LOL! Hugo won't be scaring many folks with those. Maybe Ghana or Zimbabwe.
That's funny...
- Thread starter Robert
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Super Tucano Air Fighters, Any Good?
That's funny...
My grapevine has been "consulting" on chasing drug runners for 15 years, in the USA and throughout Latin America.
I was very surprised at the level of technology used by drug runners, from special props, modified airframes, advanced avionics, night vision and how they don't bat an eyelid at burning a US$1.5-2 million + aircraft on just about every run.
What are the makes/models of the aircraft, and I can tell you if they are full of crap.
Special props and modified airframes won't make a gazelle out of a pig. Night vision is available mail order, even the really good stuff. Avionics are everywhere, except for the proprietary military stuff, and that doesn't go missing.
The Coast Guard had a big base where I had my FBO/Pilot Training Center, and we used to do flight reviews for the CG pilots who actually chased drug planes is Dessault Falcon bizjets. I've spent a ton of time with the pilots that would go after those aircraft. Not once did I ever hear about the advanced aircraft technology the druggies used. Macho 'Nads flying at 200', at night, in bad weather? Yep. Aircraft outperforming them, even flying C-130s? Never.
There is no such thing as some magic aircraft that goes like stink with some prop and airframe modifications. PLUS they have to haul a load and a bunch of fuel, compounding the physics/aerodynamic challenges.
Besides, the ST can carry Sidewinders. All they'd have to do is get within 10 miles.
Full of crap? How many Governments have you consulted to on drug runners? WOW, that many!! I'll pass on your credentials
When and if I get the chance, I'll ask about the planes.
I'm not a pilot and a lot of the back and forth tech stuff goes under my radar, no pun intended
As of right now, the Dominican's will not be shooting down anyone.
So I guess the Sidewinder's at US$80,000+ per pop will not be an issue.
That is unless someone can make some money on the side.
gee I hope they have good identification equipment before they loose a Sidewainder from so far away!!!! ha ha ha
the drug dealers biigest trump card is flying dumb under the radar.....
and not careing if one doesnt get through once in a while.
bad bad bob
None, but I know folks who do it for a living with the Coast Guard. My company trained many military pilots, since the military hasn't been in the basic pilot training and currency checks for years. A bunch of those pilots are Coasties doing the interdiction in FL and the Gulf Coast.Full of crap? How many Governments have you consulted to on drug runners? WOW, that many!! I'll pass on your credentials
And I have an extensive background in aviation and as a pilot. Others here do also.
The kind of planes your experts tell you the druggies fly will tell me about everything.
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A dark plane flying low at night with no transponder and no radio communication would be a "dead" give away.
Not saying the DR will buy sidewinders, but the ST is a platform that can carry them. And 320kts is almost 370 mph. For a non-jet, that's going very fast.
Super Tucano Bares Fangs for Export
Robert, night vision goggles and IR radar detection has been around for YEARS. It's not new stuff, and it's not particularly expensive technology to have in military aircraft..
some of those drugs planes have Klingon cloaking devices. On a more serious note, approximately 40% of these drug flights are originating in Venezuela- is there some collusion on the part of the government there or does Chavez not have as tight a control of that country as many state.
Big question who is flying those birds ?
we think so backwards when it come to that Drugs issue.
First the excuse not radar now we got one problem not fixed.
now the war jets.
c'mon, everytime the talks about drugs in the DR news they talk about kilos
they should clean the entire authorities who enforce the law.
What happen with the kilos ? what happen to the money? no ones know.
There is money for those aircraft but not money to finish the Puerto Plata airport renovations, or at least the electricity problem. that instead they should buy the wind mills to fix the electricity issues.
This is normal in DR..... what can you expect!
we think so backwards when it come to that Drugs issue.
First the excuse not radar now we got one problem not fixed.
now the war jets.
c'mon, everytime the talks about drugs in the DR news they talk about kilos
they should clean the entire authorities who enforce the law.
What happen with the kilos ? what happen to the money? no ones know.
There is money for those aircraft but not money to finish the Puerto Plata airport renovations, or at least the electricity problem. that instead they should buy the wind mills to fix the electricity issues.
This is normal in DR..... what can you expect!
According to Venezuelan official sources, after throwing out the DEA earlier this year, drug interdiction has increased four-fold, including over 20 tons of cocaine so far, plus the delivery of 10 notorious drug trafickers wanted by US courts. Also, Venezuela and Brasil recently got together to purchase Chinese made radars for their common Amazon border, after being denied this equipment by the US government.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
But... As I was told.
The Tucano's forward looking IR is used more for navigation than detection and has a limited range.
Night vision allows you to fly at night and see what your actually doing.
I doesn't allow you to see an aircraft that's flying lower and behind you.
Is it a good aircraft? I couldn't tell you.
What I do know, bearing in mind I'm clueless about all this. Is that in the particular case of the DR, people "in the know", those that actually make their living out of this business, said the money should be spent in other areas. Areas that would have had a "real" impact on slowing down the smugglers.
