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The Two Residency Threads

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william webster

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Winging it & Frequent Overstayer
These two threads generate a lot of interest and controversy... naturally.

We all have opinions....often differing

Opinions are one thing - making recommendations/telling others to ignore the rules is another matter.
Offering opinions and giving directives are VERY different animals!!

It amazes me when people say -
Screw the system, flaunt it -
I don't care what the law says---etc
The country is too dumb to figure it out

This isn't responsible - IMO

I participate in other forums where this topic is discussed...
The conversations there are more civil.

The reason (or part of the reason ) is the moderators will not tolerate anything that flagrantly flouts the laws.

Opinions are welcomed -
but any suggestions otherwise are quickly shut down
Hence, the conversations never deteriorate to what we have here.

I am not the only person with 'dual' membership
Several of us float between the 2 sites.

Just serving up my thoughts......
 
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Polar Bear

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I'm amazed that so many on here want to keep imposing their views on others and the lengths they will go to to try and accomplish that! ;)

Why is it so important that everyone does things as you would?

What a boring world that would make....
 
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windeguy

Guest
I'm amazed that so many on here want to keep imposing their views on others and the lengths they will go to to try and accomplish that! ;)

Why is it so important that everyone does things as you would?

What a boring world that world make....
It is not the issue of people doing what they want that concerns me. Putting themselves at some risk does not concern me. That is their personal decision.

It is the people that advise others to ignore the laws of the land that is troubling. It is far better to know what the laws are, inform them of the laws, and let them decide on that basis.
 
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william webster

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That's my point Windy --- exactly that

I realize that for many here , English isn't the first language and responses can get garbled - unintentionally

But what we hear from people here - scofflaws perhaps... Whew!
I get it...many people like playing the role of The Rebel... Devil may care attitude..... OK
But why try to convert others ??

As I say - they are censured on the other forum for such behaviour
 
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Polar Bear

Guest
It is not the issue of people doing what they want that concerns me. Putting themselves at some risk does not concern me. That is their personal decision.

It is the people that advise others to ignore the laws of the land that is troubling. It is far better to know what the laws are, inform them of the laws, and let them decide on that basis.
But you do it every, single, thread..post...it's nauseating LOL.

NOT a personal attack...or any kind of attack but some observations:

You guys, and for the sake of my sanity I'll lump you all together even though we all know you're autonomous, have made your opinions clear, and anyone worth assisting will be able to figure that out without all the constant judging and "reminding".

Others have differing opinions and should not be judged or insulted for that, and allowed "equal time" without the badgering.

Who made you dudes "The Sheriff" and why should the rest of us have to put up with having your opinions on everything be forced upon us? It's like the same group of vocal and opinionated posters takes it upon themselves to "correct" everyone, argue with everyone of dissenting opinion until they give up.

It's ruining any remaining value of DR1 as a source of information IMO and that of many others...

Well, that was a LOT more than I'd intended to say and than most will want to read so I'll leave it there. Get the knives out and have at it! ;)
 
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irishpaddy

Guest
some people want it both ways …..enforce these laws but ignore these ones ...and be happy with all tourists /overstayers
 
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Polar Bear

Guest
That's my point Windy --- exactly that

I realize that for many here , English isn't the first language and responses can get garbled - unintentionally

But what we hear from people here - scofflaws perhaps... Whew!
I get it...many people like playing the role of The Rebel... Devil may care attitude..... OK
But why try to convert others ??

As I say - they are censured on the other forum for such behaviour
But...is it any of "your" business? Why are your opinions more valid?
 
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Garyexpat

Guest
Winging it & Frequent Overstayer
These two threads generate a lot of interest and controversy... naturally.

We all have opinions....often differing

Opinions are one thing - making recommendations/telling others to ignore the rules is another matter.
Offering opinions and giving directives are VERY different animals!!

It amazes me when people say -
Screw the system, flaunt it -
I don't care what the law says---etc
The country is too dumb to figure it out

This isn't responsible - IMO

I participate in other forums where this topic is discussed...
The conversations there are more civil.

The reason (or part of the reason ) is the moderators will not tolerate anything that flagrantly flouts the laws.

Opinions are welcomed -
but any suggestions otherwise are quickly shut down
Hence, the conversations never deteriorate to what we have here.

I am not the only person with 'dual' membership
Several of us float between the 2 sites.

