The Growth of the Dominican Middle Class is Intentional

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
you're an economist or a socialist? Earning money and building wealth is not done by the government. The gov builds roads and infrastructure paid for by businesses i.e. tax dollars.
Everything depends on the government. It doesn't produces wealth, but it does produces the conditions for the wealth to be created. It also produces the framework, and what is allowed and not allowed.

Try running a business when political instability sets in. That will be fun. lol
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,621
7,869
113
El Salvador receives remittances equals to about a quarter of its economy while in the DR it's about 10% of the economy.

By any accounts, El Salvador is not more developed or even wealthier than the DR. Why is that? They depend more on remittances. If the DR would depend on remittances as they do, there would be more commerce if we go by the thougth process of many people in this forum. Heck, by the thought process of some in DR1, El Salvador should be doing better than the DR.

Most of the consumer spending in the DR have nothing to do with remittances and that goes for most of the middle class.
Apples to oranges.
Take remittances, drug money and ill gotten gains out of this economy, especially during covid and the "middle class" would be a much smaller than it is today regardless of what this government says.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NY-DR Commuter

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
Apples to oranges.
Take remittances, drug money and ill gotten gains out of this economy, especially during covid and the "middle class" would be a much smaller than it is today regardless of what this government says.
No it would not. Drug money is estimated at less than remittances. In fact, most of the drug money lever leaves the USA which is also where most is generated given the consumption. Monety laundering has a greater effect in countries that are considerably poorer than the DR. Tell us why it hasn't risen the standards of living there…
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,621
7,869
113
No it would not. Drug money is estimated at less than remittances. In fact, most of the drug money lever leaves the USA which is also where most is generated given the consumption. Monety laundering has a greater effect in countries that are considerably poorer than the DR. Tell us why it hasn't risen the standards of living there…
I'm not going make assumptions about countries I've never stepped foot in.
The middle class of this country knows exactly what I'm talking about so there's really no need for me to carry on with you about it .
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
I'm not going make assumptions about countries I've never stepped foot in.
The middle class of this country knows exactly what I'm talking about so there's really no need for me to carry on with you about it .
The predominant feeling among much of the DR's middle class is a sort of resentment towards Dominicans abroad and tend to look down and many even make fun of the diaspora. Plus, most middle class households are not receiving a single cent from remittances, those are headed mostly to poor households in the barrios.
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
7,090
2,963
113
The predominant feeling among much of the DR's middle class is a sort of resentment towards Dominicans abroad and tend to look down and many even make fun of the diaspora. Plus, most middle class households are not receiving a single cent from remittances, those are headed mostly to poor households in the barrios.
With a remittance rate of greater than 80% sent to the pop. how does one break out the remittance to " the middle class"? I'm sure there is data somewhere but I am interested in looking at those numbers. TIA
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,043
6,190
113
South Coast
Plus, most middle class households are not receiving a single cent from remittances, those are headed mostly to poor households in the barrios.

I agree with this. BUT we send money every month to one brother in Santo Domingo to pay the expenses on our home there: the caretaker, the cleaning woman, the dog food, the electricity, repairs, etc. That money has to be lumped in to “remittances” when it’s really not.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
With a remittance rate of greater than 80% sent to the pop. how does one break out the remittance to " the middle class"? I'm sure there is data somewhere but I am interested in looking at those numbers. TIA
Where are you getting that figure when around 10-11% of households receive remittances? There is no way that the "remittance rate is greater thsn 80% sent to the pop."

I'm getting the impression that some expats exaggerate things such as poverty levels and now even remittances. That could be due to a greater contact with the poor among expats which could lesd to that skew.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
There are also certain other details that may not be obvious to expats. For example, there are many small towns and campos in the DR where a good amount or most households receive remittances. It may seem most Dominican households receive remittances, but in rural areas and small towns live approximately 3 million people nationwide, that's about 30% give or take. Simply assuming all Dominican households in rural and villages/small towns receive remittances, how can anyone think they are most if they already know most of the population live in cities?

A similar occurence probably happens in cities. I remember one time in City-Data Pichardo was saying that most households in Santiago are actually in the middle class. That was challenged by a DR1 member, could had been an expat or someone that visits the DR, by saying she has been to Santiago and basically all the people that live outside poor neighborhoods are part of the 1%. The thing is that regarding that topic Pichardo was right. The question remains, why did the other DR1 thought that most households in Santiago are not middle class? Perhaps becsuse she relate more to people in poor neighbors?

