Trujillo Death and funeral, May 1961.

Naked_Snake

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Sep 2, 2008
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Bachata, the innocent poster, and XO, the professor, are wrong this time: Trujillo was a tyrant and kept his $$$ in Swiss banks. And yes, some folks cried when he got killed. They cried in North Korea, too, when Dear Leader gave up the ghost.

Too bad there's no hell.

If he would have kept all his money in Swiss banks, the state's enterprises wouodn't have been as valuable as they were at the time he was assassinated. Have any doubts? Just ask the Bonettis, which were among the ones to get a piece of that pie. Or better yet, ask the ones in charge of the sale of the remaining carcass during the first mandate of Leonel's. You and Meemselle might complain all you want, but el taita Pedro Santana was very right when he said that democracy was an impossible utopia in a country like this, and our current reality is all the proof needed for the assertion.
 

Naked_Snake

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He was a horrible, horrible man and his legacy of murder and graft set the stage for the DR we know today.

I think you are being too soft with the so called political class of this country that both preceeded succeeded him in power. One only needs to put side by side the administrations of Horacio Vasquez and the ones of the PLD and they are practically the same, with perhaps the sole difference that Horacio was more kept financially on a leash by the Yanks, which were still on the island at the time (on the Haitian part). Outside that, they are a mirror image of each other. And there's another newsflash for you: the so called antitrujillistas have ended up costing the country more than Trujillo ever did. Case in point: Antonio Imbert Barrera, both during and after the 65' civil war and eventual Yankee occupation. Just go to Santo Domingo Norte or any barrio north of JFK avenue and dare proclaim your admiration for the man, and see how the locals treat you.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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The allegation was that Trujillo "set the stage" for future corruption. Trujillo was corrupt, and those that followed him were also corrupt.

The country is far more prosperous now than it was in 1961. There is more to steal.
When Trujillo was in power, few dared to start a business that competed with his many businesses.
 

Naked_Snake

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The allegation was that Trujillo "set the stage" for future corruption. Trujillo was corrupt, and those that followed him were also corrupt.

The country is far more prosperous now than it was in 1961. There is more to steal.
When Trujillo was in power, few dared to start a business that competed with his many businesses.

That's why I mentioned both the political class before and after him, genius. Trujillo's regime can't be studied in a vacuum, but by analyzing the conditions that allowed him to take power and the ones that resulted after him, and it's safe to say that the political class didn't learn the lesson.

The prosperous part can be disputed, specially since there can't be one sole breadwinner in a househood like it used to be back then, but this is a worldwide condition. What defeats your claim, though, is that the chasm between the haves and have nots have grown wider, and that a peso now buys a lot less than in 1961, despite the country being the one that grew up economically the most in Latin American during the last half century. But obviously, I seem to favor measuring prosperity by how well the people live (or not), while you seem to favor the resources approach alone.
 
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Gabriela

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Dec 4, 2003
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Read In the Time of the Butterflies to understand what living in Trujillo's DR was like for intelligent women. Trujillo and Cuba's Batista were ruthless, corrupt dictators, and the U.S. replaced Trujillo with Balaguer to ensure the revolution was defeated in the DR. Gotta love a country that accepts a blind aging American puppet to preserve the corruption and oligarchy. But hey, if you hate Haitians, you'll love the idea that Trujillo massacred many thousands of them.
 

Naked_Snake

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But hey, if you hate Haitians, you'll love the idea that Trujillo massacred many thousands of them.

But you bleeding hearts always love to ignore the fact that the country was forced to cede the Central Plateau as compensation, or the fact that the Haitian governing elites also received a monetary sum for the event. I guess they can do no wrong in your eyes...

Seeing the devastated state that region is at the moment, I guess many of the inhabitants of the place are wishing their departement to have remained under Dominican jurisdiction ever since. Anything is preferrable to the libertardian fantasy of "no state" the zone is living at the moment.
 
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Contango

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Looking at the Video none of the Chicas had Hair Extensions back then, you knew what you were really getting..
 

Naked_Snake

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Thanks for reminding me that some posters have no hearts.

Better to have no hearts than to have no brains to be capable of discerning through the hypocrisy of some people, to whom Haitian lives only matter when the Dominican pendejos are the ones to take it. When the case is Americans, Euros, or even themselves being the victimizers, noooooooo, pa' lante, down with nigs, everything else be damned.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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That's why I mentioned both the political class before and after him, genius. Trujillo's regime can't be studied in a vacuum, but by analyzing the conditions that allowed him to take power and the ones that resulted after him, and it's safe to say that the political class didn't learn the lesson.

