this is interesting!!!!

jaguarbob

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Mar 2, 2004
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March 27, 2010

LINK TO ORIGINAL POST
Disturbing new U.S. law aims to end individual foreign bank accounts

End of freedomThanks to my good friend Paul McBride for bringing this
latest attack against freedom to my attention. I had posted some time
earlier this year about this potential legislation, but was not aware
it is now the law of the land. Here is his email from Paul and a copy
of the new law in PDF at the end. The law is aimed at foreign bank
account holders and those sending money outside the U.S.. This could
affect peoples ability to buy homes outside the country. It will
certainly affect their ability to have an account offshore. What banks
wants to deal with this?

In answer to his question on what I think about this? It sucks!

Sam, in all the controversy surrounding the recently passed health
care bill in the U.S., another piece of legislation was pushed through
Congress (and signed by the President) that will have a far reaching
impact on anyone thinking about buying real estate or investing
overseas.

The name of the bill is the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment
Act (H.R. 2487) commonly known as the HIRE Act. This is the jobs
incentive bill that was signed by the President on March 18th amid
little fanfare.

Relatively small by Washington standards (?just? an $18 billion
stimulus package) the bill was drafted to provide incentives to
employers to hire more people but contains some very disturbing
language concerning the ownership and transference of money to any
overseas account. The truly galling part of the bill is that it
attempts to require ?foreign financial and non-financial institutions
to withhold 30% of payments made to such institutions by U.S.
individuals unless such institutions agree to disclose the identity of
such individuals and report on the bank transactions?. Think about
this ? the U.S. government is attempting to strong arm foreign
financial and non-financial institutions (think banks and law firms)
to either withhold 30% of the transactions in a U.S. individual?s
account (and presumably remit this to the U.S. Treasury) or disclose
the account details to the U.S.. The language of the bill addresses
both bank accounts and any foreign trusts (ie- Private Interest
Foundations).

But what if a foreign, sovereign country has laws against the
disclosure of this information? Well, the bill contemplates this as
well. Here?s the actual language from the bill:

??(F) in any case in which any foreign law would (but
for a waiver described in clause (i)) prevent the reporting
of any information referred to in this subsection or subsection
(c) with respect to any United States account maintained
by such institution?
??(i) to attempt to obtain a valid and effective
waiver of such law from each holder of such account,
and
??(ii) if a waiver described in clause (i) is not
obtained from each such holder within a reasonable
period of time, to close such account.? (my emphasis)

In other words, under this legislation, a U.S. citizen having an
account with a foreign institution will be required to waive the
privacy protection afforded by local law. If they fail to do this,
the financial or non-financial institution is required to close the
account.

And what information do they want. Here again is the actual language
of the bill:

??(c) INFORMATION REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED ON UNITED
STATES ACCOUNTS.?
??(1) IN GENERAL.?The agreement described in subsection
(b) shall require the foreign financial institution to report the
following with respect to each United States account maintained
by such institution:
??(A) The name, address, and TIN of each account holder
which is a specified United States person and, in the case
of any account holder which is a United States owned
foreign entity, the name, address, and TIN of each substantial
United States owner of such entity.
??(B) The account number.
??(C) The account balance or value (determined at such
time and in such manner as the Secretary may provide).
??(D) Except to the extent provided by the Secretary,
the gross receipts and gross withdrawals or payments from
the account (determined for such period and in such
manner as the Secretary may provide).

Keep in mind Sam, this is not proposed legislation. This is already law.

There is much, much more in this bill. I?ve attached a PDF file
containing the language of the bill. The important information can be
seen if you scroll down to section on page 27 of the bill entitled:

TITLE V?OFFSET PROVISIONS
Subtitle A?Foreign Account Tax
Compliance
PART I?INCREASED DISCLOSURE OF
BENEFICIAL OWNERS
SEC. 501. REPORTING ON CERTAIN FOREIGN ACCOUNTS.

As we have suspected for some time, the U.S. government is closing the
window for U.S. citizens to protect their assets by moving them
offshore. It won?t be long before it will be punitively expensive to
move any amount of money overseas for any purpose.

I haven?t seen this legislation discussed anywhere on the Internet and
I think it would be a good story for the blog. Sadly, America is
losing its freedoms and its citizens are standing meekly by while the
noose of government control gets tighter and tighter.

Download HIRE Act of 3-18-10
 

tflea

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Jun 11, 2006
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Lawd

It is not a "disturbing new law", it is a new law. Whether it is disturbing or not depends on the individuals affected. As with any new law, or old law for that matter, it is open
to interpretation.
 
