Today’s elections

Chirimoya

Moderator
Dec 9, 2002
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We went to SD today but did not take part in the march or rally because it was coopted by the opposition parties and the essence of the protest is that it should be non-party-political. The protestors want the PLD out but few have any illusions about the alternatives on offer.

The non-political protest is calling for:
- Transparent elections
- Investigation into the event and clear answers
- Penalties and consequences for those responsible

We were in the Los Prados area at 3:00 pm and heard the 'cacerolazo' (10 minutes of banging on pots and pans) and it was impressive.
 

caribmike

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2009
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It spreads. Just now was a 'cacerolazo' here in Santiago too.

People are fed up me thinks and some politico a**holes of course trying to take over the protests for their purposes. People should wake up and NOT vote for those too.
 

user123

Member
Aug 16, 2017
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Nobody "se van" nowhere. All this will blow over in a week or two. If PLD se van who's gonna replace them? Leonel? Luis? I wish Trujillo would win, just for the kicks. :laugh:
 

Chirimoya

Moderator
Dec 9, 2002
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Abinader is leading the polls. As I said, few illusions, but the public want the PLD out.

One of the aspects of these protests that gives me hope for the future is that the young protestors organise clean-ups of the area after the crowds disperse. Contrast that with the litter-strewn aftermath of a conventional political rally.
 

caribmike

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2009
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Well, as long as they do not change the complete system, not much will change. The ones not in power only want their turn to grab what they can and put their own botellas to work. Then, after 4 or 8 years, the others get their chance again and so on.
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
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Playa Najayo & South Jersey
We passed by Plaza de las Bandaras at around 4.30 today. Still a healthy group of people there, mostly in front of the Junta Central. Enterprising guys selling all sizes of DR flags all over the streets. I usually see that around 27 de Febrero time, but not as many as this.
 

etolw

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2018
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WOOOW!!! It's like they copied it 1:1. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Poor technicians that did not have the training and correct instructions to load the ballot into the voting program?

And a JCE with no plan B to continue with manual voting if the new shiny computers and the voting program did not work as intended?

But agree, after that the plot got better...:laugh:

 

Lucifer

Silver
Jun 26, 2012
4,047
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One sure way to stop big-time corruption and ensure clean elections: The State Dept. cancelling all visas for all members of Congress, Senate, and even Testículos Montás and their immediate families.

No more trips to their expensive dwellings in NYC and Miami. No more shopping spree for their spouses and kids.

I know, I know: they’ll still be able to travel to Canada and Europe, but believe you me: these folks couldn’t stand not having a U.S. visa.

When it was rumored that Amable had his visa cancelled, the Higüey cacique practically succumbed to clinical depression having to deny the rumors.
 

Estrelleta44

New member
Dec 28, 2018
30
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0
One sure way to stop big-time corruption and ensure clean elections: The State Dept. cancelling all visas for all members of Congress, Senate, and even Testículos Montás and their immediate families.

No more trips to their expensive dwellings in NYC and Miami. No more shopping spree for their spouses and kids.

I know, I know: they’ll still be able to travel to Canada and Europe, but believe you me: these folks couldn’t stand not having a U.S. visa.

When it was rumored that Amable had his visa cancelled, the Higüey cacique practically succumbed to clinical depression having to deny the rumors.
I hope they DO!!! it would be of great help if anyone here with connections could throw that idea at some US politician. you know... just lay it on the table.
 

carlos

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 29, 2002
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Here’s my take on all this. There is a mix of corruption and incompetence here. I remember reading in the newspaper a while back that it cost about 20 million dollars to implement these electronic machines and keep in mind that they were not installed everywhere. That means it really cost between 5-8 million and the rest was stolen and the testing they said they did to verify everything would work was obviously not done properly if any was done at all.

There is zero excuse to not have a backup to go manual when these issues were noticed. Did they notice that the PLD was losing and used this as an excuse to suspend the elections? Very possible.

Were they incompetent? Absolutely.

Protests are great as long as they are peaceful. What’s more important is to educate the ones that are protesting so they are fully aware of what it is they are protesting and what the end goal should be. Demand changes and action and make sure this does not happen in the Presidential Elections that are coming up.
 
