Undocumented Haitians

[minerva_feliz]

[*]El ni?o disfrutar? de todos los derechos enunciados en esta declaraci?n.Estos derechos ser?n reconocidos a todos los ni?os sin excepci?n alguna ni distinci?n o discriminaci?n por motivos de raza, color, sexo, idioma, religi?n, opiniones pol?ticas o de otra ?ndole, origen nacional o social, posici?n econ?mica, nacimiento u otra condici?n, ya sea del propio ni?o o de su familia.

This is the bottom line here, above the law, which should be adapted so that this criteria is met for all children born in the country. It doesn't matter who else complies or not. As stated, the DR signed this treaty.

Makes me sick when I hear people say they think denying children an identity and education is a "price" that the children have to "pay". Likewise, parents cannot PAY for anything through their children, as they are subjects and not objects. Children do not have to suffer for anything their parents do or have as a condition, they innately have all of the rights enumerated in the CRC.

With that same logic, are the kids shining shoes in the street are "paying" because their parents can't afford to provide for them? Are the girls that marry old men "paying" because their parents didn't look out for their best interests? Are babies born with HIV "paying" because their mom didn't have access to or knowledge about preventing vertical transmission?

 

[miggy99]

To Little too late

The US is also trying to pass a similar law where sons and daughters of illegal immigrants born in the country will not be granted automatic citizenship.

Typical political crap--they wait till the iceberg hits the ship and then think they can save it from sinking. They're just trying to get re-elected.

 

[miggy99]

Absolutely Right--SKING

Because actions speak louder than words.....We don't need to sign anything, that's why the whole world wants to come here. Because ACTIONS speak louder than a bunch of crap on a piece of paper.

SHALENA

I'm a Lawyer from Spain---That's all I had to Read---SKING you got it right !!!!!!!!!

 

[miggy99]

YOU just don't get it

This is the bottom line here, above the law, which should be adapted so that this criteria is met for all children born in the country. It doesn't matter who else complies or not. As stated, the DR signed this treaty.

Makes me sick when I hear people say they think denying children an identity and education is a "price" that the children have to "pay". Likewise, parents cannot PAY for anything through their children, as they are subjects and not objects. Children do not have to suffer for anything their parents do or have as a condition, they innately have all of the rights enumerated in the CRC.

With that same logic, are the kids shining shoes in the street are "paying" because their parents can't afford to provide for them? Are the girls that marry old men "paying" because their parents didn't look out for their best interests? Are babies born with HIV "paying" because their mom didn't have access to or knowledge about preventing vertical transmission?

The parents are to blame --all those years they knew full well or should have known what was going to happen. But let's forget the law. That's what you believe huh?? You can rant all you want about the other stuff---Those scenarios have nothing to do with the LAW

 

[CaptnGlenn]

Since the illegal aliens are already present, but the gov't doesn't want to go the route of mass roundups and deportation, and since everyone seems to think the illegals are unhappy in the D.R.; HERE'S THE SOLUTION... offer them all a free bus trip back to Haiti. Simple, cheap, and no bad press. Hmmm.. but wait... they came to the D.R. of their own volition, and I'm sure knowing in advance what awaited them. My guess is that there won't be a long line waiting for their free ticket.

Do I like the idea of people living in deplorable conditions (or kids not getting a diploma)... absolutely NOT. Did anything I've done cause their problems... I sincerely doubt it. Can I do much to help them, (as a whole)... it's unlikely.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining though. The kids might not have gotten a diploma, but they DID get the education. Given the choice, I'd take the education.

 

[minerva_feliz]

The parents are to blame --all those years they knew full well or should have known what was going to happen. But let's forget the law. That's what you believe huh?? You can rant all you want about the other stuff---Those scenarios have nothing to do with the LAW

They have everything to do with the law. Specifically, this one: http://www.educando.edu.do/Userfiles/P0001\File\Ley_136-03.pdf

Recognizing the rights of children born in the DR to parents without documents is one of the major breeches between the law and the CRC. That's how it works...countries sign this things, they gradually adopt or modify laws to reflect them, and even more gradually they get enforced.