Just serving up my thoughts......
Maybe I missed it but I have not seen anyone write:
Screw the system, flaunt it -
I don't care what the law says---etc
The country is too dumb to figure it out

Others that think that I do simply state there are no verified accounts of people being rejected for solely overstaying while at the same time there is a plethora of proof from over stayers NOT having any problems. (I have offered to meet with you nay sayers to prove it.
I am not in the business of giving advice to others, if asked I would simply state there is a law which UP TO NOW is not being enforced and the Gov. supplies a method to be able to leave after your overstay without any penalty in addition to the overstay fee itself.
I think that the moderators are in the right by allowing my opinion and others of my thinking to express what is not only our opinion but our experiences which can be verified, unlike these "some guy" stories.
 
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cobraboy

Guest
Many of us live here 24/7/365 and will be buried here.

We are the ones who have to live with the laws while hoping cultural evolution makes the Dominican Republic a more civil environment where people respect each other.

The keystone of any civil society is a social contract where reasonable laws are agreed upon, disseminated to the public, and the public abides by those laws. I am not takling about a heavy-handed legal structure where everyone walks on eggshells like in the states, Canuckia or the EU, where it is nearly impossible to live even a day without violating some law with severe consequences of caught by a massive police force or bureaucracy. Just a basic respect of property, life and person. Don't steal. Don't run red lights. Be responsible for your actions and liability thereof. Don't put others in harm.

Part of that respect for a civil society is a respect for the sovereignty of that country and their laws.

But some come to the DR specifically to not be part of a civil society, to not obey the laws as written. They would never consider violating the laws in their home country as in the DR, so maybe the DR is where they blow off steam, to let their true id escape. In this regard they fit the definition of "Outlaw", and many flaunt the fact the "tourist" in the DR is a protected class. They have no respect for the sovereignty of the DR, nor it's culture and social contract.

The irony is many of the very people who are DR Outlaws, are the ones who complain the loudest about the negative side of the culture and the lack of honesty of Dominicans and the culture.

And as long as these tourist "Outlaws" can party how they want an screw who they want without recrimination, they could not care less about those who live here, and how their collective behavior just perpetuates a less civil society.

At the same time I ask a rhetorical question: If a law is not enforced, does it even exist?
 
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PICHARDO

Guest
The exit penalty fee is not a means to legally avoid overstaying without the correct and proper legal means (as in extensions).

It was introduced because like many other countries (USA, EU, etc...) at the time found it nearly impossible to track all foreigners and their stays. It wasn't until later that many countries adopted the renewal of passport books with the same number assigned always. Nor was it possible to keep a database with no limitations, as queries would had taken hours or days to match on those identifiers provided as input.

The DR found a simple workaround to a simple problem, given the bulk of the violators came from across the border, not in a boat or plane.

Now we have the technology and the means to apply a solution that provides both tracking and weeding out of the human corruptible factor in the chain.

The changes to the entry stamp, are one way to warn foreigners of the enforcement soon to come. This is not targeted to tourists, but overstayers.

The exit penalty fee has no legal standing, nor does it provide any to the violation in the first place. Just because you paid it, doesn't mean it's not going to be an issue down the line.

Key word here being enforcement. And as you know, many changes already have been introduced in the past years, almost overnight.
 
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Polar Bear

Guest
The irony is that Dominicans don't obey many laws.

Driving is about as bad or worse than anywhere on the planet. Speed limits? Red lights? Right of way. Laughable...lol Littering? Partaking in "beeper girls, their secretaries...cabañas... Fine for them and tolerated for us IF we're respectful and keep it all undercover like a Dominican.

Gringos, no matter how long you've lived in the DR, who you may have married, if you own a business or not, etc...are no better than respectful tourists in the eyes of any Dominican I've know that's forward and caring enough to be honest...and we all, gringos, need to remember that we're but visitors...even those of you that bother with residency and even citizenship and have lived here 30+ years. You're no better than a tourist on a 30 day visa and that's the harsh truth no matter if you accept it or not ;)

P.S. there's nothing worse than a holier-than-thou, "I'm legal" and I'm-gonna-rub-your-nose-in-it-at-every-opportunity even if I have to make said opportunity myself, Gringo expat...not even an ex-smoker! LOL


P.P.S I see you sparky, disliking my every post. Keep it up, if you can, I wear each one as a badge of Honour! :p


P.P.P.S We're all glad you choose not to participate any more ;) It's the right choice! :D
 
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william webster

Guest
Having just returned from London...
I couldn't help but compare the driving...

London =
overcrowded
small streets
cars squeezing where they shouldn't
face to face (bumper to bumper) confrontations

Not a heck of a lot better....

just a different mayhem
 
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carlos

Guest
Everyone needs to take a step back.

