- Thread starter samanasuenos
- Start date
The DR and the Recession of 2008
I don't know cobraboy I'm losing grey matter by the minute, but it seems to me the franchisee has to fork over a lot of capital and if it's a foreign company it's going out of the country.
The land is a fixed asset that stays in the DR forever, but it could be foreign-owned and the people find themselves aliens in their own country working in an industry that has a pernicious effect on their culture.
I'm going to leave you with a merengue by Juan Luis Guerra - La costa de la vida!
YouTube - El Costo de La Vida
I thought the DR sought foreign investment. I thought, lacking internal capital that foreign $$$ brings in, creating infrastructure, capital improvements, and jobs was a good thing. I thought folks on this website were somewhat giddy when The Donald came in, tossing his $$$ and reputation around (for one example).
I don't quite understand how this is a bad thing.
Even IF only 18% (or whatever %) of tourist $$$ is kept in country (a figure I'm highly sceptical of), isn't that more that what was in country before? Doesn't that foreign investment bring THAT in?
Are folks saying foreign investment is bad, and Dominicans would rather it be kept out?
I dunno. My head hurts...:ermm:
I thought the DR sought foreign investment. I thought, lacking internal capital that foreign $$$ brings in, creating infrastructure, capital improvements, and jobs was a good thing. I thought folks on this website were somewhat giddy when The Donald came in, tossing his $$$ and reputation around (for one example).
I don't quite understand how this is a bad thing.
Even IF only 18% (or whatever %) of tourist $$$ is kept in country (a figure I'm highly sceptical of), isn't that more that what was in country before? Doesn't that foreign investment bring THAT in?
Are folks saying foreign investment is bad, and Dominicans would rather it be kept out?
I dunno. My head hurts...:ermm:
No foreign investment is good, I'm just trying to say the wonderful resources of the DR should be developed in such away that not only will they be protected, prepared for recessions, tropical storms etc, investors make a profit but the people receive some benefit besides a few low paying jobs and any benefit from sexual exploitation of women and children by foreigners.
RE: I bet your headache is really getting bad.
I read on another thread aranoid: that lavender oil is good for that. aranoid:
I have no problem with your perfect world scenario, especially the exploitation (however, it takes two to exploit; one is called rape).No foreign investment is good, I'm just trying to say the wonderful resources of the DR should be developed in such away that not only will they be protected, prepared for recessions, tropical storms etc, investors make a profit but the people receive some benefit besides a few low paying jobs and any benefit from sexual exploitation of women and children by foreigners.
Perhaps you can point me to where this perfect world exists...
The DR's hoteliers and tourism oriented industry is by far the most profitable for the host country than any other part of the Caribbean and many LA countries as well!!!
DR's resorts consume about 90% of the local goods at the hour of meals and drinks; add to that the fact that 99% of all inclusive use 95% native goods for their extensive offerings from foods to entertainment, rides, etc...
The fact that stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll escapes YOU, the foreigner, is that most big bucks biz in the DR are mostly comprised of Dominican shareholders...
Forget all you heard, but what you haven't. It's like comparing to know seawater in a puddle to having seen the 7 seas in all their extensions...
Again... Most top Dominican investors don't want the press that comes with the investment a la Donald Trump, they rather be incognito and free to move about in their own country with all freedom; unlike the Donald or many tycoons that must carry an entourage to move from point A to point B...
Just like the old Ochoa, who died long ago and still they haven't been able to tally the last dollar he owned... Do some math and calculate that you see people eating rice and beans in the DR every day of the week, year, decade, life... Now take under consideration that from the tomato to the can of the tomato paste used to cook those nice beans is made 100% in the DR by the Victorinas, them grow some freaking multitude of fingers to count with...
The same repeats with Rum, sugar, rice, clothing, shoes, etc...
And for some of you that still "hmmm" about "if" there is indeed an upper class that you don't know in the DR, let me be a little historic here:
Upper class Dominicans seldom if ever traveled to the USA as it was considered unrefined and the Moda too tacky. These Dominicans made regular travel to Paris, Madrid, Rome and every other city of stature in Europe at the time.
European mode was as casual as Yaniqueques in the streets of the DR, both in the Capital and Santiago. Most kids never felt American leather on their feet, but fine Italian skin since they could use them.
