Stealing Power - will they start enforce the laws?

[bienamor]

Sounds like I upset a few of you.

Now now. We all know that stealing is wrong and I do not condone it, but the situation in DR is not exactly a simple one.

I should let you know that I consider myself to be very conservative, and far from a “bleeding heart” type that my previous post may have lead you to believe.

You made reference to “other countries”. Okay, I would like to use the US as an example. There is a large population of Americans that receive free electricity either by subsidies or directly by the USA’s many entitlement programs; public housing is a fine example of this. Poor people receive free electricity by entitlements; Incredible. Do you think for one minute that there would be serenity in the urban centers of the USA if these entitlements were stopped? Do you think that it is even advisable to tell the poor masses that they should not be entitled to electricity because they can’t afford it? I’ll tell you that this is how riots and civil unrests are started.

I see the DR and the US system to be very similar in that the poor receive basic utilities for free, whether it is by stealing or entitlements, to stave off civil unrest. This is Sociology 101.

There are not enough jails or administrative resources to crack down on electricity theft.

Would I like these people to pay for electricity? Yes of course I would. But if they can’t afford it, and the folks in the government won’t give them any, it could be a social experiment “gone wrong”.

I strongly agree with you and Black Dog that it is the government’s function to find a solution for the people. And I agree with Conchman that they eventually will. Surprisingly Collingwood, who usually have very solid posts decided to be hoakey on this one. No Collingwood, you cannot have my address so that poor Dominicans can steal my TV. aranoid:

To really see that problem for what it is we need to look for the root cause. Yes inefficiencies and bureaucracy play a part, but as I have mentioned in other similar posts, the root cause of the problem in DR is the basic cost of refined, end product FUEL. Fuel produces the electricity, and I am sure you have noticed that fuel very expensive here.

Correct as you say via entitlement programs not via stealing the power, this is provided via the government, and fees assessed by the power company to the paying customers in other word PLANNING and taxes.
Condoned stealing and planned entailments are not the same thing big difference you cannot compare the 2. Also in the US and say Canada, you have to have the power as huddling over candles will not keep you warm as -20 that’s why they open the homeless shelters.

This is not necessary done to stave off civil unrest, but as a social benefit, unlike here where it is to stave off social unrest. Not to say social unrest would not happen but as its already been taken care of via planning, they don’t have to worry about it.

The major theft problem is not the poor resident anyway according to studies done here it is large companies.

They (Government) could issue cards with the new meters, which would replace the stealing, This would be much like the Bono program for cooking gas. As it is now I know some people in some barrios pay a flat 200rd per month, there is not a meter in the barrio.

Every one already knows the root cause. but nobody wants to effect the cure.

 

[cobraboy]

I consider the "theft" of power to be a semi socvial program where those who can (and do) pay subsidize those who can't and won't.

There aren't enough tires to burn if the state really cracked down on electric theft.

Besides, I haven't heard one politician say he'd get rid of theft if elected.

 

[cobraboy]

Every one already knows the root cause. but nobody wants to effect the cure.

That's because, like so many other economic problems, nobody wants to be responsible for or endure the pain of actually "fixing" it...

 

[TOOBER_SDQ]

Condoned stealing and planned entailments are not the same thing big difference you cannot compare the 2. .

I can compare them as they satisfy the same objective. :ermm:

 

[TOOBER_SDQ]

I consider the "theft" of power to be a semi socvial program where those who can (and do) pay subsidize those who can't and won't.

There aren't enough tires to burn if the state really cracked down on electric theft.

Besides, I haven't heard one politician say he'd get rid of theft if elected.

Cobraboy, you're right on the money.

The problem is that the cost of electricity is way too high. It's not even feasable for the "Average Joe".

 

[Adrian Bye]

the problem is that the rest of the country has to deal with unreliable electricity which has a massive cost both in terms of redundancy required by businesses and damage to everyone's electronics from the constant outages.

this is absolutely unacceptable as it pushes a massive cost on the entire country. i wouldn't be surprised if the DR's GDP increased 10% if rock solid reliable electricity was implemented. that would enable the poor to receive true subsidies & free electricity.

this has been a problem for 20+ years and its time it was solved.

 

[TOOBER_SDQ]

the problem is that the rest of the country has to deal with unreliable electricity which has a massive cost both in terms of redundancy required by businesses and damage to everyone's electronics from the constant outages.

this is absolutely unacceptable as it pushes a massive cost on the entire country. i wouldn't be surprised if the DR's GDP increased 10% if rock solid reliable electricity was implemented. that would enable the poor to receive true subsidies & free electricity.

this has been a problem for 20+ years and its time it was solved.

