Just what I thought, the issue seems to be more about tolerance of exhibitionism than homosexuality. So if you don't see much public nudity here, does that make the DR nudity-phobe? ; )
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Varying Degrees of Intolerance to Homosexuality - Why?
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Just what I thought, the issue seems to be more about tolerance of exhibitionism than homosexuality. So if you don't see much public nudity here, does that make the DR nudity-phobe? ; )
Among my wife's family many of the younger guys do this, at least the eyebrows, and if anybody insinuated they were homosexuals they would be a persona non grata real soon.
POPNYChic,
Phenomenal post. You've experienced what I've witnessed first hand.
I think those that believe homosexuality is 'not accepted' or 'not common' are living sheltered lives, in a cloistered social community, or just blind to what's going on around them.
I find the acceptance level here to be surprisingly high, at all education & economic levels. It's not just 'tourist areas'. There are many Dominican gays out of the closet - entertainers, attorneys, engineers, business people, and average run of the mill people. These people have family. They have friends. They have co-workers. And they receive support from all of them.
I've been witness to Dominican businessmen of the highest echelon working side by side with known homosexuals. On the flip side, I've been to Rancho Tipicos in the campos where obviously gay men are dancing with each other alongside the most macho of men dancing with their women.
Go to almost any 'straight' venue and there will be gays within the crowd. There are well known gay clubs in the capital and Santiago. They are also in smaller towns such as Puerto Plata, La Vega, and others. You don't see demonstrations outside the doors of these venues.
Are there jokes made? Sure - it's how people deal with areas where they have a level of discomfort. Are the people accepted as human, as business associates, coworkers, and/or friends? Yes.
There are of course portions of the population that consider homosexuality something shameful, perverse, and a sin. But, overall, I'd say Dominicans are as open to letting people live their lives as they like as anywhere I've seen.
Those in their teens and twenties are more comfortable being open about their sexuality with family, at school, and at the workplace. Those in their 30's and 40's have in many instances kept it hidden so long that they feel they couldn't cope with coming out of the closet.
Call a bugarron pajaro and see what happens. Bugarrones in public are "real men" and it is nearly impossible to separate. Look I don't want to rile anyone's feathers but in speaking with bugarrones they considr themselve straight men and only do it for money. Obviously one can say that there are some straight men that would rather die then be with another man and that bugarrones are really like those blk guys in atlana on the "down low" but if any of you are males and live in santo domingo go to el conde and you will see what goes on.
yes but some of them are ....especially ones that protest a lot , the one that know who they are are not so bothered.
I used to bother me a lot when people said I was gay, I thought there must be sign over my head- how does everyone know ? actually they didnt know . but if you are compfortable knowing you are not gay it shouldnt bother you
I used to bother me a lot when people said I was gay, I thought there must be sign over my head- how does everyone know ? actually they didnt know . but if you are compfortable knowing you are not gay it shouldnt bother you
You sound straight to me, JR. Have fun at Clasico's tonight.
milo's a little too familiar with the manicure thing... my gaydar's pinging
I live among Dominicans 24/7. My wife is Dominican. We live within Dominican society. We don't live and socialize within the expat community.
Besides, you don't live in Salt Lake City or the deep southern US, but felt compelled to slur them.
And my statement is absolutely 100% correct: the Dominican society is NOT Politically Correct by any stretch of the imagination. To think otherwise is to not understand the nature of your hosts. One does not have to be Dominican to know that. One just needs even moderate observation skilz...
You may not ~like~ it. But it is what it is...
Chip, I think there is a misunderstanding here, and that BOTH of you are right. I agree that there may be big trouble if a straight man is approached by a homosexual man.
However, what Shaun? was saying is that there are some homosexuals (according to our definition) who do not define themselves as homosexual. They believe that if they are the "pitcher", instead of the "catcher" in the game, they are still straight men. (But WE would still define them as homosexual.)
This "was" also the case in the US at one time. It is also used by some in prison to justify that they can do what they do, but are still "straight".
(I am no expert on any of this, just what I've heard over the years ...)
Here's something written by a Dominican friend/attorney in Santo Domingo. As you can see he is educated. And yes, he is 100% Dominican.
I'm going to try to get a couple of other Dominican friends to post their thoughts here.
Monday, October 11, 2010
It gets better... though not for everybody.
While I'm in the US, I've come across with all sorts of information, and
giving that its mid-term election time, information is everywhere
concerning the issues and interests of all sorts of groups here. One of
the main issues however, as expected, is the issue of gay relationships, legal status and of course, discrimination.
Most notably, and this is something that I've come across since before
coming here, is the issues regarding the wave of gay suicides as a
result of massive bullying in high schools, or taunting as was the case
in Tyler Clementi's suicide, who was broadcasted over the internet
having sex with someone.
In one of my visits to the local Barnes & Noble, there was this medical
journal's research regarding psychopaths and how they can distinguish
between right and wrong and actually stopping from doing the things
they do. Though I'm inclined to think that this would be the case with
bullies, the answer is much more simple: Although they can't (in fact)
stop doing the things they do, its because they're too stupid to do so,
not because they are sick. Anyone who feeds on the pain of others
knows all too well of his own weaknesses in order to perform the acts
they carry on out. But its because we don't act that his conduct carries
on through time.
I think its time to act.
During my days in school I can't say I was bullied, at least not in ways I
couldn't defend myself. Schools I've been into have been too small, too
strict or not strict at in for it to matter. But I can't say I haven't seen
bullying arround me.
Journalist Dan Savage recently started a campaign, and I want to
promote this campaign through this blog. He calls it "It Gets Better".