The travel for vacations was to the same places and on rare occasions to Disney (a must for the young); it was in fact so required by the US gov to appeal to the upper and middle class of the DR, that consulates were opened in both cities.
You were INVITED to visit the US by local officials like confetti going around in a party.
Most of the ones that got to visit the consulates came from the farms and towns in the city skirts. Most middle class and upper class families were provided films about the US and life there, as well as many were given residency instead of visas to go to the US. That was without one single paper other than your Birth Certificate and passport!
The picture that formed on the upper class of the DR about the USA was of the segregation that was common in cities like Florida and NY to the naked eye, and many being mixed families didn't like the idea of letting their kids see that.
Many of the young of these families went to schools in Europe with kids of high prominence and social stature there. Those today are still very good friends and many can count royalty among their friends, real friends...
The next time you see a resort or complex a la Cap-Cana, think not of foreigners getting rich in the DR, but wealthy Dominicans letting their money go for a jog...
Heck! Rich Dominicans are so poor, that they only have money...
DR's resorts consume about 90% of the local goods at the hour of meals and drinks; add to that the fact that 99% of all inclusive use 95% native goods for their extensive offerings from foods to entertainment, rides, etc...
The fact that stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll escapes YOU, the foreigner, is that most big bucks biz in the DR are mostly comprised of Dominican shareholders...
Forget all you heard, but what you haven't. It's like comparing to know seawater in a puddle to having seen the 7 seas in all their extensions...
Again... Most top Dominican investors don't want the press that comes with the investment a la Donald Trump, they rather be incognito and free to move about in their own country with all freedom; unlike the Donald or many tycoons that must carry an entourage to move from point A to point B...
Just like the old Ochoa, who died long ago and still they haven't been able to tally the last dollar he owned... Do some math and calculate that you see people eating rice and beans in the DR every day of the week, year, decade, life... Now take under consideration that from the tomato to the can of the tomato paste used to cook those nice beans is made 100% in the DR by the Victorinas, them grow some freaking multitude of fingers to count with...
The same repeats with Rum, sugar, rice, clothing, shoes, etc...
And for some of you that still "hmmm" about "if" there is indeed an upper class that you don't know in the DR, let me be a little historic here:
Upper class Dominicans seldom if ever traveled to the USA as it was considered unrefined and the Moda too tacky. These Dominicans made regular travel to Paris, Madrid, Rome and every other city of stature in Europe at the time.
European mode was as casual as Yaniqueques in the streets of the DR, both in the Capital and Santiago. Most kids never felt American leather on their feet, but fine Italian skin since they could use them.
The travel for vacations was to the same places and on rare occasions to Disney (a must for the young); it was in fact so required by the US gov to appeal to the upper and middle class of the DR, that consulates were opened in both cities.
You were INVITED to visit the US by local officials like confetti going around in a party.
Most of the ones that got to visit the consulates came from the farms and towns in the city skirts. Most middle class and upper class families were provided films about the US and life there, as well as many were given residency instead of visas to go to the US. That was without one single paper other than your Birth Certificate and passport!
The picture that formed on the upper class of the DR about the USA was of the segregation that was common in cities like Florida and NY to the naked eye, and many being mixed families didn't like the idea of letting their kids see that.
Many of the young of these families went to schools in Europe with kids of high prominence and social stature there. Those today are still very good friends and many can count royalty among their friends, real friends...
The next time you see a resort or complex a la Cap-Cana, think not of foreigners getting rich in the DR, but wealthy Dominicans letting their money go for a jog...
Heck! Rich Dominicans are so poor, that they only have money...
Where this 10% profit remaining in DR stays, comparing with other Carribean countries ?
Is it high, is it low ?
Now, if 90% goes out, are the rich Dominican owners outside DR ? I don't understand.
It's not a question, it's a confession. lol.
thank you
argumentum ad hominem
argumentum ad hominem :glasses:
Pichardo, I think much of what you're seeing is a disdain for wealthy folks in general, facts be damned.
It's not the first time it's raised it's class-envy head...
argumentum ad hominem :glasses:
Most Dominican (upper class) keeps their finances off shore in US or Euros given the decade till here declines of the Dollar value...