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tflea

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May I add, if you've been negatively affected, sorry , but it is not the "end of freedom", it is a regulation of offshore unaccountability. I don't have a problem with that law. If you've taken advantage of legal loopholes previously, more power to you. You might have a lot more at stake than most here. I might also. But I don't disagree with closing the loopholes for the fortunate.
 

waytogo

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This wouldn't effect a U.S. citizen in the least if they just open an account in a Dominicans name that they trust, if they have such a person.
 
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bienamor

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Apr 23, 2004
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This wouldn't effect a U.S. citizen in the least if they just open an account in a Dominicans name that they trust, if they have such a person.
Not sure you would even need to do that if you have residency. Then you would open under your cedula, not passport. No tie then to US citizenship, in that case.
 

jaguarbob

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Mar 2, 2004
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Not sure you would even need to do that if you have residency. Then you would open under your cedula, not passport. No tie then to US citizenship, in that case.
problem is,the banks want your ss number,if not they hold 30% of your money ....or close your account..
Went to bank central to get a certificate that was expired,and had to fill out a document,which wanted info,and one was ss number...no number no money...that is what started this...googled,and got this info...also found that 2 weeks ago,US passed another law requiring all banks worldwide to report all dollar transactions,and if not,to close all dollar accounts...big brother is coming..
bob
 

Conchman

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an interesting article about this provision in the law, on this blog:

American Thinker: The New Front in the War on Wealth

to quote a section:

"And per the Swiss-American Chamber of Commerce, "A lot of banks simply will not be able to do business in the US and that would cause considerable damage to the US economy."


Not only banks, but the activities of asset-managers and securities-dealers will be affected. The administrative cost of tracking down all U.S. (citizen and non-citizen) clients and making efforts to make sure that they are tax-compliant will be enormous and impractical.


Therefore, foreign investors viewing the overall landscape of what was once the preeminent nation for investment will not subject themselves to the machinations of the IRS and other enforcement agencies, which have been given unlimited power to broadly interpret regulatory bills passed by this Congress and signed by President Obama."

Another job killer by Obama, basically.
 

MikeFisher

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Feb 28, 2006
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sorry to disagree to the complaint,
but i think it was time that the big Economy Moloch USA takes such steps, and they are still even not tied enough.
Europe has such regulations since a while,
i had to provide myself such infos about my own Dominican Business, local Tax number(RNC), name, amounts of money moved, receipt of Tax payments etc etc years ago, 2 of my bank accounts (both in my private name, not in my company's name, both with European Banks) been frozen in for 3 days and the European authorities requested the above mentioned details/info about me/my company/my tax payments etc.
i provided the requested infos and on Day 3 my accounts been open again. thanks to a scanner and internet connection to provide such info quick, if relying on caribbean Mailing systems i would sure til today have no account anymore, ha ha.
while frozen in i could still receive money on both accounts from my customers, but i could not withdraw/send/wire money from there to anywhere.
they urgently need to close more of such loopholes for the tricky rich ones who move their illegally earned or non-tax-paid money overseas while we small and by the law running businesses pay the Taxes to get the Roads fixed on which the big shots driver with their Ferraris for free.

who makes a living legally and pays his/her country the appropriate taxes like required by each country's laws has nothing to fear from that Law, the opposite, more people need to pay their Taxes so there's more income for the community.

Mike
 
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william webster

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I agree about the imact on asset managers etc.

I can point you to investments funds who will not accept applications/investments from US citizens. This was a fall-out from 9/11 but will only get worse

As other posters have shown, these laws are in place all over Europe but when the US gets involved... people back away
The US involvement must be construed as too cumbersome... or inept.. depending on your politics.

The intent here is two fold and difficult to decipher.... are they looking for tax avoiders (a la the USA, possibly) or are they looking for illegal transactions (a la the whole world) ?

Tax havens exist and will continue to do so... Europe allows such but still tracks funds... chasing the illegal transactions is my guess.

The impetus for the US is anybody's guess.... imperialism ?

WW
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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Consider this part of the price of freedom...

Seriously.

This is not some legislation to "get the rich guy" or take away anybody's "freedom". This is how they limit cross border financial access of drug dealers and terrorists and the entire 1st World will operate similarly before long. The US government isn't the first or the last to put similar measures into place.

This is the same type of wide eyed, hysterical paranoia which accompanied (and still does) the RICO Act. This, like the RICO and Patriot Acts are legal medicine for a society which has for too long allowed gangsters and terrorists to operate under the radar. Like most medicine, it leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

...by the way...Big Brother really is watching....this will only intensify with the passage of time. It's like punishing the entire class for the actions of one or two unruly kids.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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From that article:

the U.S. is the only industrialized nation that taxes its overseas citizens, subjecting them to taxation in both their country of citizenship and country of residence.
There is one other country in the world which imposes taxes based on citizenship.... very small (maybe not industrialized), I can't recall the name.