Another DR1 recently clained the DR is not developing because he gets the impression it isn't based on what he see in areas like rural areas of Monte Plata (much of the highway to Samaná passes through that province), yet it's. He simply doesn't know how the DR was just a few decades ago.

Etc, etc, etc...
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
7,090
2,963
113
Where are you getting that figure when around 10-11% of households receive remittances? There is no way that the "remittance rate is greater thsn 80% sent to the pop."

I'm getting the impression that some expats exaggerate things such as poverty levels and now even remittances. That could be due to a greater contact with the poor among expats which could lesd to that skew.
You might have that impression Nals but you didn't get it from me. Can you only get data from those that don't receive remittances. BTW...forget it..not interested in the way you move 3 shells around the table. Have a good day.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
You might have that impression Nals but you didn't get it from me. Can you only get data from those that don't receive remittances. BTW...forget it..not interested in the way you move 3 shells around the table. Have a good day.
Where did you got the 80%?

I hope it wasn't one of those pulling it...
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,621
7,869
113
I live in Santiago.
The majority of my friends, acquaintances and neighbors are middle class. I stand by what I said.

This government, much like the last, has a tendency to pat themselves on the back more often than they deserve.

I hope to see the private sector/ back bone of the middle class grow to a point where remittances play a lesser role.
 

El Hijo de Manolo

It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!
Dec 10, 2021
3,920
2,574
113
Dominican Republic
I live in Santiago.
The majority of my friends, acquaintances and neighbors are middle class. I stand by what I said.

This government, much like the last, has a tendency to pat themselves on the back more often than they deserve.

I hope to see the private sector/ back bone of the middle class grow to a point where remittances play a lesser role.
I don't understand, remittances are mostly sent to the poor and the hookers. Who is sending remittances to the middle class? A tia in the Bronx who cleans toilets?

The majority of remittances is income from criminal activities sent to a network or family member for the purpose of buying used range Rovers and Mercedes Benz and for building materials to build their ghetto mansions in SDE
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big

Big

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2019
4,614
3,841
113
I don't understand, remittances are mostly sent to the poor and the hookers. Who is sending remittances to the middle class? A tia in the Bronx who cleans toilets?

The majority of remittances is income from criminal activities sent to a network or family member for the purpose of buying used range Rovers and Mercedes Benz and for building materials to build their ghetto mansions in SDE
Thank you! If someone is anyway shape or form counting on remittance as part of thier income they certainly are not middle class.
 
  • Like
Reactions: El Hijo de Manolo

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,214
3,066
113
I live in Santiago.
The majority of my friends, acquaintances and neighbors are middle class. I stand by what I said.

This government, much like the last, has a tendency to pat themselves on the back more often than they deserve.

I hope to see the private sector/ back bone of the middle class grow to a point where remittances play a lesser role.
Nope, most middle class househokds don't receive remittances.

All the people I know don't have AIDS. I guess it must not exist per the thinking of some DR1ers. :unsure:
 

RDKNIGHT

Bronze
Mar 13, 2017
2,685
1,420
113
When I first got here I could never figure out why I see so many hardware stores, Lottery Banco ,car washes, commercial space vacant, car dealerships .more barber shops and salons than people all over the place = cleaning money services... Can[t fool me know more
 

JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
Jan 7, 2016
11,386
7,926
113
I almost started a hardware store once when I had the farm. I was talked out of it by a tool salesman who told me if I didn't give credit nobody would buy from me. Took that as an omen and forgot about it.
At the time, there were no Ferreterias in the area; now there are 4.
 

malko

Campesino !! :)
Jan 12, 2013
5,538
1,321
113
Well I guess it all depends how you define " middle class " 🤔.

Common definition is households in the 4th,5th and 6th decile ( no idea if that is the English term ). A Google search tells us that is around 527$ per person.

So a typical middle class Dominican family would be around 1k$ per month.

So, sure, the DR government can brag/congratulate itself in getting more people into that category, but that's still poor AF by any western standard.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a good thing, but realistically, life ain't easy on 1k$ a month per household.
Will you go hungry ? No.
Will you be having the time of your life ? Nope.
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,621
7,869
113
Take remittances, ill gotten gains and third party financial support out of the equation over the last decade and (i guarantee you) your middle class shrinks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johne