The prosperous part can be disputed, specially since there can't be one sole breadwinner in a househood like it used to be back then, but this is a worldwide condition. What defeats your claim, though, is that the chasm between the haves and have nots have grown wider, and that a peso now buys a lot less than in 1961, despite the country being the one that grew up economically the most in Latin American during the last half century. But obviously, I seem to favor measuring prosperity by how well the people live (or not), while you seem to favor the resources approach alone.
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Jeez, I was agreeing with you. There were a lot of desperately poor Dominicans then, and there still are a lot of them. The population has increased fivefold, and the poor seem to be the ones that reproduce the most.
I have no idea what you think my incorrect position is. Or was.
 

Naked_Snake

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Jeez, I was agreeing with you. There were a lot of desperately poor Dominicans then, and there still are a lot of them. The population has increased fivefold, and the poor seem to be the ones that reproduce the most.
I have no idea what you think my incorrect position is. Or was.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Lost in translation I guess.
 

Naked_Snake

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Jeez, I was agreeing with you. There were a lot of desperately poor Dominicans then, and there still are a lot of them. The population has increased fivefold, and the poor seem to be the ones that reproduce the most.
I have no idea what you think my incorrect position is. Or was.

XO, as for the people blaming Trujillo for the past and present corruption of the DR, I guess they haven't read "El Derrumbe" from Federico Garcia Godoy (1916):

"Un individualismo, rabioso, torpe y disolvente, aun no atenuado en lo m?s m?nimo, parece como que marca un ritmo de permanente impulsi?n en la vida incoherente y tumultuosa del pueblo dominicano. Determina de continuo una especie de anarqu?a en que naufragan irremisiblemente los m?s nobles esfuerzos y las m?s altas aspiraciones. Poseemos una minor?a inteligente e ilustrada, pero aquejada tambi?n de un muy perturbador esp?ritu de individualismo.

Las rentas fiscales en parte se malgastan miserablemente en cosas innecesarias creadas por el personalismo pol?tico para satisfacer exigencias provocadas por el ansia de lucro o la vanidad pueril de inconformes sectarios. Se ha hablado mucho de ense?anza, hasta se ha declarado obligatoria, pero sin los medios ni recursos necesarios para hacer efectiva tal disposici?n. Nuestras escuelas, en su mayor?a, funcionan mal, sin competente personal t?cnico, sin modernos ?tiles pedag?gicos, sin locales adecuados.

La falta vergonzosa de sanci?n se revela en no pocos aspectos de nuestra manera de ser social. Nunca hemos puesto como era nuestro deber cordones sanitarios de desprecio a la multitud de criminales que c?nicamente se codea y quiere alzarse hasta la altura de la gente buena y honrada que abunda aqu? m?s de lo que se cree, pero que permanece en actitud de indolente retraimiento como medio de evitarse desconsideraciones y atropellos. S?lo hay una porci?n de gente que reprueba tales hechos, pero esa minor?a se contenta con indignarse en el hogar o en reuniones ?ntimas, sin decidirse jam?s a protestar p?blicamente ni a ir al peri?dico, a la asociaci?n, al tribunal para perseguir y hacer condenar a los autores de ellos en nombre del decoro social escarnecido y ultrajado.

He o?do much?simas veces, en conversaciones o discusiones, a personas de relativa cultura, expresar en tono de profunda convicci?n, como raz?n contundente, aplastante, sin r?plica posible, para justificar actos por todos respectos merecedores de amargas censuras, la consideraci?n funest?sima de que tales barbaridades se explican necesariamente por circunstancias del momento que pueden repetirse determinando los mismos pavorosos efectos. El mal, as? se le engalane y acicale, es y ser? siempre el mal. Una barbaridad del pasado jam?s justificar? una barbaridad del presente.

Y como corona de tales deficiencias, flor negra y pest?fera, la corrupci?n m?s envilecedora y disolvente. Profesionales, artesanos, agricultores, impulsados acaso en el primer momento por un sano y noble prop?sito de bien p?blico, dejaron sus respectivos honrosos medios de vida para en puestos diversos contribuir a la pacificaci?n del pa?s; pero poco a poco, insensiblemente, se fueron aficionando a una vida que les permit?a el disfrute de goces de cierto g?nero, la voluptuosidad del mando, los halagos de la vanidad, y ya por ning?n concepto quisieron volver a las asperezas de sus antiguas respectivas faenas. Se convirtieron en pol?ticos profesionales prestos a todas las humillaciones, a todos los servilismos, a cometer todas las crueldades que se les indicase de lo alto, con tal de no abandonar una v?a que f?cilmente pod?an alcanzar la satisfacci?n de menguados apetitos personales. Y como el mal ejemplo consagrado por el ?xito es siempre contagioso, el n?mero de pol?ticos que pretend?a sostenerse holgazanamente del presupuesto fue siendo cada vez mayor.