Unfortunately good old fashioned "graft" and I'm sure other vested interests won the day.
Anyone interested in working out how much graft can compare the price of the DR's SuperTucanos with those of Chile & Colombia.
El Nacional, la voz de todos
Is tucano the Portuguese for toucan i.e. a bird with a big bill............:cheeky:
El Nacional, la voz de todos
Is tucano the Portuguese for toucan i.e. a bird with a big bill............:cheeky:
Most of the information you all posted is valid (With exception of the venerable P-3 Orion being a "Maritime Patrol" aircraft. she started her career as a replacement for the P-2 Neptune but sure has evolved into one of the premier 'Eyes in the Sky" of today, check with the Serbs JNA, they know all too well the look down shoot down and over the horizon capabilities of the 3 series of aircraft
On the other hand, unless the US cooperate in lending one for surveillance, they are not for sale (the E series) Cobra got the tech specs better than I can, the Tucano is more than capable for it's mission, BUT! And a big but Give me a Piper Cub and an AK 47 and I will interdict and disable anything the druggies are using, IF I have airborne surveillance vectoring me for a head on meeting with the runner
No matter the speed of the aircraft (Unless you can afford a wing of Raptors, or such, you are not going to catch drug runners by chasing them, by the time you get the angle on the dangle from chase platform based RADAR it is way too late and you will be playing catch up all day
The Tucano has unbelievable loiter time, great pursuit, easy maintenance and FLIR which is very effective in picking out ground target sand if you get lucky, a drug runner in front of you. The Tucanos can loiter at 10000 and develop huge amounts energy in angling toward a suspected runner.
Its ALL in the surveillance, the USA can't even grab runners busting our ADIZ with most sophisticated stuff in the world, without a dedicated Airborne bird it's a guessing game
The price of the Tucano seems out of line, but that could be a price for not only the planes, but engines years of maintenance and ongoing upgrades Someone mentioned an F 16? If the druggies are flying Vipers, you have more problems than you will ever solve Robert, in a nutshell; the Tucanos are excellent for this purpose, the pricing I have no idea about
On the other hand, unless the US cooperate in lending one for surveillance, they are not for sale (the E series) Cobra got the tech specs better than I can, the Tucano is more than capable for it's mission, BUT! And a big but Give me a Piper Cub and an AK 47 and I will interdict and disable anything the druggies are using, IF I have airborne surveillance vectoring me for a head on meeting with the runner
No matter the speed of the aircraft (Unless you can afford a wing of Raptors, or such, you are not going to catch drug runners by chasing them, by the time you get the angle on the dangle from chase platform based RADAR it is way too late and you will be playing catch up all day
The Tucano has unbelievable loiter time, great pursuit, easy maintenance and FLIR which is very effective in picking out ground target sand if you get lucky, a drug runner in front of you. The Tucanos can loiter at 10000 and develop huge amounts energy in angling toward a suspected runner.
Its ALL in the surveillance, the USA can't even grab runners busting our ADIZ with most sophisticated stuff in the world, without a dedicated Airborne bird it's a guessing game
The price of the Tucano seems out of line, but that could be a price for not only the planes, but engines years of maintenance and ongoing upgrades Someone mentioned an F 16? If the druggies are flying Vipers, you have more problems than you will ever solve Robert, in a nutshell; the Tucanos are excellent for this purpose, the pricing I have no idea about
because that would eliminate the next deal 2 or 3 years from now that says we need better planes,so they get paid twice,,,maybe 3 times.The U.S. govy works the same way
QUOTE=Chirimoya;697234]Let's say we all take it as given that the primary motivation behind the deal was the quick buck, but why couldn't they at least get a worthwhile aircraft while they were at it?[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=Chirimoya;697234]Let's say we all take it as given that the primary motivation behind the deal was the quick buck, but why couldn't they at least get a worthwhile aircraft while they were at it?[/QUOTE]
Zen Koan
I wonder how many drug sniffing canines can be bought for the cost of one SuperTucano? Here's a picture that made today's headlines. It's an interdiction of 300 kgs of cocaine by Venezuelan authorities with the help of canines, all hidden inside coconuts ready for export.
I wonder how many drug sniffing canines can be bought for the cost of one SuperTucano? Here's a picture that made today's headlines. It's an interdiction of 300 kgs of cocaine by Venezuelan authorities with the help of canines, all hidden inside coconuts ready for export.
There is also the economy of scale issue - Buying a small number of aircraft will cost your more per aircraft than a larger amount. 25 each for Chile and Colombia- versus 12 for the DR.
Correct answer.
When I read that Tucanos will be cheaper for Chile and Colombia the first thing I looked upon in the report was quantity, and it fact it is a 100% increase in quantity per country compared to the DR. Sometimes national papers makes a big foos out of nothing, specially when the director of that newspaper is known to be a high ranking dirigente of an opposition party.