What are you going to do?

[BushBaby]

There are a fair number of people that already have my number & KNOW they can rely on me to help sort things out in times of need (& YES Scotty - that DOES include violent crimes, not just personal problems). Many have already used the number & received such help. I also have a list of contacts to call in the event of problems in OUR household - yours is one of them as I recall!

What I AM concerned about in this thread though, is the impression that it is an "Us against THEM" mentality. MY help is for Ex-Pats & local friends alike, someone needs help, they ask for it, they GET it - no matter Dominican, Chinese, German or any other nationality!! I will support Ex-Pat against Ex-Pat (a number of those happen TOO!) Ex-Pat against Dominican & vice versa. I will NOT support an Ex-Pat against a Dominican where I can see that the Ex-Pat has been responsible for the problem, ....... & THAT happens often too!

'Gung-HO', 'Shoot first & ask questions afterwards', 'Have Gun - Will Travel' mentality has never been & never WILL be my approach to sorting problems. So far I have 99% success rate & I hope to continue it that way! Use of friends & influential contacts (the DOMINICAN way) will continue to be my approach UNLESS someone's life is under immediate threat & 'Talk' will not defuse the situation!

I for one will NOT be asking for the support of any Ex-Pat support group that fits the above mentality &/or EXCLUDES the services of Dominicans. I feel such a group would be courting problems for themselves & I am very much in to "Damage Control"! ~ Grahame.

 

[BushBaby]

I cannot answer what will happen if someone else responds. I will tell you that if I respond I will have a couple of Dominican soldiers with me.

I thought you said there would BE NO VIOLENCE!!!!!!!! :cheeky: ~ Grahame.

 

[apostropheman]

I cannot answer what will happen if someone else responds. I will tell you that if I respond I will have a couple of Dominican soldiers with me.

and just what do you think they'll do...wave at the ladrones?

it sounds to me like you're avoiding the inevitable. corner someone and you have to be prepared for their extreme reaction.

i'm also not advocating violence but to think that if you catch someone committing a crime and force them into a fight or flee situation you must be ready in case THEY decide to fight.

you concept has merit but only if you are prepared for all obvious potential outcomes...and you're not if you ignore the likelihood of a violent reaction to your actions.

good luck with this and i hope we don't read about you in the headlines.

 

[DominicanScotty]

LOL ooooops

I thought you said there would BE NO VIOLENCE!!!!!!!! :cheeky: ~ Grahame.

LOL....ahhh yeah right on that one.

 

[DominicanScotty]

Don't worry about me

and just what do you think they'll do...wave at the ladrones?

it sounds to me like you're avoiding the inevitable. corner someone and you have to be prepared for their extreme reaction.

i'm also not advocating violence but to think that if you catch someone committing a crime and force them into a fight or flee situation you must be ready in case THEY decide to fight.

you concept has merit but only if you are prepared for all obvious potential outcomes...and you're not if you ignore the likelihood of a violent reaction to your actions.

good luck with this and i hope we don't read about you in the headlines.

I'll be fine. There will be some that wish to use this system. Obviously you are not one of them. Good luck to you too.

 

[apostropheman]

I'll be fine. There will be some that wish to use this system. Obviously you are not one of them. Good luck to you too.

i'm not against you but i do see the need to balance your posts to protect those that may be blindly following.

if you think the criminals will always just run away or peacefully await the arrival of the authorities you're fooling yourself...and someone in your group will get hurt or worse.

i think i've adequately stated my position so i'll leave you to do your thing.

 

[DominicanScotty]

Thanks

i'm not against you but i do see the need to balance your posts to protect those that may be blindly following.

if you think the criminals will always just run away or peacefully await the arrival of the authorities you're fooling yourself...and someone in your group will get hurt or worse.

i think i've adequately stated my position so i'll leave you to do your thing.

I am not happy with the manner and way which I was "helped" when I became a recent crime victim. Instead of helping me with a bruised hand, bleeding arm and complete stress after I ended up beating the poo poo out of this wacko. I made my way to someone's place where I thought that surely I would get some help. LOL, was I wrong. I was then treated as if I was some stupid misguided child by a fellow ex pat and someone that I thought was a friend. "You should have known better" was my aid. What I didn't need was criticism. I needed a band aid, something to clean my wounds and perhaps some reassurance. I got non of this but a bunch of BS which is what I come to expect now. Some support system that is already in place. With friends like these I don't need enemies. I know who I cannot count on.

I will promise you one thing. I will do whatever I can to help you. I promise you this much and not what I got. I expected better.

 

[apostropheman]

I am not happy with the manner and way which I was "helped" when I became a recent crime victim. Instead of helping me with a bruised hand, bleeding arm and complete stress after I ended up beating the poo poo out of this wacko. I made my way to someone's place where I thought that surely I would gt some help. LOL, was I wrong. I was then treated as if I was some stupid misguided child by a fellow ex pat and someone that I thought was a friend. "You hould have known better" was my aid. What I didn't need was criticism. I needed a band aid, something to clean my wounds and perhaps some reassurance. I got non of this but a bunch of BS which is what I come to expect now. Some support system that is already in place. With friends like these I don't need enemies. I know who I cannot count on.

I will promise you one thing. I will do whatever I can to help you. I promise you this much and not what I got. I expected better.

i too have been a victim of a potentially violent crime...robbed at knife point, and know of many others that also have suffered. fortunately for me my friends have been there to help me...and help others.

the thing that needs to be recognized is that the criminals are desperate and prone to violence. so claiming that violence has no place in your group is flat out wrong...not to mention dangerous. you may not be suggesting violence as the answer but the criminals will attack you in many situations and that needs to be recognized and planned for.

even 10 unarmed guys against 2 armed ladrones is a recipe for disaster. the thieves are not just going to give up. have you seen the inside of a dominican jail...let alone prison?

all i'm saying is you cannot ignore this or someone in your group is going to be hurt...guaranteed. everyone participating needs to really understand what they're getting into.

i'm going to bed now so i really will leave this be...but i hope you think this out better before implementing it.

 

[DominicanScotty]

Looking forward to your help

i too have been a victim of a potentially violent crime...robbed at knife point, and know of many others that also have suffered. fortunately for me my friends have been there to help me...and help others.

the thing that needs to be recognized is that the criminals are desperate and prone to violence. so claiming that violence has no place in your group is flat out wrong...not to mention dangerous. you may not be suggesting violence as the answer but the criminals will attack you in many situations and that needs to be recognized and planned for.

even 10 unarmed guys against 2 armed ladrones is a recipe for disaster. the thieves are not just going to give up. have you seen the inside of a dominican jail...let alone prison?

all i'm saying is you cannot ignore this or someone in your group is going to be hurt...guaranteed. everyone participating needs to really understand what they're getting into.

i'm going to bed now so i really will leave this be...but i hope you think this out better before implementing it.

You seem to know a lot about this and would be a great asset to it. I welcome your insights and value your opinion.

 

[zak023]

You folks on the North Coast are really OUT THERE..You have too much to worry about .You are targets and victims more than the South or Southwest..Mabye it's all the money you all have..The more I read this thread the more content I am living isolated from this by living in the SW a good 45 KM south of Barahona...Haven't heard of a break in or murder yet..
Why not start your own Guardian Angles type club..Everyone can wear those beret caps and nobody will mess with you all thinking you are a secret government outfit..Sort of like neighborhood watch but on a much grander scale....It just might work..end resut........... no more break in's or murders..

 

[DominicanScotty]

Drew you're too funny

You folks on the North Coast are really OUT THERE..You have too much to worry about .You are targets and victims more than the South or Southwest..Mabye it's all the money you all have..The more I read this thread the more content I am living isolated from this by living in the SW a good 45 KM south of Barahona...Haven't heard of a break in or murder yet..
Why not start your own Guardian Angles type club..Everyone can wear those beret caps and nobody will mess with you all thinking you are a secret government outfit..Sort of like neighborhood watch but on a much grander scale....It just might work..end resut........... no more break in's or murders..

Just would like to start some type of system where someone that is having trouble can call someone. That's all..... Then Orson Wells entered the thread and that was it. LOL... I got riled up. However, I think most people got an idea what I would like to see. What I don't want to see is the "sit on your hands" responce. Thats all.

As for you over there only thing that works are "smoke signals"! LOL


Stand up if you wish to help or sit the heck down and keep doing what you've been doing. Nobody will miss you.