We knew what we were getting into..... and we are free to leave at any time.....

 

[donP]

Not much left

..... and we are free to leave at any time.....

If all left who could, from whom would they be able to steal? :ermm:

donP

 

[cobraboy]

the problem is that the rest of the country has to deal with unreliable electricity which has a massive cost both in terms of redundancy required by businesses and damage to everyone's electronics from the constant outages.

this is absolutely unacceptable as it pushes a massive cost on the entire country. i wouldn't be surprised if the DR's GDP increased 10% if rock solid reliable electricity was implemented. that would enable the poor to receive true subsidies & free electricity.

this has been a problem for 20+ years and its time it was solved.

The people most upset about it are foreigners.

Businesses already have backup gensets and are factored into their cost of business.

Inverters are everywhere.

Folks here live on a fraction of the energy First Worlders do, and a fraction of (IMO) what the majority of expats do.

Simply put, there isn't the collective political will to change the situation. The average Jose doesn't see much of a payoff. He's OK with it even though he may complain.

Now if you shut down the bars early, raise the price of Presidente or enforce a serious noise ordinance....well then, Bubba, all hell would break loose.:cheeky:

 

[bienamor]

The people most upset about it are foreigners.

Businesses already have backup gensets and are factored into their cost of business.

Inverters are everywhere.

Folks here live on a fraction of the energy First Worlders do, and a fraction of (IMO) what the majority of expats do.

Simply put, there isn't the collective political will to change the situation. The average Jose doesn't see much of a payoff. He's OK with it even though he may complain.

Now if you shut down the bars early, raise the price of Presidente or enforce a serious noise ordinance....well then, Bubba, all hell would break loose.:cheeky:

Its sad but true.

 

[Adrian Bye]

i am voting with my feet and leaving and the poor electricity contributes to the decision.

the locals don't have experience with reliable electricity so they don't have anything to compare it with. many, many third world countries have more reliable electricity than the DR and they're much further from the continental US.

 

[markbrown]

sorry i am stupid - but i have to ask how do you steal electricity anyway? i mean how is it done does someone steal your power from your house or do they climb up a pole and steal it or something?

 

[engineerfg]

Folks here live on a fraction of the energy First Worlders do, and a fraction of (IMO) what the majority of expats do.

To be honest, I really like this fact that you have pointed out.

makes me wonder if DR represents the 'past' of America where rolling blackouts where a teething problem? or it represents the future where we will have no choice to be more cost conscious. we first worlders sure are energy pigs!

Anyone else notice the distinct lack of incandescent bulbs in this country?

 

[Keith R]

Anyone else notice the distinct lack of incandescent bulbs in this country?

That's more recent (last few years). The government made a big push a couple of years ago to replace all incandescents with CFLs. It was done almost entirely to free up some generation capacity through reduced consumption by lighting.

"Seeing the Light?"

 

[belgiank]

First of all, everybody complains about the cost of electricity here... now, I'm originally from Belgium, and there I paid over 300 $ per month for electricity. Here, I'm using about the same amount, and I'm paying around 75$... seems like a good deal to me... even with the occasional discomfort of a power "failure"...

About stealing electricity... which the topic was about originally :cheeky:, in the first house I rented, I was told by the owner that I would have to pay him a 1000 pesos per month for the electricity (which is not a bad deal at all)... but when I got into an argument with him, it appeared he was stealing the electricity and paying of the guy who reads the meters... so I was cut of... I went to the Edenorte office, explained everything, and got a deal of 480 pesos per month...

Now... to be honest... I was extremely happy with this deal, although it was ridicilous... but am I the one to tell Edenorte they are fools???

The sad thing is that the owner of that house, and several other houses got away with doing this... prob because he used to be the mayor of the town...

I now, in my new house, pay around 3000 pesos per month... and am quite happy to pay this...

The solution for me is quite simple... first crack down on the landlords who steal power, crack down on businesses and fortunate people who steal electricity, review ridiculous contracts (like the one I had...) and then start looking at the poor who steal power for their one or two lightbulbs, and maybe a small fridge if they are so lucky

 

[Berzin]

I think it's high time that those who subsidize the theft of electricity by paying higher bills than they consume should start looking into solar energy.

Surely the Dominican middle and upper-middle classes can begin this movement.

Since the government has shown no interest, will or intellectual capacity to solve this problem, getting off the grid would be the best solution for those who can. The only way to escape this particular form of institutionalized corruption and fiscal ineptitude is to go independent.

Dominicans don't need air conditioning, so that's a plus. Each household can collect and store a reasonable supply of power that will not be prone to outages and surges that damage and destroy appliances.

