The Dominican Constitution; ..Amending it

aegap

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Rick Snyder said:
Constitution of 2004;

ART. 49.-El Poder Ejecutivo se ejerce por el Presidente de la Rep?blica, quien ser? elegido cada cuatro a?os por voto directo. El Presidente de la Rep?blica podr? optar por un segundo y ?nico per?odo constitucional consecutivo, no pudiendo postularse jam?s al mismo cargo, ni a la Vicepresidencia de la Rep?blica.

According to what I quote above, it seems Leonel can run for re-election without any need for another amendment to the Constitution
 

RonS

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This is fascinating. And from the perspective of an attorney from the United States, it really underscores the importance of understanding US Constitutional history and how fortunate we are to have had this 219 year experiment in human self governance. Watching the Dominican political process as it finds it's way through the thicket of all the inevitable challenges any society must face, is fascinating, and I give the Dominican people kudos for what they are doing.

I know that this is not in keeping with the OP's original question here, but, I am struck by the influence of the Cardinal in this process. Is the concept of the separation of church and state a reality in the DR?
 

Rick Snyder

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RonS,
The answer to your question concerning church and state in NO!

As a classical example the education system here has religion as a mandantory subject.

Rick
 

Mirador

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RonS said:
...and I give the Dominican people kudos for what they are doing....QUOTE]

The Dominican people have had nothing to do with it.... save your kudos to the economic/political elite who plundered and keep plundering this country since El Jefe was assassinate 45 years ago today...

...
 

RonS

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Thanks for the additional info. Again, it reflects the evolution of a constitutionally based society. Clearly, the DR has a long way to go. But, notwithstanding all the imperfections, there is a consistent theme of balancing powers and enshrining individual liberty.

I understand and share your concern for the masses, Mirador, and the apparent exclusivity of this process for the elite. It should not be forgotten, however, that 'We the people of the United States' originally were white male elite property holders, and that it took years of internal and external strife before 'We the people' became as inclusive as we are today. I think that the result of the last election in the DR reveals a lot about how the people of the DR have grown in this regard. Even if some were given 'incentives' to support PLD candidates, I sense that they approve of the current President and want to give him the legislative support he needs to succeed. If Leonel is in fact successful at implementing his vision for the DR before the end of his first term, I would not be surprised if he chooses not to run for the second consecutive term which the constitution appears to permit. He would certainly be in a strong position then, to pursue more interesting and more lucrative alternatives.
 

monster

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RonS said:
If Leonel is in fact successful at implementing his vision for the DR before the end of his first term, I would not be surprised if he chooses not to run for the second consecutive term which the constitution appears to permit....

You're reaching....Leonel will definitely run for reelection.
 

Rick Snyder

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RonS,
If I may I would like to give a description of the situation here in the DR as to the assimilation of its people to a democratically run government and the problems faced in their desire to obtain a way of life that is better than that which they presently have.

The history of the DR is filled with its overabundance of dictatorships and the ruling by the wealthy. Throughout its history the average Dominican, who have always been in the majority, has always been the receiver of that which the rulers wished. Having never known anything other then that which has been offered has caused them to obtain an outlook of fatalism with the belief that things can’t be changed and therefore they live life the way it is and to enjoy that which they have. The preponderance of this fatalistic outlook has had a corollary effect on their failure to contemplate anything that relates to the future be it in saving, education or their lack of involvement. I equate this to the way that I believe the black Americans felt until there eventual proclamation for civil rights.

As has been shown in this thread the numerous constitutions that have been engineered and implemented within the DR have been orchestrated to serve those in power. Not having the availability to read a DR constitution prior to 1994 I cannot ascertain when the change to a more democratically oriented document was written but I would believe that the one written in 1964 is the one that outlined those freedoms and rights that are evidenced by many democracies today. The fact that 1964 was when the DR supposedly changed to a democracy adds credence to this theory.

