The positive side of the Haiti-DR border fence

[Dolores]

The director of the Border Development Agency, Ramon Perez Tejada, had a long talk with reporters from the Listin Diario about the effects of the new border fence between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Among the various points shared is the importance of the fence to halt the cross-border rustling of cattle. Perez Tejada said that cattle rustling is really “cattle kidnapping” since the cattle usually show up at one of the small Haitian police stations along the border. There, the cattle are “ransomed” and returned to their owners.

The fence is also contributing to reduce the theft of motorcycles. The government has already built 60 km of the fence, but 191 km are contemplated along the 391-km border. Overall, the plan is to control illegal immigration and smuggling.

Perez Tejada notes that in the many small communities, where there are very small...

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[mountainannie]

I think that the talk of this "fence" is more a political salve than anything that will become a reality. There are simply areas along the border that can not be patrolled - PLUS the fact that being a border guard now - a member of CESFRONT - someone who collects the import duties into the DR is the most sought after position in the DR police force. That is not simply because they are paid more, but also because the tariffs for entering Haitian goods are not published but rather set on the spot by whatever "the market will bear" and, I suspect, a considerable part does not actually reach the treasury. Certainly cattle rustling and motorcycle stealing is an issue but it is carried out by gangs of both Haitians and Dominicans combined. I suspect that the border guards will simply be given a % of the ransom and the cross-border thieving will continue. http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/06/haiti-dominican-republic-neighbours-but-not-friends/

 

[mountainannie]

Sorry - wrong link - http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/07/haiti-dominican-republic-a-fragile-coexistence/

 

[CristoRey]

I think that the talk of this "fence" is more a political salve than anything that will become a reality. There are simply areas along the border that can not be patrolled - PLUS the fact that being a border guard now - a member of CESFRONT - someone who collects the import duties into the DR is the most sought after position in the DR police force. That is not simply because they are paid more, but also because the tariffs for entering Haitian goods are not published but rather set on the spot by whatever "the market will bear" and, I suspect, a considerable part does not actually reach the treasury. Certainly cattle rustling and motorcycle stealing is an issue but it is carried out by gangs of both Haitians and Dominicans combined. I suspect that the border guards will simply be given a % of the ransom and the cross-border thieving will continue. http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/06/haiti-dominican-republic-neighbours-but-not-friends/

Unfortunately they also bring drugs, weapons and young girls for prostitution.
Something needs to be done about it and this administration will hopefully get it done.

 

[mountainannie]

Unfortunately they also bring drugs, weapons and young girls for prostitution.
Something needs to be done about it and this administration will hopefully get it done.

I think that the weapons are going the other way - from the DR to Haiti. And - well - I am not so sure that the ADDITIONAL drugs and prostitues in the DR is going to make the difference. The issue is just the HAITIANS. You can't have thousands of Haitians just pouring into the DR - just as you can't have thousands of Central Americans pouring into the US. I don't know the answers... But I don't think that in either case a WALL is the answer.

There was discussion about better banking co-operation between the two countries. Has any of that been achieved? There used to be a truck line up delay in Jimani where the truckers had to wait while someone went ahead to PauP and paid CASH for the duty.. (and one can only imagine where the CASH went). To transfer money from the DR to Haiti - had to go through a bank in Miami. That is certainly ONE thing that could make cross border life better - at least for Haiti.

Plus having the markets on the HAITIAN side of the border rather than the Dominican side. This would prevent the open gates at the existing border posts -4 posts - 2 times a week - everybody just walks on through. Then the Haitians would be the ones (perhaps) collecting duty?

The only way to stop Haitians from CROSSING the border is to make if more PROFITABLE for them to stay on their own side of it. I don't know how many folks on this board have actually crossed the border points into Haiti? But it was only because a series of "Binational Fairs" that any of the towns on the Haitian side even got electricity on the streets.

Just my thinking.

 

[Naked_Snake]

I think that the weapons are going the other way - from the DR to Haiti. And - well - I am not so sure that the ADDITIONAL drugs and prostitues in the DR is going to make the difference. The issue is just the HAITIANS. You can't have thousands of Haitians just pouring into the DR - just as you can't have thousands of Central Americans pouring into the US. I don't know the answers... But I don't think that in either case a WALL is the answer.

There was discussion about better banking co-operation between the two countries. Has any of that been achieved? There used to be a truck line up delay in Jimani where the truckers had to wait while someone went ahead to PauP and paid CASH for the duty.. (and one can only imagine where the CASH went). To transfer money from the DR to Haiti - had to go through a bank in Miami. That is certainly ONE thing that could make cross border life better - at least for Haiti.

Plus having the markets on the HAITIAN side of the border rather than the Dominican side. This would prevent the open gates at the existing border posts -4 posts - 2 times a week - everybody just walks on through. Then the Haitians would be the ones (perhaps) collecting duty?

The only way to stop Haitians from CROSSING the border is to make if more PROFITABLE for them to stay on their own side of it. I don't know how many folks on this board have actually crossed the border points into Haiti? But it was only because a series of "Binational Fairs" that any of the towns on the Haitian side even got electricity on the streets.

