Funny thing, at the end of the war many German generals tried to convince the Allies to join forces and fight the Russians.
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Today marks 70 years since D-Day.
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They did already in 1940.. Most of the western European volunteers went to the East front to fight Communicism..
They have different feelings in Poland... It was Russia who invaded Poland together with the nazis.. They also invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania How would the world be if Germany didnt attack Russia.. S
QUOTE=Curacaoleno;1430793]They have different feelings in Poland... It was Russia who invaded Poland together with the nazis.. They also invaded Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania How would the world be if Germany didnt attack Russia.. S[/QUOTE]
Cura?ao, I'm not even touching the whole Polish vs Russians issue. It's too thorny, complex and massively detailed to just base it on the Russian invasion of Poland back then. The policy of the West let the Russians and Germans bleed as much as possible until they actually had to intervene. Devious? Yes, but a sound policy, in nightclubs the bouncers sometimes let the hotheads wear themselves out, then they take 'em down.
I don't remember the name of the southern general who said, "ya don't run into a fahyt"!
LC
Cura?ao, I'm not even touching the whole Polish vs Russians issue. It's too thorny, complex and massively detailed to just base it on the Russian invasion of Poland back then. The policy of the West let the Russians and Germans bleed as much as possible until they actually had to intervene. Devious? Yes, but a sound policy, in nightclubs the bouncers sometimes let the hotheads wear themselves out, then they take 'em down.
I don't remember the name of the southern general who said, "ya don't run into a fahyt"!
LC
Cura?ao, I'm not even touching the whole Polish vs Russians issue. It's too thorny, complex and massively detailed to just base it on the Russian invasion of Poland back then. The policy of the West let the Russians and Germans bleed as much as possible until they actually had to intervene. Devious? Yes, but a sound policy, in nightclubs the bouncers sometimes let the hotheads wear themselves out, then they take 'em down.
I don't remember the name of the southern general who said, "ya don't run into a fahyt"!
LC[/QUOTE]
It’s interesting seeing things from a different perspective (I’m assuming you are not from USA)
I finished The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich recently, a book based only on German documents.
The German/Russian/Polish issue isn't all that complex.
The Germans got Russian "cooperation" to invade half of Poland without Russian intervention, and Russia got the other half. What the Nazis didn't predict is that the Russians wanted Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania and that wasn't part of the deal. The Russians rolled in and there wasn't much Germany could do about it.
Folks don't realize the Nazi's cherished their eastern frontier much more than their West...
There was plenty of double-dealing on both the Germans & Russians in the late 30's/early 40's.
And how many people know this in the US? You and a dozen history professors? And I wonder why that is so... On the other hand, everyone in Russia knows and is grateful for what the US army did to help combat the nazi!
Maybe I was taught wrong in the soviet schools that the turning point of the whole war was at Stalingrad 23 August 1942 – 2 February 1943
D-Day June 6, 1944... I know it's a bit late to join the war that was nearing the end but it had to be done at this right moment, otherwise the soviets under devil Stalin who killed over 20 million of his own people, would have swallowed the entire Europe! Who knows what would it have looked like if not for the US soldiers. Thanks to them we still have our beautiful and culturally rich Europe!
The US had “joined the war” well before then
“We” started shipping Tin Cans to Britain in late 1940 closely followed by millions of tons of equipment and supplies the same year
Germany decalred war on US in Dec 1941 and we were heavily engaged in Pqacific theater early 1942 (Don’t forget the USA was fighting Japan not just Germany/Italy) trying to halt Japanese advance on Australia
By Nov. 1942 we were in North Africa with significant forces
July 1943 and invasion of the invasion of Italy got Germany’s attention
For a country with very weak military resources and few men the US ramped up quickly
D Day was beginning of end for Germany but most agree the attack on Russia sealed Hitler’s fate
And you certainly do have a beautiful continent!
That is correct but listen to what Lando Calrisian is saying.. quote "The policy of the West let the Russians and Germans bleed as much as possible until they actually had to intervene."
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Really, I hardly think I said anything like that?
I think you are looking at a post where there was a quote problem, Lando Calrisian made that remark not I
Sorry, mistake corrected
No problem, I didn't realize that quote was messed up until your post
Let us also not forget all the allied forces who battled in Normandy and commemorate the solders: Canada, Free French Forces, Australia, Belgium Free Belgian Forces, New Zealand, Netherlands United Kingdom, United States, Norway, Czechoslovakia Free Czechoslovak Forces, Greece
Cura?ao, I'm not even touching the whole Polish vs Russians issue. It's too thorny, complex and massively detailed to just base it on the Russian invasion of Poland back then. The policy of the West let the Russians and Germans bleed as much as possible until they actually had to intervene. Devious? Yes, but a sound policy, in nightclubs the bouncers sometimes let the hotheads wear themselves out, then they take 'em down.
I don't remember the name of the southern general who said, "ya don't run into a fahyt"!
LC[/QUOTE]
What "devious...policy of the West" are you referring to? Britain and France declared war on Germany no later than September 1939. The United States was isolationist just as it had been at the beginning of the First World War, though Roosevelt was aiding the British. By June 1941, when Germany attacked Russia, France had been crushed and most of Europe was under German subjugation. At the time the British had their hands full with the Germans and Italians in North Africa.
Although the United States, Britain and Australia were fighting Japan in Asia and the Pacific Ocean, the Soviet Union did not get involved against Japan until the August of 1945.
And why was North Africa a priority and not Europe itself? And of course who cared to help the soviets fighting the biggest army of nazis? Let them fight each other dead? While Stalin was sending civilian men without the weapons to fight well trained and armed enemy lines. It was just too bloody war for Russia, people there will never forget with generations to come.
Hitler wanted the Balkans & oil in the Mediterranean region.
He badly wanted the Gibraltar Straights.
The German plan to take the British colony of Gibraltar was called Operation Felix, but it depended on Spain entering the war. The Spanish already held the Moroccan side of the Strait.
Franco's decision not to enter the war is acknowledged to be another key factor to the outcome.
Some of his closest and most influential associates wanted to fight with Germany, but Spain depended on the US for its oil. Spain was also still devastated by its own Civil War.
Franco's decision not to enter the war is acknowledged to be another key factor to the outcome.
Some of his closest and most influential associates wanted to fight with Germany, but Spain depended on the US for its oil. Spain was also still devastated by its own Civil War.
Miozio
North Africa was not in itself a priority, it offered what was needed by the allies; a staging area for the invasion of Europe through Italy The planners knew an amphibious landing in Italy without supply lines and reserves in North Africa would be impossible and removing Germany from North Africa was necessary
I don't think any o the Allies liked the idea of the Soviets not being well equipped, convoy after convoy brought supplies to the Soviets from the west You have to remember the USA became the so called ?Arsenal of democracy? due to its huge industrial ramp up but they still had trouble supplying their own troops and those of Great Britain, France etc let alone the soviet Union, there was also that little problem of fighting Japan that Stalin refused to engage in
More people were actually killed by Stalin himself when he entered power.. Many people where killed (including the Americans who went to Russia to work for the Ford Factory) and send to the Gulags. Stalin attacked Poland and Finland..
BTW it was a world war so in many parts of the war there was fighting... USA and UK fought on several battle fronts..
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