Those of us that are familiar with a democracy and the rights and freedoms that are associated with same are in a position of acceptance as to how things should be. We also know the importance of civil involvement in the operation of a democracy. The average Dominican on the other hand has none of this knowledge and as any matters relating to what a democracy encompasses is not taught to any students the possibility or probability of them not learning that which must be learned is augmented. This arduous state that the average Dominican finds himself in only increases his fatalistic outlook on life.

Due to the interest and observations of other countries the DR is forced to hold elections that have the equivalence of being fair and democratic. As it is the Dominicans holding these elections it is their vote that will determine who will win or lose. Until such a time as the Dominicans learn the importance of their involvement in politics and the power that the average Dominican holds nothing will change.

It is interesting to note that out of the eligible voters in this country over 50% are female. As the eligible voter turnout rate is about 58% just think what a little organization of the female populace would induce in any election here.

Rick
 

RonS

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That's a really great and thoughtful analysis, Rick! Over the last six years I have visited the DR twice a year and I can attest to what prior to reading your post was to me an unfathomable lack of empowerment amongst the Dominicans that I encountered. On each visit I have inquired as to the state of the current political situation and each time the response was less than lack luster. Your post clarifies for me why that is. DR1 regulars have often commented about the absolute necessity of an improved system of education and this situation truly does underscore that imperative. The thread here dealing with whether the DR is a matriarchial or patriarchial society points out the large number of DR households run by women and the large number of women who are taking advantage of the educational system, as weak as it may now be. The difficulty I see is that in the time that it takes for the masses to become educated and empowered to assert themselves politically, much mischief can take place. The old warning that power corrupts, and that absolute power corrupts absolutely, comes quickly to my mind in this context. There certainly appears to be evidence of that in DR political history.
 

Rick Snyder

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Leonel is visiting with the president of Taiwan according to the news and the discussion of constitutions has been mentioned. This is a country that in 1996 held its first free and fair election similar to here in the DR.

After reading the Taiwanese constitution I see a number of items that should be incorporated into the Dominican constitution;

Article 85 – “Public employees shall be selected through a system of open, competitive examination. Provincial and area quotas shall be fixed and examinations shall be held in different areas. No person shall be appointed to a public office unless he has successfully passed such an examination.”

Article 108 – “(1) The Central Government shall be competent to legislate and execute the following matters, which, however, may also be delegated to the provincial or county government to execute:” subparagraph 17 “The police system.”

Article 109 – “(1) The Provincial Government shall be competent to legislate and execute the following matters, which, however, may also be delegated to the county governments to execute:” subparagraph 10 “Provincial police administration.’

Article 110 – “(1) The county government shall be competent to legislate and execute the following matters:” subparagraph 9 “County police administration.”

Article 133 – “A person duly elected may be recalled by his constituency in accordance with law.”


There are more examples but these were the ones that I considered to be of great importance for consideration.

Rick

Edited to add;

http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/tw00000_.html
 
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Texas Bill

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Rick:

While I agre with your references to the Taiwanese Constitution, I would hasten to add that such diversification of power from the Central Government will not be included in the "Reformed Constitution". The previous and preset political atmosphere will not allow this to happen, much to my regret.
As to "referendum", well put yourself in the place of those currently and previously in power. Do you really think they will give consideration to anything that will/could divest them of the power they acquire by being elected for a given period of time; to act as they have in the past and to be subjected to the foibles of public opinion? I think not. They would be placing themselves in an untenable position by allowing such as "referendum" to be "the law of the land". None of them would ever be able to complete their elected term of office under those conditions. They would be recalled within the first 6 months of their tenure by an irate constituency.
Remember, the DR has only had a "democratic" form of government for the last 40 some odd years if one takes the 1964 Constitution as a base. The US has not given the common man the franchise until the 1840's, or there-abouts, under Jackson, if I recall correctly. And it wasn't til the 1890's that the Civil Service was removed from nepotism and cronyism into todays Civil Service. I know you're aware of all this; just a trigger to remind you that it was almost 100 years of development before we had today's government in it's present form. And it is still changing. Since we have a much better educated constituency than that of the DR, I would assume (???) that it will take the DR many more years before we see a government that truly responds to the needs of it's people and that will depend on the political and ethical progress made towards that end.
Don't really mean to be so negative, just realistic.