The mentality seems to be it's OK for those who can pay to pay for those who either can't or won't. Then you have those who CAN pay stealing electricity just because they can get away with it.

Now it all depends on the Dominican business sector-will they take the reigns on this one or just be complacent and reactionary?

Does anyone know where the Dominican entrepreneurs stand on this issue?

I have a friend up in upstate New York who not only makes enough electricity for his house via solar power, but his family usually collects enough of a surplus to sell electricity BACK to the electric company during the summer months.

So if it can be done in the Northeast of all places, it certainly will work in the DR.

 

[cobraboy]

I think it's high time that those who subsidize the theft of electricity by paying higher bills than they consume should start looking into solar energy.

Surely the Dominican middle and upper-middle classes can begin this movement.

Since the government has shown no interest, will or intellectual capacity to solve this problem, getting off the grid would be the best solution for those who can. The only way to escape this particular form of institutionalized corruption and fiscal ineptitude is to go independent.

Dominicans don't need air conditioning, so that's a plus. Each household can collect and store a reasonable supply of power that will not be prone to outages and surges that damage and destroy appliances.

The mentality seems to be it's OK for those who can pay to pay for those who either can't or won't. Then you have those who CAN pay stealing electricity just because they can get away with it.

Now it all depends on the Dominican business sector-will they take the reigns on this one or just be complacent and reactionary?

Does anyone know where the Dominican entrepreneurs stand on this issue?

I have a friend up in upstate New York who not only makes enough electricity for his house via solar power, but his family usually collects enough of a surplus to sell electricity BACK to the electric company during the summer months.

So if it can be done in the Northeast of all places, it certainly will work in the DR.

Problem is the capital cost of the solar system will choke a large dog.

One can buy many years of overpriced electricity and a solid inverter system for the cost of a solar system.

Solar is just not cost effective for all but the mega wealthy to afford.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think it's high time that those who subsidize the theft of electricity by paying higher bills than they consume should start looking into solar energy.

Surely the Dominican middle and upper-middle classes can begin this movement.

Since the government has shown no interest, will or intellectual capacity to solve this problem, getting off the grid would be the best solution for those who can. The only way to escape this particular form of institutionalized corruption and fiscal ineptitude is to go independent.

Dominicans don't need air conditioning, so that's a plus. Each household can collect and store a reasonable supply of power that will not be prone to outages and surges that damage and destroy appliances.

The mentality seems to be it's OK for those who can pay to pay for those who either can't or won't. Then you have those who CAN pay stealing electricity just because they can get away with it.

Now it all depends on the Dominican business sector-will they take the reigns on this one or just be complacent and reactionary?

Does anyone know where the Dominican entrepreneurs stand on this issue?

I have a friend up in upstate New York who not only makes enough electricity for his house via solar power, but his family usually collects enough of a surplus to sell electricity BACK to the electric company during the summer months.

So if it can be done in the Northeast of all places, it certainly will work in the DR.

One of my brother-in-laws uses solar energy exclusively at his home up the mountain in Ocoa. Good sized house, all appliances, everything runs off solar. We've kicked around getting solar panels for our house in Najayo Beach, but since no one lives there year-round it's fairly certain that someone will climb up there and steal them. [as it is now, they sneak over and steal the outdoor light bulbs - switching them with their burned out ones; for awhile we thought they were burning out from surges until we realized they were differently shaped bulbs from what we brought from the US]. We don't have a meter at our house, we pay a flat monthly rate for electricity. The problem is that it's almost always off.

AE

 

[Berzin]

Problem is the capital cost of the solar system will choke a large dog.

One can buy many years of overpriced electricity and a solid inverter system for the cost of a solar system.

Solar is just not cost effective for all but the mega wealthy to afford.

It may be expensive now, but the technology is advancing and more people are buying into it. This is what will drive prices down.

I'm in favor of anything that will break this circle-jerk of institutionalized corruption and greed.

 

[windeguy]

Berzin, I looked into solar ( and wind power) with hope. However, there was no way that a 20 to 30 year payback period along with the size of an installation would make sense for me ( or for the vast majority others). If you provided the details on how someone in upstate NY did it, I am pretty certain their numbers would be even more prohibitive based upon the insolation in NY. It makes sense for Solar and Wind Power to be done by utilities on a large scale in the areas most suitable for it. At least the DR has some projects under way for this.

To get back to my original post. I really would like to see steps taken against all those stealing power. For those that cannot afford power, then the government has to decide what level of entitlements can be given to these people. I know it is a far fetched concept in the DR that this should be cleaned up and that power can be on 24/7.