To everyone else. Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

 

[Rocky]

To Scottie

I think those who have read this thread, realize that your intentions are good, and that you want to be helpful.
Those of us who live here are painfully aware that the present system is somewhat inadequate.
Discussing the subject can be constructive, but there is a certain protocol.
The following quotes may help explain why you are meeting with so much resistance.

Be honest and answer these questions.

As opposed to our usual dishonest answers?

I am not intersted in blabbity blab blab as usual.

This is your opinion of what DR1 members have to say?

Then Orson Wells entered the thread and that was it.

Ridiculing DR1 members is not constructive.

Just answer that daggone question!

Can anyone answer that question on this wacked out board?

Is this a demonstration of the level of respect you have for other DR1 members?

Many ex-pats have my number and that know they can call me at a moments notice.

Until you live here, they would do better to call someone who does.

The deadbeats? I will make sure the ex pat community knows who they are.

Many people are not willing or capable of coming to the rescue. For this, you would publicly condemn them?

It is my thread

Starting a thread, does not insinuate ownership.

We are meeting resistance to a very good idea.

It appears that some people do not agree with you

If you are not interested in this idea and your sole purpose is to keep shooting this idea down. Perhaps I can make a suggestion. Start your own thread.

Again, if you don't like the idea. Start another thread.

Did you expect only people who agree with you to reply? Should those who don't, reply in another thread?

I will not support the idea of violence here. I will not support violence. I never mentioned violence and violence has no place in this thread or in this idea.

No more BS about violence. It doesn't belong here.

Then Bush questions you on the violence, and you reply.......

LOL ooooops

<HR style="COLOR: #173f96" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by BushBaby
I thought you said there would BE NO VIOLENCE!!!!!!!! :cheeky: ~ Grahame.

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LOL....ahhh yeah right on that one.

Contradicting yourself and bringing violence into the picture.

 

[Rocky]

How this thread is being perceived.

http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-s...-dr1-dominican-republic-one-4.html#post459155
http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-s...-dr1-dominican-republic-one-4.html#post459161
There is a genuine concern about where this thread is going.

 

[Rocky]

Having someone to call, can be useful in certain situations.
Obviously if you are being held at knife/gunpoint, you can't pull out your cellphone to make a call.
I won't speak for others, but in the few instances where I have been called, I brought cops with me, and even the dogs on occasion.
This may be wiser than resorting to vigilante methods.
The repercussions of the wrong approach are highly dangerous.

Having a plan, can save your life.
There is no universal solution.
I live near the cop shop, so it's easy for me to pick up a couple of cops to go to the scene of the crime.
Someone who lives in La Mulata 2, who gets a call for help from his neighbour, needs a different plan.
Being prepared with a good plan could serve you well, but nothing is foolproof.
Even in the US, with quick police response times, crimes still happen.

 

[SantiagoDR]

Responding to Bush Baby's comment

As usual your response to me is "Overboard". The point in my "Have Gun - Will Travel" statement is to advise that I am willing to help and in a situation where there is a threat of great bodily harm to the "good" guy, they know they have someone with the means to help them.

Let me explain it to you this way:

I worked as a police officer over 20 years AND ofcourse carried a gun. I never shot anyone. Just because one has a gun does not mean they will use it wildly. I was taught never to pull a gun unless you plan on using it. It would be a great mistake to use a gun as leverage. What do you do if the other person calls your bluff? Shoot? NO! Best thing would be run, you just &%$#* yourself. If there is no threat of great bodily harm, etc, and the situation does not warrant the use of deadly force, the gun is useless. You know Dominicans like to fight, don't back yourself into a corner. Unless you are a police officer, your responses to a situation differes and the responses of the criminal will most likely differ also. Remember that! Stay safe! Do what you can to help, safely!

Where I live, I am the only "Close" ex-pat. I do not have other ex-pats to help me in a reasonable amount of time, especially in an emergency threat situation. I have only me.

Last year one of my Dominican neighbors was having "Ladrone" problems because his house backs up to a large open field. He called on me to help. I gave him a walkie talkie and kept the radio monitor on at my house. I also have a remote control high power spotlight and remote control zoom camera that can see in nearly total darkness. When he called I used those tools first. Then would go over to assist him with the spotlight lighting up his house. And as those that live here know, waiting for the police is not always an option. By the time they arrived, if ever, the robbery and/or bodily harm would have been long over with.

