response.
 
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