Crearonse, para satisfacer tales demandas, nuevos innecesarios puestos p?blicos. Y el ansia desbordante de lucro y de rapi?as, la oleada de la corrupci?n fue creciendo, creciendo como gigantesca inundaci?n que amenaza cubrirlo todo con el empuje desordenado e incontrastable de sus aguas. Los que derrochaban una fortuna ganada en la pol?tica, no se resignaban a volver a su bufete profesional o al taller hac?a tiempo abandonados, sino que tornaban con nuevos mal empleados br?os a reponer lo perdido busc?ndolo siempre con relativo ?xito en el fondo de las esquilmadas arcas p?blicas."


And that's just a sample of his entire book. The work, naturally, was forbidden by the Marines once they disembarked that same year. Couldn't have these natives having notions of their own now, could they?
 
Aug 6, 2006
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Marines in 1916 did not think of themselves as bringers of democracy. Military governments, especially foreign imposed ones, are intolerant of uppity natives.

The DR has had, it seems, more than its share of corrupt politicians. Trujillo was brought in as a pacifier, to bring stability. The DR had borrowed a lot of money to American banks, and wanted it back, with interest, so
stability was the goal of the occupation of both the DR and Haiti.

The professional military in 1916 was largely composed of Southern White boys, who saw people as being either White o black,and nearly all Dominicans were not seen as White.

Censuring the book you quote probably was a waste of effort. It is eloquent but exceedingly wordy. I cannot imagine anyone reading 100 pages of this eloquence. It would be rather like putting icing on a steak.
 
May 12, 2005
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Thanks for reminding me that some posters have no hearts.


10007011_729931800417952_3202155366928218190_n.jpg
 

mofongoloco

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Feb 7, 2013
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So I am a little confused about his fortune stashed inswiss bank accounts. Ramfi's widow inherited. I was reading on google that she set up a trust for the sons. But the details are sketchy. Did the family keep their holdings in DR? Lita, the widow, was bankrupt in 2009 according to the Internet.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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I didn't look like Trujillo at all.
I guess I am more used to seeing him in his uniform with all those flashy medals.

He built up the DR for his own benefit. He was both a builder and a thief. Or vice versa,
He was also a lecher extraordinaire.
 

AlterEgo

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Jan 9, 2009
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So I am a little confused about his fortune stashed inswiss bank accounts. Ramfi's widow inherited. I was reading on google that she set up a trust for the sons. But the details are sketchy. Did the family keep their holdings in DR? Lita, the widow, was bankrupt in 2009 according to the Internet.

As far as I've heard, they did not keep their properties in DR, they reverted to the government. If I'm not mistaken, his grandson was making some comments about trying to recoup some of them.

Lots of his residences were in San Cristobal province where we live. One is now a military academy, I think Casa Caoba is open to tourists, LaToma is open to everyone, etc. The beach on our corner, Playa Najayo, was his favorite domain, he had a large home built on a rise overlooking the beach, and had a stone wall built in the ocean with a boardwalk and lights atop it. House is now a police headquarters [it was empty for decades, with police guarding it], boardwalk and lights were destroyed by a hurricane, but wall is still there.

The house when empty:
54tx84.jpg


Part of the beach with wall - makes a nice bathing area:
k2o4ux.jpg
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Whether you agree with or not very interesting bit of history. Trujillo history / stories good or bad fascinate many. When we visit my in-laws my FIL has many stories about Trujillo which I find interesting.
Dominican authors often complain that publishing books is not profitable, which explains why most Dominicans that actually bother publishing anything (that is not marketed for international audiences) often do so out of personal desire or a sense of duty to enrich the cultural offerings of the country in written form. This might also explain why books published by Dominican cultural organizations are often available in their entirety at their website free of charge, its usually in PDF form, but available they are. And its not as if they wait for the books to sell out, practically as soon as the book is published its available for free at their websites.

There is one topic that does sells very well in Dominican bookstores and often sell out. Any book about Trujillo becomes an instant best seller the moment its published and most Trujillo focused books remain top selling for years. That's the main reason why Angelita's book about her daddy was banned from Dominican bookstores. Even though it was legal to sell the book for a handful of days before the ban was imposed, almost all the book samples for sale in Dominican bookstores were actually sold.

You'd think the people keeping Trujillo alive are the trujillistas, but most Trujillo titles are actually published by his enemies and people that simply don't like the man. Every year new books on Trujillo are published too.
 
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