The DR gov not long ago tried to have Swiss banks detail some accounts owned by citizens there, not surprising it was denied and proof of wrong doing (money laundering, drugs, etc...) was requested for a per individual basis investigation by the Swiss in respite...
The DR then proceeded to track all US funds exported by shareholders in large biz in the DR. This back fired at them by having investors drop their loads in the DR by as mush as 80% in a single cycle!!!
So, today these bizes send their profits to accounts overseas, after disbursing the appropriated local taxes.
Profit margins for "good" to "terrific" finances in big ventures are not on the 90% mark but much broader... You can obtain financial disclosures by just searching the tax records (public) for big shareholder's ventures in the DR at the Rentas Internas database, just to get a scope of the magnitude of these ventures...
Let me be much more transparent with you...
Many of the ventures are housed in a complex which so happens to be owned by the Dominican Shareholder, himself a co-investor in the biz itself. Now, you own the property, some stock and a share of revenues as well. Do the math and close to monopolistic investment as you can get, will be the closest answer...
Take the Sociedad Industrial Dominicana, which majority members are NOT listed per se, but only corporations and LLCs in a way the place of their names. You'll spot a lot of small fish but no humpbacks...
Now you ask "how much of it stays?" Hmmmmm... Think about it!
Just not on many pockets but a privileged few...
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And what is Mercasid in relation to Sociedad Industrial Dominicana?
http://www.mercasid.com.do/
Is this the same Sociedad Industrial Dominicana (merged with Mercalia) that you're referring to PICARDO?
see www.supersudaca.org
Margaret, see www.supersudaca.org and look for their Al Caribe study/presentation.
Examples: Cruiseship tourists leave only 14 cents of their dollar in the Caribbean.
AI hotel tourists leave only 3% of their dollar in the Caribbean.
Sudaca's numbers come from the usual suspect sources (WTO, DR Govt., etc.) Believe them or not, their finding that "AI tourism is unsustainable development" rings incredibly true.
And Cobraboy ("the capital for a project stays in the DR forever."), travel the Bahamas by boat and see all the "forever capital" buildings crumbling on the remote Far Out Islands. They won't bring a penny now, and the cost of removal prohibits redevelopment. Think Puerto Plata Beach Resort on the Malec?n?
But retirees from Europe/Asia/LA/NA leave 100% of their pensions in the DR when they retire here. THAT kind of tourism pays dividends in many ways. The govt. needs to do more than just announce an empty program for it, but show how it helps the NA elderly in their recession. Ditto clinics/spas/hogares de ancianos.
Margaret, see www.supersudaca.org and look for their Al Caribe study/presentation.
Examples: Cruiseship tourists leave only 14 cents of their dollar in the Caribbean.
AI hotel tourists leave only 3% of their dollar in the Caribbean.
Sudaca's numbers come from the usual suspect sources (WTO, DR Govt., etc.) Believe them or not, their finding that "AI tourism is unsustainable development" rings incredibly true.
And Cobraboy ("the capital for a project stays in the DR forever."), travel the Bahamas by boat and see all the "forever capital" buildings crumbling on the remote Far Out Islands. They won't bring a penny now, and the cost of removal prohibits redevelopment. Think Puerto Plata Beach Resort on the Malec?n?
But retirees from Europe/Asia/LA/NA leave 100% of their pensions in the DR when they retire here. THAT kind of tourism pays dividends in many ways. The govt. needs to do more than just announce an empty program for it, but show how it helps the NA elderly in their recession. Ditto clinics/spas/hogares de ancianos.
Well, I suppose that bad investments stay there forever, too. Why would someone put a lot of money into the Far Out islands? I won't even get into the business structures the Bahamian gubmint requires, and how the corruption there makes the DR look like the Vatican.
Heck, look around the DR. The "investments" by locals are crumbling everywhere, too.
And sometimes those assets remain here when those elderly retirees die. In fact targetting babyboomers with no offspring for 'special advantages in relocating' would be very profitable for the DR.
pssst, cobraboy, word in your ear about the Vatican...........
I used a bad anology?pssst, cobraboy, word in your ear about the Vatican...........
Maybe I should have said Mother Teresa...:glasses: