Jarabacoa unfortunately seems to be an enigma. It would be great if other communities could do a thrid of what they have done. More important than picking up the trash is education the locals and having sufficient public wastebins available. Without the latter two it will only be a short time before the ground is littered again.
- Thread starter shannecart
- Start date
Waste Waste Wate Waste Waste And Waste
Jarabacoa unfortunately seems to be an enigma. It would be great if other communities could do a thrid of what they have done. More important than picking up the trash is education the locals and having sufficient public wastebins available. Without the latter two it will only be a short time before the ground is littered again.
Skippy1, it is the tone that I object to. The subtle disrespect for the people. The thought that we can 'coerce them with music' to 'hand over their waste'. Frankly, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I lose all the value of the possible innovative solution, in trying to swallow the insult to the people. But back to business ..
The normal Dominican household has generally little waste outside of the empty chloro bottles
. These households do not use stacks of polystyrene. Keith says that the trash profile of the average Dominican household is changing and I believe that, but still overall I would say households generate less than the small businesses, i.e., the colmados and the paradas. There is no real method of recycling the polystyrene in the DR. So Pyratt's way of burning it is the only way currently to get rid of the stuff. It is a messy job and certainly not 'a friendly disposal', as you asked for initially.
I will say again, get a few organizations involved, get your friends involved, speak to media ambiente and 'get their approval' to clean up. Go out on a Saturday and clean up. You arrange for bags and gloves (be careful and caution everyone .. we don't know what kind of trash it is). Bag it, transport it to where it can be burnt and have it burnt.
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Skippy1 is being too frank. He is writing down the evidence, and it is not politically correct...
Skippy1 doesn't mean to offend anyone. But Skippy1 writes lives and speaks in a world where straight talking and a sense of humour keeps him sane.
Be as sensitive and as compasionate as you like but the big bad world outside is not a place of just dinner parties, cocktails and sunny barbeques on the beach. Its big bad mean old world where sensitivity counts for nothing when you are trying to compete for scarce resources, jobs and investment. Its a place where you die if your skin colour doesn't fit or you religion is not accepted. Even if you have a Harvard degree and a masters in double speak and deception.
Bold brash tell it like it is ....I am sorry if the truth hurts. But I am more worried about appeasers who pretend they are doing something when if fact they are not doing any more than scratch the surface as a token gesture, to make them feel better. People who would rather score the "I'm in tune with local life bit" than try and help with advice to an obviously concerned party who's only interest is the enviroment and its effect on us ALL.
I have no interest in breaking into elite social groups or making a big splash as a Santiago Celeb..... bedding as many local women as I can and brag about it on the boards like its a badge of honour. Is that the sensitivity you are talking about?
Skippy1
Be as sensitive and as compasionate as you like but the big bad world outside is not a place of just dinner parties, cocktails and sunny barbeques on the beach. Its big bad mean old world where sensitivity counts for nothing when you are trying to compete for scarce resources, jobs and investment. Its a place where you die if your skin colour doesn't fit or you religion is not accepted. Even if you have a Harvard degree and a masters in double speak and deception.
Bold brash tell it like it is ....I am sorry if the truth hurts. But I am more worried about appeasers who pretend they are doing something when if fact they are not doing any more than scratch the surface as a token gesture, to make them feel better. People who would rather score the "I'm in tune with local life bit" than try and help with advice to an obviously concerned party who's only interest is the enviroment and its effect on us ALL.
I have no interest in breaking into elite social groups or making a big splash as a Santiago Celeb..... bedding as many local women as I can and brag about it on the boards like its a badge of honour. Is that the sensitivity you are talking about?
Skippy1
Skippy
I for my part like to "tell it like it is" and I like new ideas too, but if you live here in the DR and speak the language you would know that the idea forcefully making people pick up trash by cutting off their power/music is an idea as ludcrous as they come. Better yet, let's be pragmatists and realist. With that in mind, give us something we can really work with.
regards
chip
I for my part like to "tell it like it is" and I like new ideas too, but if you live here in the DR and speak the language you would know that the idea forcefully making people pick up trash by cutting off their power/music is an idea as ludcrous as they come. Better yet, let's be pragmatists and realist. With that in mind, give us something we can really work with.
regards
chip
Skippy, although many of us share your concerns, your implication that other posters are 'all mouth and no trousers' when it comes to the environment is doing you no favours.
Many of us, and Chris is a prominent example, have done a great deal for the environment and the people here. You're getting advice, based on actual experience, so why the attack? You could try searching on 'La Ensenada', 'Punta Rucia' or 'Reef Watch', for starters.
Many others will tell you - again, from experience - that the locals do not take too kindly to foreigners coming in and telling them how to do it. This is essential knowledge if any initiative is to succeed. The other essential piece of knowledge is that overnight results are not guaranteed. It's a long process, and there are things that we as outsiders can do to help it along, but going in with all guns blazing is counterproductive.
Many of us, and Chris is a prominent example, have done a great deal for the environment and the people here. You're getting advice, based on actual experience, so why the attack? You could try searching on 'La Ensenada', 'Punta Rucia' or 'Reef Watch', for starters.
Many others will tell you - again, from experience - that the locals do not take too kindly to foreigners coming in and telling them how to do it. This is essential knowledge if any initiative is to succeed. The other essential piece of knowledge is that overnight results are not guaranteed. It's a long process, and there are things that we as outsiders can do to help it along, but going in with all guns blazing is counterproductive.
And this applies to any situation here, not just trash solutions. Going in enthusiastically yet humbly seems to achieve things, though. But before one can do that one has to rid oneself of any missionary zeal that one 'knows best' and sometimes that can take new expats a while to achieve. So maybe it is better to wait a while until the anger subsides and the helping effort is genuinely facilitative & enabling? All the while knowing that one's frustration IS understood by other expats.
wow someone I can relate to
Ok Chip, the idea was not to force anyone but more to entice them with the carrot not the stick. Carrot is free electricity and jobs....these people can clean other streets not just their own. The householders would not have to pay either so no probs collecting the money.
I am sure Chris is right that the average household does not produce enough waste but other industries do like sugar cane and other agricultural operations. The city certainly does produce more than enough waste.
The point being and the suggestion is that for a company like Edesur or the others it is a question of how to make a profit. They are in a battle it seems with some barrios where they are cutting power as punishment beatings....its true I lived in such an area where even the paying customers were subjected to 10 hours power blackouts daily.
It is not inconcievable that a financial model can be created that would kill two or more birds with one stone.
Improve rubbish collection improve the enviroment, create jobs attract more investment from outside. Maybe even go for being self sustaining.
The idea of connecting the free supply to the quality and efficientcy of the rubbish collection is a positive not a negative.
Its not a total solution its a start and a model not of my making but is already being used in the world as we speak.
Sorry but I am not a caring sensitive person to the good meaning but maybe misguided individuals who what sticking plaster clean up solutions.
The only way to make it work is to make it pay......simple truth world wide.
If you have the contacts and the money you might think of it as an opportunity not another means of bashing the highly sensitive tigre and his mom. Not seen any I would regard as sensitive mind you more the opposite.
Skippy1
Ok Chip, the idea was not to force anyone but more to entice them with the carrot not the stick. Carrot is free electricity and jobs....these people can clean other streets not just their own. The householders would not have to pay either so no probs collecting the money.
I am sure Chris is right that the average household does not produce enough waste but other industries do like sugar cane and other agricultural operations. The city certainly does produce more than enough waste.
The point being and the suggestion is that for a company like Edesur or the others it is a question of how to make a profit. They are in a battle it seems with some barrios where they are cutting power as punishment beatings....its true I lived in such an area where even the paying customers were subjected to 10 hours power blackouts daily.
It is not inconcievable that a financial model can be created that would kill two or more birds with one stone.
Improve rubbish collection improve the enviroment, create jobs attract more investment from outside. Maybe even go for being self sustaining.
The idea of connecting the free supply to the quality and efficientcy of the rubbish collection is a positive not a negative.
Its not a total solution its a start and a model not of my making but is already being used in the world as we speak.
Sorry but I am not a caring sensitive person to the good meaning but maybe misguided individuals who what sticking plaster clean up solutions.