And it does. Personally High School was the most boring time of my
life, although I learned a lot, it wasn't until just 3 or 4 years ago I
realized nothing of what happened back then matters now. And it
doesn't matter in a way that I look back at the stuff happening back
then and I just laugh at it. Seeing where I am now, and where
my rhetorical bullies are... its just epic.
High school, or school in general, is one of the most important times in
one's life as it is where one shapes an identity for one's self and its
incredible how a single human being can absorb the things being said
and done around him and how all this information can control the way
you think and act (good or bad) and its up to us to decide how all of
this converts us into what we are. In times like now when we have so
many resources it is unacceptable to allow lesser human beings make
you feel less than what you are for being who you are.
Believe it or not, your parents are always there. If not, trust your
brothers and sisters who are older, they've been there done that and
(hopefully) moved on in life to bigger and better things and they can
guide you. And even though I haven't taken that extra step for reasons
personal to me, I know that if I should take that step, I'd have their
support. Live your life to the fullest, be the best at what you do, and
always help others and you'll see nothing you do in your private life will affect how others see you. If it does, it means they really weren't that important to you.
I'm going to try to get a couple of other Dominican friends to post their thoughts here.
Monday, October 11, 2010
It gets better... though not for everybody.
While I'm in the US, I've come across with all sorts of information, and
giving that its mid-term election time, information is everywhere
concerning the issues and interests of all sorts of groups here. One of
the main issues however, as expected, is the issue of gay relationships, legal status and of course, discrimination.
Most notably, and this is something that I've come across since before
coming here, is the issues regarding the wave of gay suicides as a
result of massive bullying in high schools, or taunting as was the case
in Tyler Clementi's suicide, who was broadcasted over the internet
having sex with someone.
In one of my visits to the local Barnes & Noble, there was this medical
journal's research regarding psychopaths and how they can distinguish
between right and wrong and actually stopping from doing the things
they do. Though I'm inclined to think that this would be the case with
bullies, the answer is much more simple: Although they can't (in fact)
stop doing the things they do, its because they're too stupid to do so,
not because they are sick. Anyone who feeds on the pain of others
knows all too well of his own weaknesses in order to perform the acts
they carry on out. But its because we don't act that his conduct carries
on through time.
I think its time to act.
During my days in school I can't say I was bullied, at least not in ways I
couldn't defend myself. Schools I've been into have been too small, too
strict or not strict at in for it to matter. But I can't say I haven't seen
bullying arround me.
Journalist Dan Savage recently started a campaign, and I want to
promote this campaign through this blog. He calls it "It Gets Better".
And it does. Personally High School was the most boring time of my
life, although I learned a lot, it wasn't until just 3 or 4 years ago I
realized nothing of what happened back then matters now. And it
doesn't matter in a way that I look back at the stuff happening back
then and I just laugh at it. Seeing where I am now, and where
my rhetorical bullies are... its just epic.
High school, or school in general, is one of the most important times in
one's life as it is where one shapes an identity for one's self and its
incredible how a single human being can absorb the things being said
and done around him and how all this information can control the way
you think and act (good or bad) and its up to us to decide how all of
this converts us into what we are. In times like now when we have so
many resources it is unacceptable to allow lesser human beings make
you feel less than what you are for being who you are.
Believe it or not, your parents are always there. If not, trust your
brothers and sisters who are older, they've been there done that and
(hopefully) moved on in life to bigger and better things and they can
guide you. And even though I haven't taken that extra step for reasons
personal to me, I know that if I should take that step, I'd have their
support. Live your life to the fullest, be the best at what you do, and
always help others and you'll see nothing you do in your private life will affect how others see you. If it does, it means they really weren't that important to you.
I know, thats what makes is so funny. The contrast. I can visualize a guy spending 10 minutes arching his eyebrows and then next 10 minutes abrillando su pistola. lol
Receiving a manicure may not make you gay... giving a manicure might
lol. Thats like how men hairdressers are viewed by some. Some of them are straight as an arrow, but a man that has this line of work is normally associated with being gay by default.
She's a Woman, so yes she is attracted in that way. But she is definitely not on my long list of Women that I find to be highly attractive, thats for sure.
in the US, THE SOUTH is nowhere near what it was represented to be 40-50 years ago. It can be a wonderful place to live (if not for big city crime) and certainly has a lot to offer that you may not find in the North. (And I was born and raised in the North.)
In the 70's, I was living in Boston, MA (Liberal North) at a time when they had to bring in consultants from North Carolina (South) to show them how to integrate the public school system .......
.
In the 70's, I was living in Boston, MA (Liberal North) at a time when they had to bring in consultants from North Carolina (South) to show them how to integrate the public school system .......
.
This sums up the totality of how I have seen the subject approached in both countries. Washington DC is also a big magnet for gay and lesbian community members. I guess it's all that sexy political power and all. The "DC Drag" race...a bunch of guys racing around Dupont Circle in high heels was just a couple weeks ago and thousands showed up. It was treated in the local media like family entertainment and "gayness" isn't a shock to anyone....except in the "hood".
The principal opponents to the acceptance of "gay marriage" were the churches, mostly Protestant and mostly "minority" with congregation majorities earning below the DC poverty line ($60K). I don't really understand why but I do know that there's a whole lot of hypocrasy going on with these groups. Many of their officers and leading parishoners are known to "take a walk on the wild side". But it is kind of indicative of the other point which you brought up. Most Americans are taught to be uncomfortable with their sexuality, regardless of orientation. It doesn't stop them from having sex. It just makes it "dirty". It also sets them up for all manner of deviant behavior by demonizing the natural expression of affection between the sexes.
You can show a dramatization of a guy with an M-60 gunning down dozens of people on TV, throats being slashed and people being beaten to death but a single "wardrobe malfunction" resulting in the exposure of a single bare (40 year old) Woman's breast and all Hell breaks loose. This has got to be some kind of joke.
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