Just my thinking.

I have crossed, and the only point on that part of the island that is remotely close to having DR standards of living is Ouanaminthe. That doesnt take away from the relative beauty of other geographical locations like Jacmel, but it is what it is.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Besides the economic aspect of things, the main systemic problem I see with Haitian affairs is that they need to begin to understand that parliamentarism may not be suited to their needs. For starters, the administrative process need to be streamlined and made simple, not more complex, as in, political measures need to be prompt, and they need to stick.

 

[NanSanPedro]

I think that the weapons are going the other way - from the DR to Haiti. And - well - I am not so sure that the ADDITIONAL drugs and prostitues in the DR is going to make the difference. The issue is just the HAITIANS. You can't have thousands of Haitians just pouring into the DR - just as you can't have thousands of Central Americans pouring into the US. I don't know the answers... But I don't think that in either case a WALL is the answer.

There was discussion about better banking co-operation between the two countries. Has any of that been achieved? There used to be a truck line up delay in Jimani where the truckers had to wait while someone went ahead to PauP and paid CASH for the duty.. (and one can only imagine where the CASH went). To transfer money from the DR to Haiti - had to go through a bank in Miami. That is certainly ONE thing that could make cross border life better - at least for Haiti.

Plus having the markets on the HAITIAN side of the border rather than the Dominican side. This would prevent the open gates at the existing border posts -4 posts - 2 times a week - everybody just walks on through. Then the Haitians would be the ones (perhaps) collecting duty?

The only way to stop Haitians from CROSSING the border is to make if more PROFITABLE for them to stay on their own side of it. I don't know how many folks on this board have actually crossed the border points into Haiti? But it was only because a series of "Binational Fairs" that any of the towns on the Haitian side even got electricity on the streets.

Just my thinking.

I have crossed Ouanaminthe a few times and Perdanales once (twice if you want to get picky). My very first time was on free market day in Ouanaminthe. Never again. Now it's no Mondays or Fridays. Ever.

I do like the idea of having the free markets on the Haitian side. It might cut into the bribes for the border guards but it will serve to keep Haitian on their own side legally.

 

[USA DOC]

Have been into Haiti several times, always from the bridge at Dajabon... and have been thinking about the problem of Haitians crossing into the DR for about 10 years, and about 7 years ago I talked to the ambassador from Jamaica and he brought up the problem of the conditions in Haiti and then asked me what I thought would be the outcome, As I had no answer he told me what he thought, he started by saying for good or bad the 2 countries will become 1...back then I thought that would be the bad outcome... now I think he was right, And if that is the only outcome it will be a positive one because thats all the DR has at this point in time................

 

[Naked_Snake]

Have been into Haiti several times, always from the bridge at Dajabon... and have been thinking about the problem of Haitians crossing into the DR for about 10 years, and about 7 years ago I talked to the ambassador from Jamaica and he brought up the problem of the conditions in Haiti and then asked me what I thought would be the outcome, As I had no answer he told me what he thought, he started by saying for good or bad the 2 countries will become 1...back then I thought that would be the bad outcome... now I think he was right, And if that is the only outcome it will be a positive one because thats all the DR has at this point in time................

Depends on which of the political systems ends up overcoming. If it's DR's and its relative stability, then the bad things about the outcome could be (somewhat) turned around, but if current "Haitian" conditions are the ones to overcome, well, then the rest of the archipielago will be in for a rocky ride, cuz' unless the island gets to have a (permanent) naval blockade, the problems currently plaguing the western part will become the ones of the entire archipielago....

 

[USA DOC]

Depends on which of the political systems ends up overcoming. If it's DR's and its relative stability, then the bad things about the outcome could be (somewhat) turned around, but if current "Haitian" conditions are the ones to overcome, well, then the rest of the archipielago will be in for a rocky ride, cuz' unless the island gets to have a (permanent) naval blockade, the problems currently plaguing the western part will become the ones of the entire archipielago....

Good point... from were I am in the DR, and looking around what I see is the problem is already here.... Sooo be positive about it , this is a island and to stop what might be the inevitable could be near impossible....and to say Puerto Rico is next, probably not... US territory and all that.....

 

[Naked_Snake]

Good point... from were I am in the DR, and looking around what I see is the problem is already here.... Sooo be positive about it , this is a island and to stop what might be the inevitable could be near impossible....and to say Puerto Rico is next, probably not... US territory and all that.....

I wouldnt so sure about it. Doms have become a sizeable minority in PR already, coast guard and all, so what could prevent Haitians from doing up the same? Specially if they manage a relations coup of putting themselves like the Central American caravans on the Mexico-US border? You know as well as I do that in the current year it isn't the facts that matter, but how the narrative is spun on the media.

 

[CristoRey]

Have been into Haiti several times, always from the bridge at Dajabon... and have been thinking about the problem of Haitians crossing into the DR for about 10 years, and about 7 years ago I talked to the ambassador from Jamaica and he brought up the problem of the conditions in Haiti and then asked me what I thought would be the outcome, As I had no answer he told me what he thought, he started by saying for good or bad the 2 countries will become 1...back then I thought that would be the bad outcome... now I think he was right, And if that is the only outcome it will be a positive one because thats all the DR has at this point in time................

Haitians are wired differently.
Let us pray this never happens.

 

[mountainannie]

Have been into Haiti several times, always from the bridge at Dajabon... and have been thinking about the problem of Haitians crossing into the DR for about 10 years, and about 7 years ago I talked to the ambassador from Jamaica and he brought up the problem of the conditions in Haiti and then asked me what I thought would be the outcome, As I had no answer he told me what he thought, he started by saying for good or bad the 2 countries will become 1...back then I thought that would be the bad outcome... now I think he was right, And if that is the only outcome it will be a positive one because thats all the DR has at this point in time................

I think the odds of that are slim to none. Haitians don't actually pay much attention to the Dominican Republic but would rise up in an amazing rebellion were there any effort of the DR to annex them -- And WHY would the DR want it? Haiti is not a prize but a burden. Many Haitians would be quite happy to be annexed to Quebec! (they accept educated Haitians liberally - it is known as Haiti's foreign aid program)

 

[NALs]

Have been into Haiti several times, always from the bridge at Dajabon... and have been thinking about the problem of Haitians crossing into the DR for about 10 years, and about 7 years ago I talked to the ambassador from Jamaica and he brought up the problem of the conditions in Haiti and then asked me what I thought would be the outcome, As I had no answer he told me what he thought, he started by saying for good or bad the 2 countries will become 1...back then I thought that would be the bad outcome... now I think he was right, And if that is the only outcome it will be a positive one because thats all the DR has at this point in time................

A positive one? How? The DR would simply begin to function more like Haiti. You are aware that they are currently going through political instability for the 576,087 time, right? A country will never go nowhere if it's constantly unstable.

 

[USA DOC]

A positive one? How? The DR would simply begin to function more like Haiti. You are aware that they are currently going through political instability for the 576,087 time, right? A country will never go nowhere if it's constantly unstable.

yes I know....can I ask you if this could happen?... being this is already started and the only place for most Haitians to go is the DR.... the time for stopping this mass migration was a number of years ago...its sad but true and in other parts of the world the same thing is going on.......

 

[USA DOC]

I think the odds of that are slim to none. Haitians don't actually pay much attention to the Dominican Republic but would rise up in an amazing rebellion were there any effort of the DR to annex them -- And WHY would the DR want it? Haiti is not a prize but a burden. Many Haitians would be quite happy to be annexed to Quebec! (they accept educated Haitians liberally - it is known as Haiti's foreign aid program)

Annie... I didnt mean that the DR wou;d take over Haiti, but the people of Haiti would come to the DR in very large numbers and after a while being this is a island would become the same after years...Thats what the Jamican Ambassador was saying... what do you think?

 

[NALs]

yes I know....can I ask you if this could happen?... being this is already started and the only place for most Haitians to go is the DR.... the time for stopping this mass migration was a number of years ago...its sad but true and in other parts of the world the same thing is going on.......

I think it's widely known that I'm not too positive of the future of the DR as things are today. If anything, everything seems to point towards the DR has an expiration date if nothing is done to at least slow it down to allow for assimilation. Otherwise, the DR is well on its way to becoming Haiti part II and Haiti part I doesn't look too good as it is!!

 

[NanSanPedro]

I think it's widely known that I'm not too positive of the future of the DR as things are today. If anything, everything seems to point towards the DR has an expiration date if nothing is done to at least slow it down to allow for assimilation. Otherwise, the DR is well on its way to becoming Haiti part II and Haiti part I doesn't look too good as it is!!

NALs, you should probably expand on that. I would have thought quite the opposite.

 

[Riva_31]

I think it's widely known that I'm not too positive of the future of the DR as things are today. If anything, everything seems to point towards the DR has an expiration date if nothing is done to at least slow it down to allow for assimilation. Otherwise, the DR is well on its way to becoming Haiti part II and Haiti part I doesn't look too good as it is!!

Dominican Republic already know that internation comunity wants DR solve Haitian problem no matter wich way, best way is helping then to grow, starting for provide them with a reasonable public services like health, and goverment here knows and thats why Abinader just had a meetting with the embassadors that want to help on build hospitals in the Haitian side and give us a breath of the big amount of Haitans women coming to deliver their babes.

And about to became one that was going to be very soon if in 2010 the new constitution wasnt added ilegals in the article where says about nationality bedside transit that was added in 1929. Is well know that they wants to give Dominican nationality to as many haitians as possible, and they keep telling the lie that Haitians born here are stateless with is not true because stateless is when no one country recognize you as citizent and Haitian constitution says in the art. 11 that are haitian all born from Haitians by birth, so they can claim Haitian Citizenship but dont do it because their plan is transfer to us all those Haitians.