Texas Bill
 

rtejeda

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:bunny: I am not at all surprise about the re-election issue, the PLD is a power hungry organization. The PLD is not what Juan Bosch intended the PLD to be.

Leonel is the new Dominican's "Balaguer", (un nuevo munequito de paper) thats why Balaguer betrayed his vice president, Jacinto Peynado, to put Leonel in power, as his replacement.

Thus re-election is for certain, a sure thing.
 

Rick Snyder

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Texas Bill,

I understand what you are saying and there is a lot of truth in what you say concerning the disposition of the Dominicans in power.

As you said I do know the history of the US and it is because of that history and the history of other democracies that the DR, those that have visions of a better system, can borrow that which has proven through time to work the best.

As constitutional reform seems to be in the process to start in July then I, with much hope and desire, expect that the Dominicans will do the right thing. Of course the makeup of this reform commission along with the availability of the general public to partake in the discussions and recommendations will have a lot to do with the final outcome.

There are a large number of intelligent Dominicans that have traveled and lived in other countries and therefore have a working knowledge of how some things operate differently then here. The president is a prime example of that and I believe that is the main reason he is doing so well. He has been well schooled and his life in the US helps in his running this country.

On 16 Aug I expect the rhetoric coming from the government to change drastically. I honestly believe that Leonel wants positive change to take place and if he can convince his party, or at least a majority of them, to do the right thing then there is a chance that the DR can come about very quickly instead of going through a long and drawn out process. Talks of constitutional reform and having a majority in both houses are two huge and positive steps to insure change comes about.

What I find interesting is that I haven’t heard any ideas emanating from the office of the president on those aspects of the constitution that are desired for change. With such a notification then the people could better judge if the government’s interest is in fact for the populace as a whole. Also interesting is the fact that the media continues to fail to ask the right question in almost all their reporting of the news.

I guess we will just have to wait till 16 August to see.

Rick

Rtejeda,

I don’t know if I’m thrilled or disappointed that you are still around.

One thing I will say is that I, and possibly others, am getting tired of all your negativism. There are certain facts that you must take into consideration concerning the present situation;
1. The president is of the PLD party.
2. Both houses are a majority of the PLD party.
3. This can’t be changed till 2008 and 2010 respectively.

Having said that then you can try to help them change things to the better or you can continue to try to get that boat of yours upstream without the advantage of a motor or paddles. You can cry all you want and sit there in your comfortable home in the USA with your thumb up you’re a$$ or you can get involved.

Edited to correct grammar
 

Texas Bill

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I have to agree with Rick about rtejeda----

In that he, tejeda, seems to be focused on the negative aspects of the political arena. Maybe that is just the way that Dominican politicians do things instead of offering positive responsss to the questions and issues at hand.
Like Hitler's Goebels, if you say something often enough and forcefully enough it will eventually become the truth in uninformed minds.
In all the election rhetoric here in the DR, I have never seen nor heard politicians offer a positive solution to anything. Frankly, I don't know if they have positive thinking in their vocabulary.
many promises are made during campaigns, but they, with few exceptions, prove to be a lot of empty rhetoric designed to appeal emotionally to an uneducated, uninformed medium. Rtejada's commentaries merely reinforce that opinion. he has offered nothing new and I doubt he has a plan of action or an agenda which he follows. He's a "wannabe" individual with visions of granduer about himself.
Remember this, rtejeda, "Vanity is a shallow stream, whereas Pride is a deep ocean". Which do you embface???
Methinks "Vanity and Machimo".

Lets face it, pal, you're outa your league on DR1. Too many people much smarter than you, little boy.

