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KyleMackey
Guest
Wonder if Sunwing would try to pick up some of the routes. Cook was using their AI deals with bookings.
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Thomas Cook ceased operations worldwide.
Wonder if Sunwing would try to pick up some of the routes. Cook was using their AI deals with bookings.
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frank recktenwald
Guest
Furious customers demand Thomas Cook bosses pay back £20million they reaped before company collapsed as government orders urgent probe into what went wrong
Andrea Leadsom has called for a probe into actions of Thomas Cook's directors
Comes amid accusations directors of struggling icon failed to 'future-proof' firm
Firm has blamed terror, the Arab Spring protests and Brexit for previous failings
Fat cat bosses were paid more than £20million in the past five years, it's revealed
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-tracks-investigation-Thomas-Cook-bosses.html
Andrea Leadsom has called for a probe into actions of Thomas Cook's directors
Comes amid accusations directors of struggling icon failed to 'future-proof' firm
Firm has blamed terror, the Arab Spring protests and Brexit for previous failings
Fat cat bosses were paid more than £20million in the past five years, it's revealed
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-tracks-investigation-Thomas-Cook-bosses.html
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TropicalPaul
Guest
BA is part of a bigger conglomerate of airlines, it's not just the BA. Also Thomas Cook is the holiday specialist, it does not have many business or first class seats. People mainly buy flight with BA, they buy holidays with Thomas Cook, totally different cattle of fish.....
Brexit had a serious impact on Thomas Cook, they announced it many times in their profit warning - of course if you choose to ignore it like other Brexiteres is up to you...!
On its Punta Cana service I would say that a good 80% of BA passengers are travelling on packages and not on flight only. Yes on other routes they are principally an airline, but not on their service to Dom Rep which is what we are interested in here. We will probably see BA expand, and we may see Virgin Atlantic start coming to Punta Cana now at long last.
I think it's easy for any business to use Brexit as an excuse, but the reality is that Thomas Cook was an outdated business model. The bulk of their customers were not British (only 150,000 of the 600,000 currently abroad are Brits), so it's hard to say that Brexit was to blame.
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Cdn_Gringo
Guest
It's hard to blame something that hasn't happened yet. Companies should have used the past few years to adjust their operations for a potential Brexit amid any market instability that the looming exit may have caused.
Actually nothing tangible has changed from the day after the vote to leave and today. The UK still enjoys all the benefits of EU membership, there is no political deal covering an actual exit and there is nothing but a stated intention to leave without a deal. If history is any indication, there will be another exit delay sought or a complete withdraw of the idea leading to an internal political crisis in the UK.
At this point, I'm pretty sure nothing is going to happen at the end of October.
Actually nothing tangible has changed from the day after the vote to leave and today. The UK still enjoys all the benefits of EU membership, there is no political deal covering an actual exit and there is nothing but a stated intention to leave without a deal. If history is any indication, there will be another exit delay sought or a complete withdraw of the idea leading to an internal political crisis in the UK.
At this point, I'm pretty sure nothing is going to happen at the end of October.
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Uzin
Guest
On its Punta Cana service I would say that a good 80% of BA passengers are travelling on packages and not on flight only. Yes on other routes they are principally an airline, but not on their service to Dom Rep which is what we are interested in here. We will probably see BA expand, and we may see Virgin Atlantic start coming to Punta Cana now at long last.
I think it's easy for any business to use Brexit as an excuse, but the reality is that Thomas Cook was an outdated business model. The bulk of their customers were not British (only 150,000 of the 600,000 currently abroad are Brits), so it's hard to say that Brexit was to blame.
Brexit was one of the reasons and has contributed to their downfall, amongst other issues, the two Brexit dates this year was probably the nail in the coffin...
I have not read their latest financial statement to see where they were loosing money, but 150k are those Brits stranded abroad today, their UK customer base maybe higher in winter times....
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Uzin
Guest
It's hard to blame something that hasn't happened yet. Companies should have used the past few years to adjust their operations for a potential Brexit amid any market instability that the looming exit may have caused.
Actually nothing tangible has changed from the day after the vote to leave and today. The UK still enjoys all the benefits of EU membership, there is no political deal covering an actual exit and there is nothing but a stated intention to leave without a deal. If history is any indication, there will be another exit delay sought or a complete withdraw of the idea leading to an internal political crisis in the UK.
At this point, I'm pretty sure nothing is going to happen at the end of October.
I totally disagree, it heavily effected people's mindset and budgeting in general and specially the budget for holiday abroad - a bit of luxury item for average middle class....
It started with 31 March, and then again 31 October and it will go on until that mess is sorted out.