In any case, it's really only a matter of time until this process happens with this situation, even if it is a long time.

miggy99 and others really remind me of the Captain:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/65226679@N04/5939117944/" title="Captain-Cool-Hand-Luke por minerva_f, en Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5939117944_286ae66cc0.jpg" width="478" height="383" alt="Captain-Cool-Hand-Luke"></a>

"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it."

 

[SKing]

The US is also trying to pass a similar law where sons and daughters of illegal immigrants born in the country will not be granted automatic citizenship.

And its about time

SHALENA

 

[SKing]

Sometimes some people do not understand until you break it down
it is AGAINST THE LAW

MOM: Son, my bedroom is off limits. I like my privacy in my bedroom and don't want my things bothered
SON: But, Ooooooh! Your bedroom is bigger and has a better TV
MOM: I know that son but like I said my bedroom is off limits, unless of course you ask me first, then I might let you go in and watch TV
SON: What if you are busy at work? Can I just go in?!?
MOM: What did I say????!!!! Noooo!
silence

MOM: But if you do manage to get in without my permission, you can have the Snickers candy bar that's on my dresser
SON: Oh, boy!!!!!!


How Stupid does that sound? You get it yet?????


SHALENA

 

[pedrochemical]

The kids are not illegal. They were born in the D.R. and can get the Certificado Rosario.
The accusation in the movie is that paperwork is being retriactively detsroyed - that is disgusting even by the morose bigotted standards of some of the more retarded a$$holes who post on this forum.

The mother of the principle subject in the movie was born in the D.R.

Offer them a bus home? You wanker!
She has bever been to Haiti, does not speak the language and has no connection with Haiti.

Capt Glenn & muggy you have no class.
And you have no understanding .

Thank god real Dominicans are generally not like this.

 

[gilligan]

Since the illegal aliens are already present, but the gov't doesn't want to go the route of mass roundups and deportation, and since everyone seems to think the illegals are unhappy in the D.R.; HERE'S THE SOLUTION... offer them all a free bus trip back to Haiti. Simple, cheap, and no bad press. Who's everyone? And if they do all leave who will the Dominicans have to blame for everything bad that happens? Just like in the US, eh?

Hmmm.. but wait... they came to the D.R. of their own volition, and I'm sure knowing in advance what awaited them. My guess is that there won't be a long line waiting for their free ticket. The kids in the documentary were born in the DR and did not come of their own volition.

Do I like the idea of people living in deplorable conditions (or kids not getting a diploma)... absolutely NOT. Did anything I've done cause their problems... I sincerely doubt it. Can I do much to help them, (as a whole)... it's unlikely. I can try in whatever ways I find available to me to increase North American awareness of this problem and we all can invest elsewhere while the Dominicanos figure it out.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining though. The kids might not have gotten a diploma, but they DID get the education. Given the choice, I'd take the education. Yeah, that's awesome - the kids got an education but can't prove it and as the youngest has quickly figured out, it ain't worth the time and expense. /

The main character feels that Haiti doesn't recognize them as Haitian because they were born in the Dominican Republic. Are these kids growing into truly stateless adults?

 

[gilligan]

Sometimes some people do not understand until you break it down
it is AGAINST THE LAW

MOM: Son, my bedroom is off limits. I like my privacy in my bedroom and don't want my things bothered
SON: But, Ooooooh! Your bedroom is bigger and has a better TV
MOM: I know that son but like I said my bedroom is off limits, unless of course you ask me first, then I might let you go in and watch TV
SON: What if you are busy at work? Can I just go in?!?
MOM: What did I say????!!!! Noooo!
silence

MOM: But if you do manage to get in without my permission, you can have the Snickers candy bar that's on my dresser
SON: Oh, boy!!!!!!


