Well if that's the Queen's Enlish to throw around stupid so easily I'll stick with the colonial version.
- Thread starter Anastacio
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Stop being so sensitive Dominicans, it's STUPID!
Well if that's the Queen's Enlish to throw around stupid so easily I'll stick with the colonial version.
Haha, I am from the Scottish borders, some might say English is therefore not my first language, well Americans occasionally have trouble understanding me completely after a few drinks.
Chip, I think you need to chill out a bit on all things Dominican related, the preaching has gone from annoying to just plain funny, I do enjoy your posts though so look forward to reading more advice to help us through our lives out here. Respect!!:cheeky:
It's a process. Only very few of these variations are listed in a handbook though - it's something you pick up and take note of as you go along. You can't learn them in advance.
my thinking is that only a stupid person will be offended for calling them stupid. why would someone intelligent be moved by this at all?
i normally use "estupido" talking about inanimate objects or claro/edenorte (i actually have called them worse). when i talk to dominicans i just say "por amor de dios! no!" plus i make a face that says more than a thousand words.
i normally use "estupido" talking about inanimate objects or claro/edenorte (i actually have called them worse). when i talk to dominicans i just say "por amor de dios! no!" plus i make a face that says more than a thousand words.
I don't see where my advice on using "stupid" is any different from anybody else post here - you just don't do it unless you mean to offend someone.
I agree that you can't learn these things in advance. But it really doesn't have to be a complex process. I was taught quite a few cultural nuances by my spanish teacher as part of the immersion course. And sometimes, it can even be as simple as asking someone about them. I've found most dominicans to be quite willing to help you understand their culture. But you have to make more than a half-hearted effort to learn because as you've stated, this info is rarely in a handbook.
In any case, after further consideration, I've come to the conclusion that the OP's problem with insulting the locals has very little to do with learning spanish, the local version of it, or anything cultural at all. As his behavior would have been considered insulting in any number of cultures.
Vince.
Regarding "stupid," it's a word I only used in Dominican company once, never again. Chiri is right, it appears to be a cultural sensitivity, not a linguistic issue. Still after all these years not sure exactly why.
Dominicans very often use "vaina" and quite often indirectly, as in "????que es esta vaina?!!!" as if this junk appeared on its own and nobody owns it, even though they're really commenting on something you did or said...
I've heard tonto a few times used in reference to stupid acts or statements, but that can be seen as harsh by many too.
I kinda like the diplomatic way my suegra goes about it. She'll quip: hay que usar la material gris. LOL
The guapo thing also drove me crazy when I first moved to the DR. Were people trying to say I was handsome or angry? or both? LOL
Another that caused me much confusion when I moved to the DR was the constant use of "chulo." In some parts of Latin America, this still means something akin to pimp. I am still reluctant to use it, but maybe that's just my age showing...
Dominicans very often use "vaina" and quite often indirectly, as in "????que es esta vaina?!!!" as if this junk appeared on its own and nobody owns it, even though they're really commenting on something you did or said...
I've heard tonto a few times used in reference to stupid acts or statements, but that can be seen as harsh by many too.
I kinda like the diplomatic way my suegra goes about it. She'll quip: hay que usar la material gris. LOL
The guapo thing also drove me crazy when I first moved to the DR. Were people trying to say I was handsome or angry? or both? LOL
Another that caused me much confusion when I moved to the DR was the constant use of "chulo." In some parts of Latin America, this still means something akin to pimp. I am still reluctant to use it, but maybe that's just my age showing...
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My Behaviour?? hahaha, WTF. I suppose I haven't had a day on the rack for a while, come on then, choose your tool and make me scream:bunny::bunny::bunny:
Where I was trying to direct the thread, but failed, knowing why the use of this word was so much more offensive than others. I suppose I'll have to be content with 'you just don't use it' as people have pointed out.
By the way (to those that asked or used examples), no I'm not offended by being called names when not toned with offence, I find it reasurring that someone feels comfortable enough to use it around me and I would certainly never take it to heart, in any instance.
You asked for it......
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/4996125359/" title="The Rack by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4996125359_995b6f5eb3.jpg" width="377" height="500" alt="The Rack" /></a>
Enjoy........lol...hahaha..........:cheeky:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/4996125359/" title="The Rack by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4996125359_995b6f5eb3.jpg" width="377" height="500" alt="The Rack" /></a>
Enjoy........lol...hahaha..........:cheeky:
You're right. Perhaps I should have said that your choice of words would have been considered insulting in many cultures. Not just dominican.
Listen, let me offer you something I've learned in my study of both the spanish language, and dominican culture. And I hope it helps. As stated, I learned most of my spanish by taking an immersion course in Santiago. My instructor was very helpful in teaching me not only basic spanish, but local nuances as well. As a result of this instruction, one of the most frequently used words in my spanish vocabulary is "permisso" (excuse me).