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Cdn_Gringo
Guest
It is certainly understandable how the uncertainty of the situation can cause people to be hesitant in their spending. However, a vacation for many is one of those "costs" of life that "we" absorb as long as the final price is within our means.
Someone with a working car may opt to wait and see before buying a new one. Some may put off renovations to their homes. Travelers may change their destination to something closer/cheaper but usually will not cancel a vacation entirely. Provided that vacationers follow through with their intent to travel, and assuming that they still opt to travel outside their home country, the effects on a well run travel business/airline should be minimal. A room and a flight is still a room and a flight regardless of the actual destination and pricing would reflect what the market will bear.
I don't subscribe to the theory that people's choices and activities have changed greatly at this stage of the Brexit process. Thomas Cook certainly didn't change substantially in the past two years - business as usual despite the mounting financial losses. Probably caused by the "Big Guy on the Block" trying to compete with the leaner more efficient provider's pricing without shedding any of the fat that would allow those lower prices to sustain the group of companies. A company can only accrue debt for so long - eventually everyone demands to be paid.
Someone with a working car may opt to wait and see before buying a new one. Some may put off renovations to their homes. Travelers may change their destination to something closer/cheaper but usually will not cancel a vacation entirely. Provided that vacationers follow through with their intent to travel, and assuming that they still opt to travel outside their home country, the effects on a well run travel business/airline should be minimal. A room and a flight is still a room and a flight regardless of the actual destination and pricing would reflect what the market will bear.
I don't subscribe to the theory that people's choices and activities have changed greatly at this stage of the Brexit process. Thomas Cook certainly didn't change substantially in the past two years - business as usual despite the mounting financial losses. Probably caused by the "Big Guy on the Block" trying to compete with the leaner more efficient provider's pricing without shedding any of the fat that would allow those lower prices to sustain the group of companies. A company can only accrue debt for so long - eventually everyone demands to be paid.
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KyleMackey
Guest
They have had financial issues for a long time. The DM article that Frank linked went into a lot of detail.I totally disagree, it heavily effected people's mindset and budgeting in general and specially the budget for holiday abroad - a bit of luxury item for average middle class....
It started with 31 March, and then again 31 October and it will go on until that mess is sorted out.
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KyleMackey
Guest
It is certainly understandable how the uncertainty of the situation can cause people to be hesitant in their spending. However, a vacation for many is one of those "costs" of life that "we" absorb as long as the final price is within our means.
Someone with a working car may opt to wait and see before buying a new one. Some may put off renovations to their homes. Travelers may change their destination to something closer/cheaper but usually will not cancel a vacation entirely. Provided that vacationers follow through with their intent to travel, and assuming that they still opt to travel outside their home country, the effects on a well run travel business/airline should be minimal. A room and a flight is still a room and a flight regardless of the actual destination and pricing would reflect what the market will bear.
I don't subscribe to the theory that people's choices and activities have changed greatly at this stage of the Brexit process. Thomas Cook certainly didn't change substantially in the past two years - business as usual despite the mounting financial losses. Probably caused by the "Big Guy on the Block" trying to compete with the leaner more efficient provider's pricing without shedding any of the fat that would allow those lower prices to sustain the group of companies. A company can only accrue debt for so long - eventually everyone demands to be paid.
They stranded 600,000 people, 150,000 of which are Brits. A lack of bookings does not seem to the issue.
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Cdn_Gringo
Guest
Your's is the point I am trying to convey.
It's easy and very convenient to blame Brexit but I do not think that Brexit uncertainty has much to do with anything at this stage of the process.
It's easy and very convenient to blame Brexit but I do not think that Brexit uncertainty has much to do with anything at this stage of the process.
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Juan Bosch
Guest
Brexit was one of the reasons and has contributed to their downfall, amongst other issues, the two Brexit dates this year was probably the nail in the coffin...
I have not read their latest financial statement to see where they were loosing money, but 150k are those Brits stranded abroad today, their UK customer base maybe higher in winter times....
Brexit was a small player in all of this......debt is the top dog.....
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...l-adventure-ends-in-early-morning-liquidation
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/23/thomas-cook-debt-brexit
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Uzin
Guest
I had a quick look at their FY18 annual report:
Underlying EBIT (profit) in £mil:
UK: FY18= -7 , FY17= 49 down -56
Continental Europe : FY18= 73 , FY17= 95 down -22
Northern Europe: FY18= 95 , FY17= 102 down -7
This is for FY18, I am pretty sure if they publish for 2019 the UK profit would have been far worse.