The only way to make it work is to make it pay......simple truth world wide.
If you have the contacts and the money you might think of it as an opportunity not another means of bashing the highly sensitive tigre and his mom. Not seen any I would regard as sensitive mind you more the opposite.
Skippy1
Sigh......
If you read all the historical postings here you will see i started off looking for help when nothing was forthcoming I became a little disappointed to say the least. I do not want to upset anyone its not my prime function in life.
I at not time ever thought about being a foriegner and telling the people what to do all I wanted was help to get this story to the right department to get something done for the good of everyone not just me. The over whelming apathy drove me to distraction......big time.
For my pain I got a lecture in etiquete. There have been a few off board
conversations you may not know about too.
Skippy1
If you read all the historical postings here you will see i started off looking for help when nothing was forthcoming I became a little disappointed to say the least. I do not want to upset anyone its not my prime function in life.
I at not time ever thought about being a foriegner and telling the people what to do all I wanted was help to get this story to the right department to get something done for the good of everyone not just me. The over whelming apathy drove me to distraction......big time.
For my pain I got a lecture in etiquete. There have been a few off board
conversations you may not know about too.
Skippy1
congratulations on the book
I would like to turn this around if I can ........when the DR come looking for aid and funding from the western countries they would be in a very long line of hopeful ambasadors but never the less with low expectations of success.
The poverty angle is what gets them to the table but the lack of self awareness and self initiative is what gets them the door very quickly.
Like I said many times I am not here because I have to be or because I have no where else to go. I am here to work ad when my work is done I will go home and count my money like most Ex Pat workers. I will take a nice long holiday somewhere exotic with my wife and we will then look for the next project. You (as in the people not personal) have to live like this here and its your problem not mine.
Ihave no missionary Zeal just anger and rage that people can be so stupid and abuse not just the land but the very people who live off of it.
I am done posting on this subject.
Should the river ever get cleaned up by some eco fairy I will let you all know.
Skippy1
I would like to turn this around if I can ........when the DR come looking for aid and funding from the western countries they would be in a very long line of hopeful ambasadors but never the less with low expectations of success.
The poverty angle is what gets them to the table but the lack of self awareness and self initiative is what gets them the door very quickly.
Like I said many times I am not here because I have to be or because I have no where else to go. I am here to work ad when my work is done I will go home and count my money like most Ex Pat workers. I will take a nice long holiday somewhere exotic with my wife and we will then look for the next project. You (as in the people not personal) have to live like this here and its your problem not mine.
Ihave no missionary Zeal just anger and rage that people can be so stupid and abuse not just the land but the very people who live off of it.
I am done posting on this subject.
Should the river ever get cleaned up by some eco fairy I will let you all know.
Skippy1
Yes Skippy, I know.
Back to trash in the DR. I would suggest again to read a lot on the board before you run off half cocked. We all make that mistake initially. There is a lot of material in the forums as well as in the Green Team Blogs. We are fortunate to have Keith who is an authority on this issue. It would be a pity if you compound the initial and very common mistake that we all make and NOT learn from the collective wisdom of the board.
Now, I've given you a good and best practical (in the Dominican Republic) way to deal with the river. In the absence of any other practical method, how about it? I'll be in the DR in a few more weeks (still uncertain of exact dates) and if we can co-ordinate, I'll help pick up. (Getting tired of all the cocktails that I'm consuming and all that Harvard Talk!) In the mean time, try and find out by talking to the local folks who the culprits are and get an idea if the stuff is toxic.
Some other folks could tell you perhaps how to get some television coverage. I never watch so I have no idea who is who in that specific zoo. In terms of newspaper coverage, if we have our part very clean and we know what we are doing, we can get that.
So, in short ...
Gather some eco groups that are interested and can get their constituencies to help - find a Dominican spokesman that would like to make this issue their own.
Gather some gringos that are interested.
Organize in terms of possible permits and authorities and safety of picker-uppers.
Think about television and newspaper coverage.
Find out if the stuff is toxic and what the 'picker-uppers' would need and set this together.
Set a date.
I may be mistaken, but it sounds like he's decided not to take the constructive advice from Keith, Chris, gurabenogringas and others on this thread.
I've seen the newspapers covering this exact issue (the accumulation of rubbish in Arroyo Hondo) over the years, and I believe that local Junta de Vecinos in the area have tried to do something about it. They may well have given up, but someone with new energy might be able to reignite the fight.
I've seen the newspapers covering this exact issue (the accumulation of rubbish in Arroyo Hondo) over the years, and I believe that local Junta de Vecinos in the area have tried to do something about it. They may well have given up, but someone with new energy might be able to reignite the fight.
Just realised some posters are more concerned with their own status than actual advise. This board is quite long and has been running awhile yet the only contributors except Keith who I do have a lot of respect for. are ones who want to pick fights with newbies about etiquete.
It is easy to see the really concerned from the die hard do nothings....its your home you do what you like with it just dont expect me to say nice things to rest of the world about DR and its Green ethics...resident indigenous expat or tourist. The ladies that lunch dont have to worry the cucumber sandwiches will be along soon.
Skippy1
After you with the cucumber sandwiches, Chiri...........:laugh::laugh:
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Ever had the situation where you are writing a long reply to a poster, then have to go back to correct something only to find when you come out and back to the board there are three more replies???????
As for the cucumber sandwiches you can have them all they repeat on me.
You might have a better constitution
Skippy1
Ever had the situation where you are writing a long reply to a poster, then have to go back to correct something only to find when you come out and back to the board there are three more replies???????
As for the cucumber sandwiches you can have them all they repeat on me.
You might have a better constitution
Skippy1
Well, Skippy, whatever. We only have your posts here to go by.
While you probably won't take the trouble to look through the Green Team, forum and blog archives here, hundreds of posters know better than to label others as 'die hard do nothings'. Give me a lecture in etiquette to an unfounded insult any day.
And a Pimms and lemonade, while you're at it, Lambada
While you probably won't take the trouble to look through the Green Team, forum and blog archives here, hundreds of posters know better than to label others as 'die hard do nothings'. Give me a lecture in etiquette to an unfounded insult any day.
And a Pimms and lemonade, while you're at it, Lambada
Skippy1
I have absolutely NO interest in my own status on DR1 - I have upset Chris, Robert, AnnaC plus many more over the years & doubtless will do so again. I have NOT read this thread in total & (wanting to keep an open mind) will not do so in that I am more than interested in what YOU have to say about your past involvement & ideas for the future for the area of your concern!
I have PM'd someone before on this matter of Sosua & Cabarete rubbish/garbage etc & can easily resurrect his responses - like you say, more mouth than trousers & when faced with reality he responded with things like:
"Your ideas are just words - I need ACTION" (which he couldn't attract himself)
"I KNOW my ideas are best & I want to control the whole thing" (then fell by the wayside)
"You are a conceited Old F*^t (probably true but we DO get some things done!!) who knows nothing about the problems of Sosua"!!
PLEASE write me a PM or e-Mail with your (probably now reconsidered) ideas & suggestions & maybe I can put you in touch with one or two people who will be able to influence your ideas into practice. ~ Grahame.
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I did take the time and if you ever get to talk with Keith ask him about my Pm to him about it........dont just think I only talk with people through the visible board. Like I said before its your mess and its your problem.....
Unfounded in your opinion as you say......I have my own views as you have yours but I would not try to suppress your right to hold them or voice them.
Pimms and lemonade come on thats sooooo..... 80's keep up girls the world is passing you by.
Skippy1
Well, Skippy, whatever. We only have your posts here to go by.
While you probably won't take the trouble to look through the Green Team, forum and blog archives here, hundreds of posters know better than to label others as 'die hard do nothings'. Give me a lecture in etiquette to an unfounded insult any day.
And a Pimms and lemonade, while you're at it, Lambada
I did take the time and if you ever get to talk with Keith ask him about my Pm to him about it........dont just think I only talk with people through the visible board. Like I said before its your mess and its your problem.....
Unfounded in your opinion as you say......I have my own views as you have yours but I would not try to suppress your right to hold them or voice them.
Pimms and lemonade come on thats sooooo..... 80's keep up girls the world is passing you by.
Skippy1