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beeza

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
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As an observer, I see this as a good thing for the DR. It is the younger educated population that are holding these peaceful protests and the numbers are growing daily. I'm astonished that these events don't get at all violent, even when provoked when someone drove a purple bus with PLD all over it by a mass protest group. The bus came off completely unscathed.

What's more surprising is that they tidy up after them.

So these young, middle class, educated Dominicans are fed up with the corruption and mis-management of the current government and they want a change of the current status quo. Good for them. But do they have any suitable candidates who stand for these people? It seems that the only plausible option is Abinader, who looks like he has a good chance of winning.

If Dominicans want real democracy, then they need to abolish the system of government party jobs known as "Botellas", meaning that as long as your party is in power, you have a job. Many of which don't actually work to earn an income. We had a domestic employee who was offered a botella to be a school janitor because she was a PLD member. She quit her job with us and went to the school where she received a much better income than we could ever pay her, for a lot less work. She HAS to vote PLD, because as soon as they are out of power, she will loose her job.

I think that the military, police and other government agencies should be able to vote too and be able to choose their candidate and party freely.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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As an observer, I see this as a good thing for the DR. It is the younger educated population that are holding these peaceful protests and the numbers are growing daily. I'm astonished that these events don't get at all violent, even when provoked when someone drove a purple bus with PLD all over it by a mass protest group. The bus came off completely unscathed.

What's more surprising is that they tidy up after them.

So these young, middle class, educated Dominicans are fed up with the corruption and mis-management of the current government and they want a change of the current status quo. Good for them. But do they have any suitable candidates who stand for these people? It seems that the only plausible option is Abinader, who looks like he has a good chance of winning.

If Dominicans want real democracy, then they need to abolish the system of government party jobs known as "Botellas", meaning that as long as your party is in power, you have a job. Many of which don't actually work to earn an income. We had a domestic employee who was offered a botella to be a school janitor because she was a PLD member. She quit her job with us and went to the school where she received a much better income than we could ever pay her, for a lot less work. She HAS to vote PLD, because as soon as they are out of power, she will loose her job.

I think that the military, police and other government agencies should be able to vote too and be able to choose their candidate and party freely.
There is no way to "fix" political corruption until a viable civil service system is implemented.

That is no permanent guarantee, of course, as we've seen in the U.S. But as long as political patronage = a job, corruption will continue.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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I hope and pray to the universe these protestors are successful. You don't have to be a citizen to see the ongoing damage the current politicos cause along with the frustration of the typical, normal Dominicans not living in or off "the system."

But as we see from elsewhere, the entrenched political "establishment"...and that includes virtually all the current political parties and most of the businesses that support them...will not give up without a fight, and they have tools in gubmint and media to tilt the outcome as they want.

Could be a long, frustrating slog. But I suppose it has to start somewhere and sometime.
 

Dolores1

DR1
May 3, 2000
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www.
The New York Times ends its story today on the Dominican protests by writing:

"Now, the nation has one of the highest electoral participation rates in Latin America, said Ramona Hernández, the director of the Dominican Studies Institute of the City University of New York.

“Despite everything that you hear, the people participate in the electoral process,” she said. “They believe in this thing, and this is why we worry.”

https://www.nytimes.com/article/dominican-republic-protests-elections.html
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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The New York Times ends its story today on the Dominican protests by writing:

"Now, the nation has one of the highest electoral participation rates in Latin America, said Ramona Hernández, the director of the Dominican Studies Institute of the City University of New York.

“Despite everything that you hear, the people participate in the electoral process,” she said. “They believe in this thing, and this is why we worry.”

https://www.nytimes.com/article/dominican-republic-protests-elections.html
The people participate...some for a chicken or beer...or botella...
 

Russell

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2017
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Political Patronge is a well entrenched policy in most Western Governments in North America.... It will not change.... but the meaningful Government Bureaucrats can be effective if allowed to learn and apply their trades.... Like in Canada the Patronage appointments are on the fringes and , from what I can tell, are not really effective.... I do not want to get into the discussion but there are thousands of Patronage Jobs given out to Party faithfuls.
 

Russell

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2017
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Abinader is leading the polls. As I said, few illusions, but the public want the PLD out.

One of the aspects of these protests that gives me hope for the future is that the young protestors organise clean-ups of the area after the crowds disperse. Contrast that with the litter-strewn aftermath of a conventional political rally.
I think that 27 February holiday will bring out a lot of Protestors... hopefully peaceful at that.