It's just as easy to say Brexit had no effect or to say it had. A bit clear with numbers. They also had -3.4% reduction in total number of customers to 10.881 mill in FY18, but then I didn't find the info about type of holiday/package breakdown, cheaper packages have very low margin as oppose to high class, luxury ones, cheaper ones are where budget minded Brits since the referendum must have been piling on...
Underlying EBIT (profit) in £mil:
UK: FY18= -7 , FY17= 49 down -56
Continental Europe : FY18= 73 , FY17= 95 down -22
Northern Europe: FY18= 95 , FY17= 102 down -7
This is for FY18, I am pretty sure if they publish for 2019 the UK profit would have been far worse.
It's just as easy to say Brexit had no effect or to say it had. A bit clear with numbers. They also had -3.4% reduction in total number of customers to 10.881 mill in FY18, but then I didn't find the info about type of holiday/package breakdown, cheaper packages have very low margin as oppose to high class, luxury ones, cheaper ones are where budget minded Brits since the referendum must have been piling on...
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KyleMackey
Guest
I had a quick look at their FY18 annual report:
Underlying EBIT (profit) in £mil:
UK: FY18= -7 , FY17= 49 down -56
Continental Europe : FY18= 73 , FY17= 95 down -22
Northern Europe: FY18= 95 , FY17= 102 down -7
This is for FY18, I am pretty sure if they publish for 2019 the UK profit would have been far worse.
It's just as easy to say Brexit had no effect or to say it had. A bit clear with numbers. They also had -3.4% reduction in total number of customers to 10.881 mill in FY18, but then I didn't find the info about type of holiday/package breakdown, cheaper packages have very low margin as oppose to high class, luxury ones, cheaper ones are where budget minded Brits since the referendum must have been piling on...
Did their N. African business ever recover from the terrorist attack at that resort? I read a couple of years ago that some of those resorts and towns became almost deserted......the exception bring some Russian tourists.
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beeza
Guest
Im sorry as a American I never heard of Thomas Cook how much will this affect tourism to DR?
It's only the largest travel company IN THE WORLD. As an American of course you would never of heard of them.
Your world extends to the borders of your contiguous country, just like your World Series.
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Uzin
Guest
Did their N. African business ever recover from the terrorist attack at that resort? I read a couple of years ago that some of those resorts and towns became almost deserted......the exception bring some Russian tourists.
Africa was coming back from last year, but that is not their biggest money earner (well, wasn't any more since the safety issues some years ago).
Reading about Thomas Cook earlier this year I understand their biggest problem was having very costly stores in the streets and shopping malls in UK, this is really to do with their history and how they come about all those years ago, this is where they sold to their least sophisticated travelers who don't use internet and are the most budget minded crowd, but in very large numbers. Their sale was heavily effected by Brexit in those stores and they tried to close as many as 100 stores this last year, but too little too late. They simply could not pay up their heavy debt interest or secure more loans which finally made them to throw in the towel...
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KyleMackey
Guest
It's only the largest travel company IN THE WORLD. As an American of course you would never of heard of them.
Your world extends to the borders of your contiguous country, just like your World Series.
He is on a DR message board and his world only exists in the contiguous border of the USA, lol. MLB/World Series is global anyone on a, especially, DR forum would know that.
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playacaribe2
Guest
It's only the largest travel company IN THE WORLD.
They used to be..not anymore though.
As an American of course you would never of heard of them.
Your world extends to the borders of your contiguous country, just like your World Series.
Why the underlying hostility? He made a statement with no animus that I could detect and wondered how it might impact tourism to the DR.
I suspect a lot of Americans do not know that Thomas Cook USED TO BE the largest travel company IN THE WORLD, as their presence here in the US was fairly limited.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
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beeza
Guest
They used to be..not anymore though.
Why the underlying hostility? He made a statement with no animus that I could detect and wondered how it might impact tourism to the DR.
I suspect a lot of Americans do not know that Thomas Cook USED TO BE the largest travel company IN THE WORLD, as their presence here in the US was fairly limited.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Just a little snipe at the shear ignorance of some of your compatriots. Yes, it WAS the largest travel company in the world. The news has hit the headlines of every major news outlet, and this poster has never heard of Thomas Cook.
This topic has hit a nerve with me. I worked for Thomas Cook for twelve years. Some of the best years of my career. Many close friends and ex colleagues are now on the dole.
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melphis
Guest
It's only the largest travel company IN THE WORLD. As an American of course you would never of heard of them.
Your world extends to the borders of your contiguous country, just like your World Series.
FYI Toronto won the world series. Twice (92 & 93)
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mobrouser
Guest
Just a little snipe at the shear ignorance of some of your compatriots. ....
Uncalled for and unnecessary snipe. You owe ogunjobi123 an apology.