Thinking about flying?

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NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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[snip]
Majority rules and all that.
Really? Forcing and imposing vaccine mandates is majority rules? This sounds more like a tyrannical regime forcing their will on the majority or forcing them to pay a heavy price, in some circumstances, if they 'disobey'. If people were left to their own devices I doubt you'd be making the same claim.
 

CristoRey

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What's Causing Flight Delays And Cancellations?​

Pilot Shortages Are The Primary Reason No mention here of vaccine denial problems as mentioned as the SOLE reason......................But keep trying to get that in anyway............




Many delays and cancellations are because of an industry-wide pilot shortage. In addition, the legacy carriers and regional operators don’t have enough staff for various reasons.




As a result, airlines are combining routes or discontinuing services when necessary to offset staffing shortages. This move is similar to the height of the pandemic when carriers reduced to minimal service as travel demand plummeted.

Nonsense.
I just watched CNN this morning and they are saying the there are no pilot shortages, no flight delays, no cancellations and everything is fine.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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Apr 10, 2022
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Really? Forcing and imposing vaccine mandates is majority rules? This sounds more like a tyrannical regime forcing their will on the majority or forcing them to pay a heavy price, in some circumstances, if they 'disobey'. If people were left to their own devices I doubt you'd be making the same claim.
Isn't that how Democracy is supposed to work?
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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@keepcoming The airlines should and could have seen it coming. They should and could have reacted better, faster, and in a more enlightened way, but they chose not to. No sympathy for them at all, either. They're their own worst enemies ;)
@keepcoming Isn't everything for an airline employee based seniority?

If, so how difficult it it to look at the pilots you have employed and make a decision based on seniority of your pilots and retirement age.
The branches of the United States military thinks pilots are so important they will take someone and train them from hour 1
Some airlines (not in the United States) train their pilots the same way.
My point, the "pilot shortage" was predictable and could have been property managed by CEO's paying more operational attention to their respective airlines than their bonuses.

Now the other personnel shortages can be blamed on many things.
But if they lay a bunch of people off, those people have to live. So they go and figure out other ways to make money.
When the airline decides to hire again, well those people may or may not be available.
That means hiring and training new people.
More costs.

In my opinion, US Airlines do not give a #$%@ about the flying public.
Review any list of the ranking of airlines from around the world.
You won't fine a single US Airline in the top ten.

The airlines pretty much know they can do what they want including not even making a profit because there are stakeholders that need them.
They don't fly by the standard business rules.
Even Warren Buffet lost money investing in the airline industry.
People/staff SHOULD stand up for what they believe in. I'm all in favour of that. I'm also in favour of, to paraphrase Spike Lee, "doing the right thing!" which in this case was to get vaxxed to keep your job, to also help minimize the spread of Covid, and to not put coworkers and customers at needless risk. Those that disagree could and did what they felt they needed, but there is no need to make them out as heroes or martyrs for their, selfish IMNSHO, beliefs. The same applies to all those who found that they could not easily travel or go to concerts, etc...
I have a very good friend. Who simply used the rules provided by his company to avoid getting THE VAX. He tested every week until the requirement was lifted.
They are/were a small, teeny-tiny, minority, although very vocal, whose opinions in perspective against the vast majority who did comply mean little. Majority rules and all that.
As for vax o no vax, there are consequences for keeping it 💯
Majority never rules...
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

Karma, it's worth waiting for ;)
Apr 10, 2022
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@keepcoming Isn't everything for an airline employee based seniority?

If, so how difficult it it to look at the pilots you have employed and make a decision based on seniority of your pilots and retirement age.
The branches of the United States military thinks pilots are so important they will take someone and train them from hour 1
Some airlines (not in the United States) train their pilots the same way.
My point, the "pilot shortage" was predictable and could have been property managed by CEO's paying more operational attention to their respective airlines than their bonuses.

Now the other personnel shortages can be blamed on many things.
But if they lay a bunch of people off, those people have to live. So they go and figure out other ways to make money.
When the airline decides to hire again, well those people may or may not be available.
That means hiring and training new people.
More costs.

In my opinion, US Airlines do not give a #$%@ about the flying public.
Review any list of the ranking of airlines from around the world.
You won't fine a single US Airline in the top ten.

The airlines pretty much know they can do what they want including not even making a profit because there are stakeholders that need them.
They don't fly by the standard business rules.
Even Warren Buffet lost money investing in the airline industry.

I have a very good friend. Who simply used the rules provided by his company to avoid getting THE VAX. He tested every week until the requirement was lifted.

As for vax o no vax, there are consequences for keeping it 💯
Majority never rules...
Yet it's the very foundation of many countries....

I have no time or interest in a bunch of self-important whiners, nor in "CEO's and such that are clearly incompetent.

Actions, or inaction, have consequences. This is true for many topics whether those supposedly in power like it or not.

I have chosen not to fly since the beginning of Covid and now flights are about 50% more....but I'm not complaining. Why? Because it was my choice not to fly then, and now my choice, and privilege, to fly and if it costs more....that's part of the current cost of freedom.

I'll pay my money, take my chances and keep my headphones on as much as I'm allowed....and sleep like a baby till I arrive at my destination. :D

Peace out ;)
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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Really? Forcing and imposing vaccine mandates is majority rules? This sounds more like a tyrannical regime forcing their will on the majority or forcing them to pay a heavy price, in some circumstances, if they 'disobey'. If people were left to their own devices I doubt you'd be making the same claim.
There is a funny skit about the first slave to get off the boat.
The first slave to get off the boat was ordered by massa to go pick some cotton.
That first slave said: @#$% you massa! Go pick that :poop: yourself.
Massa hit him with that whip...POW‼️💥

Next slave gets off the boat.
Massa says: go pick some cotton
The slave says: Yes sir massa, right away massa, I be picin cotton real gud 4 ya massa.