If you find this WRONG Bush Baby, what can I say?

We don't live among high power people with armed security guards to protect us as "some" of you do.

Look at it this way Bush Baby, just think of me as one of your high power neighbors with armed security guards. Take away that protection you never talk about, would you still feel the same way?????

Rocky, you are very right, everyones responses depends on their individual location and the availability or lack of police assistance in an emergency. If I lived next to a police station, ofcourse my reactions would be different. Some of the responders here don't give us credit for thinking.

NOTE: This thread is not about guns. So don't even go there, it is about the willingness to help by whatever legal means there are. Yes, I would help my neighbors and I have done just that in the past. The neighbors I helped are a young Dominican couple and they were very afraid as their house is isolated up here on the hill. The radios worked great!

 

[Chris]

Methods for a quick response to crime have been discussed on the board before. Learning from the old threads, these issues stand out.

1. Have a plan
2. Test and practice the plan
3. Even it one does not have confidence in the cops, include them.
and perhaps the most important ....
4. Don't discuss the details of the plan on a public board.

Some of us that have lived in the DR for some years, already have crime prevention, assistance and preparedness plans in place. For ourselves, we have a neighborhood watch and if anything happens, the neighbors come immediately. In turn, if there is a neighbor in trouble, we go immediately. All, except one of our neighbors, are middle class Dominican and we have our fair share of military and ex/retired military. Because of this make-up of people, our plan is different than if we lived, say in a Gringo community.

There is a way of doing things however. Quick response units practice their plans. They don't have to think what to do. Their training and practice takes over in relation to the situation.

So, while it is an excellent idea to have a support system on 'speed dial', be very sure that you know what you are doing, that you've discussed your response, that you've practiced your response, and that each member of the support system understand their role.

DominicanScotty, I would suggest that you will have more acceptance for the idea if you call a meeting somewhere on the North Coast for interested people, and discuss the issues thoroughly, and then formulate a plan that is accepted by the group. For some or other reason, I would also suggest that you have a good facilitator in such a meeting, that can handle the tough issues, e.g
- how to respond to violence.
- what to do if there is a shoot-out OK-Corral style.
- who to take with?
- how to interface with the local cops. And a million other questions.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

If crime is becoming as bad as some people claim, perhaps General Candilier will win the next election and you will see tanks in the streets.

Hysteria makes people do things that might regret later. Like becoming involved in vigilantism or electing a thug to high office.

I agree with Rocky. An armed group of ex-pat's could cause more trouble than it solves(I think he pretty much stated everything that I wanted to say).

 

[Snuffy]

Early on in this thread I did mention guns, machetes, etc. Let us cool this thread off by saying that at least initially there will be no response with weapons. That initially there will be a show of friends at the victims home. However, it may be determined that bringing weapons is a good thing under certain rules.

Let us take the case of the young man who recently had to fight off the intruder in his home. OK, he sees the intruder at base of stairs. He then retreats to his room, locks door, and calls members of group. He then grabs weapon and waits for either the intruder to break down door or for friends to arrive.

Now who can honestly say that it would not be correct to come to the aid of this guy in need. Who can say it would not be correct to enter his home and fight if need be. He may be getting killed. There is no rule of law that validates that you wait for the proper authorities to arrive before taking action. It is his life. Might you get hurt. Certainly. Might you hurt the intruder. Certainly.

The alternative is that the young man fights alone and perhaps dies alone.

This has to be considered and it is not for everyone. But there will always be some good men who will rush in and assist. What makes one man become a police officer or a fireman and be willing to risk his life.

But leave it at just a "Show of Friends and Support" at this point.

Scotty, there are of course going to be differences of opinion. There will be some who are vehemently against this type of thing. There will be many who will support it. I personally believe it can be managed properly and be a good thing. Upon moving to that area and discovering such a system, I would feel much better about my safety.

 

[Snuffy]

To the Ogre. You pose the question "If crime is becoming..." Have you not been reading the message board? People have been murdered. What more do you need to convince you?

 

[Rocky]

To the Ogre. You pose the question "If crime is becoming..." Have you not been reading the message board? People have been murdered. What more do you need to convince you?

It's impossible to tell if there is a major increase, as stats are a joke around here, but I can tell you that as many as 15 years ago, we had similar situations, in a similar time frame.