What' Bachata?

[suarezn]

It's nice to see a thread about Bachata where nobody has come out and completely slammed it for being "bad music".
I'm one of those who enjoys the oldies (Luis Segura, Ramon Cordero, Marino Perez, etc), but I also like some of the new generation including Aventura.
I also enjoy older merengues (sandy reyes, young Fernandito Villalona, Conjunto Quisqueya, etc - Old timers know what I'm talking about)...It is unfortunate that the newest crop of merengueros continue to come out with what's basically undanceable music and crappy lyrics. Merengue has been relegated to bump and grind music which will be its demise. It's rapidly being supplanted by Reggetton...
I had no idea HB enjoyed it Bachata...

 

[Golfer]

Here's why

Golfer,

I respect your opinion completely however I beg to differ. To state that "the last three years of Dominican bachata will be remembered as the golden age of Dominican music" to me highly sounds like the voice of in expertise. No offense intended. When I think of the last three years of bachata, anywhere between 2001-2004 using your time period as a reference what first comes to mind is a huge rise in popularity of bachata outside of the DR but the caliber and quality has always been evidenced by the popular and experienced bachateros which I can easily divide the artists into sub categories. A genre such as bachata that as been around for decades is now experiencing international recognition and still has great strides to achieve if the right representatives (meaning artists) promote the genre. Please explain why you believe the last three years are the golden age. I am very curious to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

-Lesley D

As a life long music lover and long time traveler to the DR I always listened to the local music played on the radio and in the bars. Prior to 2000 I found the local music to be a total bore. Mostly merengue, always loud, same driving beat, voices of the singers drownded out by excessive bass, it seemed to be an acquired taste mostly to be appreciated by Dominicans. Really, for me, it all changed with the arrival on the scene of Aventura. What was this coming out of my car radio? Music with a melody? Music with discernible voices? Music with lyrics that could be distinguished? This stuff was fantastic and could be appreciated by someone from a different culture! I soon learned that this was Bachata and that many had pre-dated Aventura in this genre. As I gathered information on Bachateros like Frank Reyes and Anthony Santos I soon discovered that as a rule the newer the Bachata the better. Songs like Voy pa ya and Bachata Rosa might hit the heartstrings of some drunken chopo who's just been dumped but they can't compare to Carta de Verano or Amiga Veneno. In fact, there are so many fantastic Bachatas produced between 2000-04 that there is no way that that creativity can be sustained, especialy since these artists seem virtually unsupported with a reliable financial base. So the next time you listen to Intentalo Tu or Ay Ombe, realize that it ain't getting any better that this. All genres of music have there golden era, when you're in it you think that it will go on forever but it is my opinion that when Bachata is discussed 50 years from now this will have its golden age.

 

[Marianopolita]

Love & Hate may be popualr now...pero no al principio...

DeQueTuPriva,

"Obsesi?n" supposedly is the most successful single bachata hit en los ?ltimos tiempos. An from that hit the whole album "We Broke Rules" became a success for Aventura. Love & Hate may be just as successful but does not seem to carry the same level of international recognition as Obsesi?n and "We Broke the Rules" thus my reference to "it came and it went". I don't doubt what you are saying but the visibility that Aventura had with their first album in my opinion does not compare to their second album-Love & Hate. I still see programas daily and weekly (Dominican TV- El Show del mediod?a in particular) and whenever they show Aventura there still seems to be more emphasis on songs from We Broke the Rules than Love & Hate.

En mi opini?n creo que el primer disco se peg? m?s r?pidamente por lo tanto no me parece que el segundo sea tan exitoso.... I could be wrong.

-Lesley D

Love and Hate came and went where? Many of the songs from that album were leaked prior to its official release, but even given that circumstance, Aventura has remained in popular demand. The most celebrated indication of their continued popularity is the fact that earlier this year, they packed the United Palace theatre in New York by themselves. When I was in Santiago (I was there for a period of several months), practically every song on that album (studio recordings and live versions) was in heavy rotation. The Roof, HTV and a host of Dominican channels showed the hermanita video non stop. If anything, the fact that they give concerts in California and aveces quiero llorar gets airplay on stations that traditionally relegate "tropical" music three hour weekend tropical music shows, suggests that they've been even more successful with Love and Hate.