Texas Bill
 

aegap

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Texas bill said:
As to "referendum", well put yourself in the place of those currently and previously in power. Do you really think they will give consideration to anything that will/could divest them of the power they acquire by being elected for a given period of time; to act as they have in the past and to be subjected to the foibles of public opinion? I think not. They would be placing themselves in an untenable position by allowing such as "referendum" to be "the law of the land". None of them would ever be able to complete their elected term of office under those conditions. They would be recalled within the first 6 months of their tenure by an irate constituency.
I believe I read multiple quotes of Leonel stating that adding a recall referendum to the constitution is one of his goal.

edited to add: here it is one of those occasions,

SANTO DOMINGO.- El presidente Leonel Fernández sugirió anoche que una reforma a la Constitución de la República deberá incluir la figura del plebiscito o el referéndum revocatorio de las autoridades electas democráticamente, incluyendo al propio mandatario, los legisladores y síndicos...

...

today's DR1,

Democratic revolution
President Leonel Fernandez said yesterday that during the next two years the Dominican Republic would experience a "democratic revolution" that will implement all the institutional reforms that will help consolidate progress, as reported by Hoy newspaper. The PLD majority in Congress and municipalities will be used to develop a "democratic policy" which will include reforms to the constitution, the Judiciary, electoral and political party systems, as well as the economic and social policies. He added that the country needs a General Electricity Law, to modernize and reform the state, and especially institutions that have to do with public finances, promoting innovative reforms in health and education, as well as other initiatives in favor of small and medium businesses. "All that has to be done in the next two years", said Fernandez, speaking during a meeting with Taiwanese President Chen Shui-Bian at the government palace in Taipei.
 
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NALs

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Mirador said:
RonS said:
...and I give the Dominican people kudos for what they are doing....QUOTE]

The Dominican people have had nothing to do with it.... save your kudos to the economic/political elite who plundered and keep plundering this country since El Jefe was assassinate 45 years ago today...

...
In fact, the Dominican economic/political elite has "plundered" the country for so long, that in the process all the following social-economic indicators have improved:

  1. Per capita income
  2. Infant Mortality
  3. Life expectancy
  4. Economic growth and job creation
  5. Trade
  6. Mortality rate

These are only a few of the many improvements the country has witnessed since the 1960s.

It's funny, because I thought "plundering" of national resources would lead to deterioration of those qualities, NOT an improvement. ;) :surprised

-NALs
 

Rick Snyder

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Aegap,

I would appreciate it if you could direct me to that quote if you should find it again. As I said, I haven’t seen any specifics as to what he would like to see. Today in Dominican Today here Leonel once again talks of the constitutional reform with no specifics.

Rick

Edited to add;

Sorry Aegap didn't see your edit till after the fact. Thank you for the link.
 

Rick Snyder

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Nal’s,

Both you and Mirador are talking in circles. Mirador was not saying that the Dominican economic/political elite have destroyed the DR only that, if I’m interpreting correctly, they aren’t helping the situation to the benefit of the whole populace and you know this to be a fact.

As you are part of this Dominican economic/political elite then I will always expect you to be the first to come to their, your, defense when ever any aspersions are cast upon them.

My post #29 third paragraph explains the history of the economic/political elite on this country. Everything that has been done by them has been for them and them only. History knows this, I know this and Leonel knows this. I think Leonel has the desire to take this controlling power away from those of your kind so that when something is done in this country it will have a positive effect on all the people here and not just for those in your sphere.

Rick

Please don't try to post any statistics to me as there isn't much truth to them. Especially anything published by the DR or any organization that requires statistics from the DR to conduct the analysis.
 

rtejeda

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Si PLD sabes quien es, y pa' donde va: Entonce que??