You see, it was impressed upon me that when speaking with strangers, Dominicans prefer a polite (though not overly formal) approach, as opposed to brash over-familiarity (which seems to be your problem). And in this, dominicans are pretty similar to most folks I grew up around in the southern and southwestern U.S. And that's why my spanish instructor didn't have to tell me that going around calling dominicans that you don't know "stupid" won't be received very well.
Like I said, I hope this helps.
Vince.
Vince makes a very good point. When I first traveled to the DR with my wife 24 years ago (God it seems strange saying it's been that long!) she counseled always being unfailingly polite when I speak with Dominicans. The older generation will think you're well-educated, well-cultured and well-raised, the younger generation might think you're quaint, but no one will fault you for it, she said. And so far, it has proven to be extremely good advice.
if i do want to offend someone wi will not stop at "stupid" for sure...
but as i said, normally i make it clear for a stupid i think he/she is stupid without using a word. i could not care less if i offend a fool.
I suspect that it's not just a language issue. But, it may be a communication, or cultural, issue.
For example, I know that when I have used one of the Asian languages with a native speaker and while in that Asian country (still working on my Spanish), I ALWAYS had to be careful with a concept called "face". It's a cultural thing there, and it is something like an "extreme" need to be shown "respect". We don't have that same sensibility in the western world. We seem not to be bothered by such behavior when it's aimed at us. (For proof, just read some of the threads on DR1.) But, in some of those places, in Asia, using the wrong words could cause a serious impact on your health.
However, it has been my observation (YMMV) that in many OTHER places, there is a heightened need to be shown respect -- more so than in many of the places we come from, and certainly more than what we sometimes show each other. In some cultures, that "respect" may be the only valuable possession that they feel they have had. The need for respect may then become part of the culture. And, if you - the speaker - is perceived to have more than someone, what you say may have an even bigger impact on them.
Just knowing the words in a language, but assuming that we can "communicate" as we do back home may never be enough. In fact, even back home, we may sometimes run into someone who seems to be "overly sensitive" to what we said. And we wonder why.
That's why people (expats) who live here, and learn about the culture, have such a huge advantage over those of us who do not. And why they will feel safer and more at home. They are learning what it takes to be part of that culture, not just what it takes to communicate. So when someone like Chip says "I don't see where my advice on using "stupid" is any different from anybody else post here - you just don't do it unless you mean to offend someone.", he may just know something that we don't.
For example, I know that when I have used one of the Asian languages with a native speaker and while in that Asian country (still working on my Spanish), I ALWAYS had to be careful with a concept called "face". It's a cultural thing there, and it is something like an "extreme" need to be shown "respect". We don't have that same sensibility in the western world. We seem not to be bothered by such behavior when it's aimed at us. (For proof, just read some of the threads on DR1.) But, in some of those places, in Asia, using the wrong words could cause a serious impact on your health.
However, it has been my observation (YMMV) that in many OTHER places, there is a heightened need to be shown respect -- more so than in many of the places we come from, and certainly more than what we sometimes show each other. In some cultures, that "respect" may be the only valuable possession that they feel they have had. The need for respect may then become part of the culture. And, if you - the speaker - is perceived to have more than someone, what you say may have an even bigger impact on them.
Just knowing the words in a language, but assuming that we can "communicate" as we do back home may never be enough. In fact, even back home, we may sometimes run into someone who seems to be "overly sensitive" to what we said. And we wonder why.
That's why people (expats) who live here, and learn about the culture, have such a huge advantage over those of us who do not. And why they will feel safer and more at home. They are learning what it takes to be part of that culture, not just what it takes to communicate. So when someone like Chip says "I don't see where my advice on using "stupid" is any different from anybody else post here - you just don't do it unless you mean to offend someone.", he may just know something that we don't.
The word "estupido" is an insult in Dominican Spanish, one not to be paired to the same "stupid" used in English.
How bad is it? Think that "estupido" in Dominican Spanish is like saying "ignorant" in US English to somebody's face!
Estupido is basically "ignorant" in USA English, not the "Stupid" one thinks it must match 100% word to word. A good match to "Stupid" meant in Dominican Spanish would be calling something or someone an "airhead" or "tonto(a)".
For meanings sake, "ignorant" in USA English is a strong word to say to anybody casually.
Just because they look about the same, the meaning is not!
How bad is it? Think that "estupido" in Dominican Spanish is like saying "ignorant" in US English to somebody's face!
Estupido is basically "ignorant" in USA English, not the "Stupid" one thinks it must match 100% word to word. A good match to "Stupid" meant in Dominican Spanish would be calling something or someone an "airhead" or "tonto(a)".
For meanings sake, "ignorant" in USA English is a strong word to say to anybody casually.
Just because they look about the same, the meaning is not!
Funny, I never thought ignorant was that bad of a word. But, then again, I do not use it as much.
Pichardo I'm talking about your translation of "estupido" into English. "Ignorant" is not a correct translation because it is rarely used.