Power does not always come from being in the majority...
The definition of tyrannical depends on which side of the decision you are on.
There has never been a time in history where governments have shut down economic activity over a public health issue.
 

NotLurking

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Isn't that how Democracy is supposed to work?
No. Democracy in its purest sense is the rules by the majority without representation but obviating such an ideal and simple definition, I'll accept the more bastardize definition. However I don't recall personally voting for any forced medical mandate for the masses here in DR. I also don't recall my elected legislators voting on and passing any new law project that would amend or overturn our existing heath law, "Ley General de Salud Ley No. 42-01" and force vaccine mandate with the added grief of having to divulge our private medical affairs to all sorts of strangers or be treated like refuse (rubbish). Those member of society that choose democracy were not able to participate in everyday mundane things necessary to carry on with life.

I do recall though, a vaccine mandate being imposed by the current administration without input from it's electorate like a dictator; you know, democracy as you suggest and understand it.
 
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NotLurking

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Yet it's the very foundation of many countries....

I have no time or interest in a bunch of self-important whiners, nor in "CEO's and such that are clearly incompetent.

Actions, or inaction, have consequences. This is true for many topics whether those supposedly in power like it or not.

I have chosen not to fly since the beginning of Covid and now flights are about 50% more....but I'm not complaining. Why? Because it was my choice not to fly then, and now my choice, and privilege, to fly and if it costs more....that's part of the current cost of freedom.

I'll pay my money, take my chances and keep my headphones on as much as I'm allowed....and sleep like a baby till I arrive at my destination. :D

Peace out ;)
You do have a myopic view of the world. Good for you that you can abstain from air travel. Ohers aren't so lucky either by health, finance or family.
 

NotLurking

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There is a funny skit about the first slave to get off the boat.
The first slave to get off the boat was ordered by massa to go pick some cotton.
That first slave said: @#$% you massa! Go pick that :poop: yourself.
Massa hit him with that whip...POW‼️💥

Next slave gets off the boat.
Massa says: go pick some cotton
The slave says: Yes sir massa, right away massa, I be picin cotton real gud 4 ya massa.

Power does not always come from being in the majority...
The definition of tyrannical depends on which side of the decision you are on.
There has never been a time in history where governments have shut down economic activity over a public health issue.
The problem with forced compliance is that one day it ends abruptly and with a bang. Have a look at the history for the fate of most dictators like El Generalísimo Rafael Leónidas Trujillo.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

Karma, it's worth waiting for ;)
Apr 10, 2022
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The argument that the government forced anyone to get vaxxed is disingenuous at best, and I'm being generous. No one was actually forced. The Gov't, and many others in the world, were operating under emergency protocols that gave them extra powers. I've spoken with, as I do daily, many Dominicans and essentially all thought that the end, that is to say the relative superiority of how Covid handled in the DR was in fact justified by the measures the gov't took. They did not all agree at the time and there were certainly some who resisted and had hard feelings, but in the end it was worth it and the right thing to do.
 
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NanSanPedro

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Apr 12, 2019
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The problem with forced compliance is that one day it ends abruptly and with a bang. Have a look at the history for the fate of most dictators like El Generalísimo Rafael Leónidas Trujillo.
Now that was a bang!
 

reilleyp

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Dec 12, 2006
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Me, myopic? Not likely. Lucky, privileged even, absolutely. Who here is not?
Me. I am not privileged. I was born poor. Was pulled over by the cops for no reason. My family family name was not one of the “good names in town”. I did not have money for college, nor was I born athletic, so no sports scholarship. Yet somehow I made it. Just by hard work and pushing past the obstacles and bullshhht in my way.
 

flyinroom

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Not entirely true. As a former airline employee, I can tell you that one of the issues is when the pandemic started, and airlines weren't/barely flying instead of layoffs they offered early retirement which many took. It had nothing to do with vaccinations at that point. Also, many planes were "housed" for a long period of time. Bringing them back into service is not an overnight process. As for having plenty of "up and coming" pilots, not so correct. The pandemic pushed the timetable back for many "up and coming pilots". The airlines saw this ripple effect coming but unfortunately didn't have many solutions/answers to the situation.
Their minds are made up.
Don't attempt to confuse them with the facts.
It is folly.
Pure and unadulterated folly.
 

keepcoming

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May 25, 2011
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In short not all pilots are qualified to fly all the aircrafts in a fleet. Training was pushed back/delayed, etc... Nothing about the pandemic was predictable. Rules/regulations/closures changed constantly. Seniority did come into play especially with the early retirement out. What were once viable/profitable routes were no longer possible for some of the airlines. I fly a lot from SDQ to the US West Coast and back. Prior to the pandemic I had a few choices. Now not really. I make no excuses for my former industry but there were and are several obstacles facing the industry. IMO most of the airlines were just trying to get through the present (at the time) and not looking to the future when the pandemic rules/regulations/closures would end.
 
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SKY

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The pilot shortage is not caused by pilots refusing to get vaccinated:

Airport chaos: European travel runs into pandemic cutbacks​

You can read this whole article that tells of all the problems the airlines have and NOT find one instance of the garbage you post about Unvaccinated Pilots............

 

cavok

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Airport chaos: European travel runs into pandemic cutbacks​

You can read this whole article that tells of all the problems the airlines have and NOT find one instance of the garbage you post about Unvaccinated Pilots............

Huh? What have I posted that you disagree with?
 
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