I always think it ironic that after such a big tea party, the Americans are such punishing taxers.

All this going on and some Texan dies last month with an estate valued at $9 billion....... no death taxes in 2010.... that's one very happy family which is about $4 billion richer thanks to he gov't sitting on their hands

Thanks Dad, you did it again for us.... one last time.
 

belgiank

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Jun 13, 2009
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just a funny addition

in Belgium, a bank is obliged to ask you where money comes from if you make a deposit of more than 1,000 ?...

so some time ago, when we had a business fair, and I deposited a couple of thousand euro in my account (but not in the bank-office I went to normally) I was asked where the money came from...

they told me they had to check whether the money came from drugs, terrorism or white slavery... upon my response that:
- if the money would come from such a source, I would be the first to tell them... whahahahaha
- and if that was all the money I was making from drugs or slavery, I would better find myself another job...
I first got a strange look, and then they started laughing...

In Belgium though, there is a law which states that if you can prove you live for more than 100 working days in a foreign country, you have the choice to pay your taxes in this country or in Belgium (hmmmm... let me think... 25% here or 65% in Belgium... hmmmm)
 

MikeFisher

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U.S. Expat Taxes Drive Americans to Give Up Citizenship - TIME

Article in Time magazine about how some deal with what they see as unfair.
i don't see where there could be any kind of problem or trouble for the biggest part of US Citizens???

3 millions of US Citizens living abroad?, heck, that by far not even 1 percent of the US Citizens, so no need to dramatize such lil stuff up to some importance. and the very most of that by far not 1 percent of US Citizens even is anyways not turning in their Passports. that sounds to me like most are ''not unhappy'' with the way the ole US is.

BelgianK,
right, your system in Belgium is not different to what applies to Germans, 'western Europeans', you make money so you have to pay Taxes, in your homecountry OR in your Expat-Country, and i still do not see where there should be any trouble, we can freely decide wheer we wanna make some bucks and we can even 'nearly decide' where we pay the Taxes for the earned money, or at least we have to pay the Taxes at the location where we make the money, nothing bad on that.
the fact that we have to proof that the money in our hands/posession/tried to deposit/tried to money-wire-somewhere is clean money which been legally earned and taxed in any destin prior to be in our posession, that is something i really appreciate, to stop that all the illegal moneymakers can money-wire their illegal earnings to where ever they want on the planet.
if a small business guy stores on his poor mother's name a number of expensive cars in his garage, used by himself(or the poor ole mother or unemployed brother), lives in a expensive location/Villa much over the possibilities of his official Taxed business earnings, then i appreciate that the Gubmin has the right to ask him ""where does all that cash come from"", and when he can't proof such it should just be taken away from the illegal bit$$ and given back to the Taxpayers account to better the country's economics.
and such does not depend on stuff like 'living abroad or in the own country etc etc', it applies for everything owned.

i would love to see reports about such 'big shots' who managed to bring illegal bucks out of their countries, stored them in the suterrain of their millionaires villas, would love to see reports about them burning the Bills b/c they are not worth the paper they are printed on.

you wanna life in a world with written rules, mostly named ""Laws""?, then apply those same rules for everybody, not just for the working class while others laugh about exactly that working class paying taxes to get the roads and airports maintained to drive the Ferraris on and get the Gulfstreams started.

if you do not want a ruled/big bro styled/taxed/authority run etc world, o.k., then let's just get started a Anarchie where the strongest get's it all the way he want's and the big crowd of the rest pay's for it, not much unlike many 1st world systems work today's.

Mike
 

Chip

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I don't have a problem paying my US taxes.

That being said I hope people could see the implications that Dominicans banks would be witholding money on behalf of the US government. I think issues of abuse are plausible.
 

MikeFisher

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I don't have a problem paying my US taxes.

That being said I hope people could see the implications that Dominicans banks would be witholding money on behalf of the US government. I think issues of abuse are plausible.
i don't think so.
as long as the requested info/data/details are provided the bank would not have any legal reason to hold any money.
such is just the case when the required info/details/data about the account holder not been provided.

Mike
 

Chip

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i don't think so.
as long as the requested info/data/details are provided the bank would not have any legal reason to hold any money.
such is just the case when the required info/details/data about the account holder not been provided.

Mike
I hope you're right but I doubt it.