There are laws and then there are laws that are not being enforced.

If you overstay your Visa, then you are here illegally. Once you leave, the country charges you a penalty and you are able to come back with no issues. The law says you can be denied reentry. Again, the law is not being enforced so those that don't want residency are able to pay a fine and move on. There will come a time in the future where the law may be enforced and those that overstay may be denied reentry. It could be tomorrow or in a thousand years when everyone here is dead.
If you are ok with overstaying and paying a fine knowing that one day things will change and it may or may not impact you then go for it.

If you are here legally then good for you but let's also be careful into not scaring people into thinking they are going to be locked up somewhere and get denied reentry if they ever overstay. Let's work with reality and current facts.

What we can't do here is give our opinions as fact. Telling a person looking for advice that they will be ok and that it is fine to overstay with no issues may not be the most prudent approach. We should be letting the person know the law but we can also inform them how lax the enforcement has been and that person can proceed as they wish.

For those that have overstayed it does not matter if you have lived here for 6 months,50 years, have a Dominican wife and kids, own businesses or contribute to the economy. You are a visitor. One has nothing to do with the other. Let's not downplay the facts and chastise others that have decided to follow the law. If it bothers you that much that they are here stating the law then go ahead and become legal yourself.

I will be closing this thread shortly. There is no need to have 3 similar threads open.
 
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bob saunders

Guest
But...is it any of "your" business? Why are your opinions more valid?
Because there are informed opinions based on facts and laws of the land and then there are illformed opinions based on feelings....rtc.
 
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bob saunders

Guest
The irony is that Dominicans don't obey many laws.

Driving is about as bad or worse than anywhere on the planet. Speed limits? Red lights? Right of way. Laughable...lol Littering? Partaking in "beeper girls, their secretaries...cabañas... Fine for them and tolerated for us IF we're respectful and keep it all undercover like a Dominican.

Gringos, no matter how long you've lived in the DR, who you may have married, if you own a business or not, etc...are no better than respectful tourists in the eyes of any Dominican I've know that's forward and caring enough to be honest...and we all, gringos, need to remember that we're but visitors...even those of you that bother with residency and even citizenship and have lived here 30+ years. You're no better than a tourist on a 30 day visa and that's the harsh truth no matter if you accept it or not ;)

P.S. there's nothing worse than a holier-than-thou, "I'm legal" and I'm-gonna-rub-your-nose-in-it-at-every-opportunity even if I have to make said opportunity myself, Gringo expat...not even an ex-smoker! LOL


P.P.S I see you sparky, disliking my every post. Keep it up, if you can, I wear each one as a badge of Honour! :p


P.P.P.S We're all glad you choose not to participate any more ;) It's the right choice! :D
Some remove all doubt.
 
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william webster

Guest
Thank you carlos....

saying what you did is what my feeble effort was trying to do...
I seem to have a small bullseye on my forehead on this topic....

The irresponsibility of foisting an opinion as fact is disturbing and shouldn't be allowed...IMO
 
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carlos

Guest
Cdn_Gringo posted the below in another thread. Great summary.


The Past:

The DR has been very lax in enforcing it's own immigration rules. Many people came, stayed, and paid when they left.

The Present:

The DR Govt now has an immigration database that records the entry and exit for all visitors.
Currently, you can overstay and still pay the exit fee/fine on your way out
Each overstay is now recorded in the database
Rumour is that at some point the Govt will begin to enforce the immigration laws in a way we have not seen before.

If you come here and overstay, it will be noted on your immigration file.
If there is a penalty over and above the exit fee/fine, your overstay history will be a factor.
If the current arrangement changes while you are in the country illegally, you'll have to deal with it.
Times are changing... slowly...

The Future:

Sorry I'm not psychic. I don't know what, when, how, why.

My personal take:

If you are coming to the DR in any capacity other than as a tourist (ie you intend to live here for longer than the winter) then it is incumbent upon you to do so legally or potentially suffer the consequences for not doing so. Can you get away with it, maybe? At least right now, it's pretty easy to do, but I firmly believe that the days of coming and going as you please for a few pesos extra are numbered. Is that a big number or a little number? The future will tell and those you find themselves with an immigration record that is less than stellar in the eyes of the DR Govt, will have to accept whatever does or does not come their way.
 
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william webster

Guest
yup
we all saying the same thing....

at this point = it ain't black & white
 
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Harleysrock

Guest
You guys are so ridiculous lol. Seriously go get a hobby!!
 
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