:ermm: DESDE EL 2004- PA' LOS POBRES- COMER ES PRIMERO Y MAS NA'. :ermm:

Following independence from Haiti in 1844, the country characterized by political instability for almost a century. Dictator Rafael Leonidas Trujillo Molina took power in 1930 and ruled in repressive authoritarian fashion until his assassination in 1961. Brief civil war broke out in 1965 between liberal Constitutionalists--supporters of 1963 constitution promulgated during short-lived presidency of Juan Bosch Gavi?o-- and conservative Loyalist military factions. The conflict aborted by direct military intervention of United States. Subsequent elections brought Trujillo prot?g? Balaguer to presidency, an office he held for twelve years. Balaguer's attempt to nullify 1978 elections thwarted by pressure from Washington, allowing Silvestre Antonio Guzm?n Fernandez of social democratic Dominican Revolutionary Party (Partido Revolucionario Dominicano--PRD) to assume nation's leadership. PRD also won 1982 elections with lawyer Salvador Jorge Blanco as its standard bearer. Both PRD governments were plagued by economic difficulties that forced them to institute austerity measures instead of social reforms they initially advocated. The declining popularity of Jorge's government contributed to Balaguer's election for a fourth term beginning in 1986.

The System of Dominican Politics

The Dominican Republic has a long history of political instability which includes many revolutions, coups d'?tat, barracks revolts, and insurrections, as well as social and political breakdowns. Its last revolution took place in April of 1965. Since then, governments have been systematically elected every four years, and the political climate has been at rest.

Politics in the Dominican Republic functions on a smaller and less formal scale than politics in the United States. Sometimes it seems that everyone in the Dominican Republic who counts politically knows everyone else who counts, because many in this group are also interrelated by blood or marriage. It is a small country, with only one main city. Politics are therefore more like old-fashioned United States county politics. In this context, family and clan networks, patronage systems, close friendships, the bonds of kinship, personal ties, and extended family, ethnic, or other personal connections are as important as the more formal and impersonal institutions of a larger political system.

The Dominican Republic has large-scale organizations, such as political parties, interest groups, professional associations, and bureacratic organizations, but often the informal networks are as important, and therefore, the most difficult for outsiders to penetrate and to understand.

To comprehend Dominican politics, therefore, one must understand first of all the family networks: who is related to whom, and how and what (if anything) these family ties mean. One must also understand the social and the racial hierarchies, who speaks to whom and in what tone of voice, who sees whom socially, and what these social ties imply politically. One must know about past business deals and associations, whether they were clean or "dirty," and what each family or individual knows or thinks about associates. One must understand where the different families "fit" in the Dominican system, whether they are old rich or new rich, their bloodlines, what they share politically, and what pulls them apart. Many of these family and clan associations and rivalries go back for generations.

Family and personalistic associations overlap and interact with the institutions of a more modern political system in all sorts of complex ways. For example, what goes by the name of a political party actually may turn out to be the personalistic apparatus of a single politician or family; or a certain office within the government bureaucracy may turn out to be the private preserve of a single family or clan. In order to understand Dominican politics, one must comprehend these complex overlaps of traditional and modern institutions and practices, of family and clan-based politics, and of modern political organizations.

Dominican Republic: Government And Politics

Government: The Dominican Republic has an elected representative governmental system. Executive was dominant branch. Presidents served four-year terms and could be reelected. Legislature, known formally as Congress of the Republic, consisted of Senate and Chamber of Deputies (House of Representatives). Judicial power exercised by Supreme Court of Justice and by other courts created by 1966 Constitution and by law. All judges chosen by Senate, not by President. Provincial (state) governors appointed by President; municipalities (counties) governed by elected mayors and municipal councils.

International Relations: Diplomatic activities concentrated on Caribbean, Latin America, United States, and Western Europe. Relations with neighboring Haiti traditionally strained, owing to numerous cultural divergences and long history of Dominicans and Haitians meddling in each other's affairs. The most important international relationship is with the United States on which Dominican Republic has political, economic, and strategic dependence.:ermm: (Y QUE DEPENDENCIA, MI COMPADRE!):paranoid:

International Agreements and Membership: Signatory of Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (Rio Treaty) and all major inter-American conventions. Member of United Nations and its specialized agencies, Organization of American States, ACP, CARICOM, International Monetary Fund, Inter-American Development Bank, and other multilateral financial institutions. Also adhered to General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.