How Stupid does that sound? You get it yet?????


SHALENA

You sound like you have all the skills necessary to hold high office in the government of the Dominican Republic.

 

[bob saunders]

You sound like you have all the skills necessary to hold high office in the government of the Dominican Republic.

Sounds like you need help from the professor and Maryanne.

 

[SKing]

Sounds like you need help from the professor and Maryanne.

rotflmao

SHALENA

 

[granca]

It seems to me that this word illegal ought to be more specifically defined. Many Haitians are themselves or are the children/grandchildren of people who did not enter the country illegally, they were "invited" to come for the sugar cane. Most Dominicans are the children/grandchildren etc of persons who were "invited" to come here as slaves. When and where is the cut off point that distinguishes between these two groups of immigrants? Those Haitians who smuggled themselves into the RD are not part of the above groupings.

 

[trangalanga]

I'm a Lawyer from Spain---That's all I had to Read---SKING you got it right !!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm, seems like you have a solid argument there. It will take you far.

 

[trangalanga]

And its about time

SHALENA

Let's have this conversation again in 20 years, see what you say.

I was a foreign exchange student in a little Texas town back in 1989, when I was 15 years old. Back then Hispanics in school (around 40%) didn't even DARE speak Spanish in public. They were publicly called names, including but not limited to "wetback". They felt like they were not living in their own country, even though every town, county, peak, river or beach has a Spanish name in that area, and some of them had been living there for generations, even before the English-speakers arrived. Hell I remember taking the drivers' license test in Spanish (official Texas language), and having to switch to English because the Spanish was an ununderstandable computer translation.

Well guess what: my host family from that time (I love them, but I must say they are big time racists and proud of it) tell me things have changed radically in town and Hispanics are now a force to be considered. They are fuming because Spanish is heard and read more and more every day, etc.

In Spanish we have a saying for this: "No le puedes poner puertas al campo". It means something like "you cannot stop the unstoppable".

 

[shawn27]

It's all about the money... I bet Americans and other ex pat's from other rich countries have NO problems whatsoever getting their paperwork.. SMH.

 

[barker1964]

It's all about the money... I bet Americans and other ex pat's from other rich countries have NO problems whatsoever getting their paperwork.. SMH.

Sorry if I may offend anyone but when we (AMERICNS) go to another country we tend to do it the right way. I do understand that poverty dictates other situations but we all need to respect the laws of the land. I don't care what country you enter they all have laws that we don't agree with....So what are we to do? As law abiding persons we follow the law.
On a side note I see that this debate can rage on and get ugly........Hope it does not.

 

[Chuck T]

Sorry if I may offend anyone but when we (AMERICNS) go to another country we tend to do it the right way. I do understand that poverty dictates other situations but we all need to respect the laws of the land. I don't care what country you enter they all have laws that we don't agree with....So what are we to do? As law abiding persons we follow the law.
On a side note I see that this debate can rage on and get ugly........Hope it does not.

I agree with you barker, we obey the laws in the USA and we are very familiar with undocumented aliens also, you needn't apologize for obeying the laws of the land

 

[pedrochemical]

Chuck,
you are revealing yourself to be less than cool with your comments about Bachata.
Now this nonsense about how you don't break the law?
This naivety will sink you in your D.R. adventure.

What laws did the girl break? She was born in the D.R.
Her father was draughted in legally to work.
Her mother was born in the D.R. in 1957 to a mother who was born in D.R.


The pompous arrogance of people who say that "rules is rules" and just because the rules crap all over some people - well that is just too bad.

Jeesus! Are you a man or are you an automaton merely programmed by your ignorance?

And Barker - lawyer is a dirty word rounbd here - you seem to fit the bill perfectly.

Tell me, my little privelliged lawyer friend, what laws did the girl break?

And Shalena - "about time?"
Come on woman - you can do better than that.