 

[Jozee74]

Golfer

As a life long music lover and long time traveler to the DR I always listened to the local music played on the radio and in the bars. Prior to 2000 I found the local music to be a total bore. Mostly merengue, always loud, same driving beat, voices of the singers drownded out by excessive bass, it seemed to be an acquired taste mostly to be appreciated by Dominicans. Really, for me, it all changed with the arrival on the scene of Aventura. What was this coming out of my car radio? Music with a melody? Music with discernible voices? Music with lyrics that could be distinguished? This stuff was fantastic and could be appreciated by someone from a different culture! I soon learned that this was Bachata and that many had pre-dated Aventura in this genre. As I gathered information on Bachateros like Frank Reyes and Anthony Santos I soon discovered that as a rule the newer the Bachata the better. Songs like Voy pa ya and Bachata Rosa might hit the heartstrings of some drunken chopo who's just been dumped but they can't compare to Carta de Verano or Amiga Veneno. In fact, there are so many fantastic Bachatas produced between 2000-04 that there is no way that that creativity can be sustained, especialy since these artists seem virtually unsupported with a reliable financial base. So the next time you listen to Intentalo Tu or Ay Ombe, realize that it ain't getting any better that this. All genres of music have there golden era, when you're in it you think that it will go on forever but it is my opinion that when Bachata is discussed 50 years from now this will have its golden age.

More songs that wont be forgotten is Anthony Santos "Tengo una Haula de Oro" and Joe Veras "Carta de Verano" great lyrics.

 

[britishgirl]

BritishGirl,

The above record company has released a CD showcasing Dominican roots music, including bachata. In my humble opinion it is one of the best, and definitely worthwhile looking out for. HMV or Virgin in Britain are likely to be carrying it. One of my favorites on the CD is "Nuestros Lazos" by Ram?n Cordero, one of the old timers of bachata. (Or maybe I'm biased, as he once was a guest in my father-in-law's house in the DR).

Thanks! Naomi xx

 

[britishgirl]

Some people on this thread been mentionin latin rap. what's that? is it as good as normal rap, or more or less the same? i'm loving aventura, they're great, which is a bit different to what i usually listen to, hip-hop and rap(the best!!! : :classic: )the way some people were saying that bachata was rubbish i thought it was like hiphop?rap or something, or lots of swearing and stuff, but i haven't heared any of that! :cheeky: People say about the lyrics in bachata are rubbish, but's alrite 'cause I don't really understand it all anyway! So I'll keep listening to it!!! THANKS! Naomi xx

 

[Jozee74]

spanish rap

Some people on this thread been mentionin latin rap. what's that? is it as good as normal rap, or more or less the same? i'm loving aventura, they're great, which is a bit different to what i usually listen to, hip-hop and rap(the best!!! : :classic: )the way some people were saying that bachata was rubbish i thought it was like hiphop?rap or something, or lots of swearing and stuff, but i haven't heared any of that! :cheeky: People say about the lyrics in bachata are rubbish, but's alrite 'cause I don't really understand it all anyway! So I'll keep listening to it!!! THANKS! Naomi xx

I wouldnt call it spanish rap, more like Spanish Reggae which has become very popular. The Hip Hop and R & B stations even put a spot where they play reggeton for an hour. The beats and rythems are danceable and that is what everybody is into no one cares what about the lyrics.

 

[Marianopolita]

Thanks...

Golfer,

Thanks for the clarification. However, I still think it's too early to say that the Golden Age of bachata has been the last three years and that going forward we will not see equivalent good bachata. If anything due to competition in "the world bachata" these artists have to come up with quality music or else they don't stand a chance of surviving. This is not a problem for already recognized bachateros like Joe Veras (Carta de verano, Int?ntalo t?, Qu? bien lo hiciste etc.) and Raulin R (Ay Ombe and his whole repertoire) as you mentioned. I guess time will tell.

-Lesley D

As a life long music lover and long time traveler to the DR I always listened to the local music played on the radio and in the bars. Prior to 2000 I found the local music to be a total bore. Mostly merengue, always loud, same driving beat, voices of the singers drownded out by excessive bass, it seemed to be an acquired taste mostly to be appreciated by Dominicans. Really, for me, it all changed with the arrival on the scene of Aventura. What was this coming out of my car radio? Music with a melody? Music with discernible voices? Music with lyrics that could be distinguished? This stuff was fantastic and could be appreciated by someone from a different culture! I soon learned that this was Bachata and that many had pre-dated Aventura in this genre. As I gathered information on Bachateros like Frank Reyes and Anthony Santos I soon discovered that as a rule the newer the Bachata the better. Songs like Voy pa ya and Bachata Rosa might hit the heartstrings of some drunken chopo who's just been dumped but they can't compare to Carta de Verano or Amiga Veneno. In fact, there are so many fantastic Bachatas produced between 2000-04 that there is no way that that creativity can be sustained, especialy since these artists seem virtually unsupported with a reliable financial base. So the next time you listen to Intentalo Tu or Ay Ombe, realize that it ain't getting any better that this. All genres of music have there golden era, when you're in it you think that it will go on forever but it is my opinion that when Bachata is discussed 50 years from now this will have its golden age.

 

[Marianopolita]

Josee74,

You mentioned a fabulous song there (although it's a remake)- "La jaula de oro". Antony Santos is just exemplary when it comes to bachata and I always tell people who ask me about Antony S:

Muchos artistas arrancan pero pocos llegan. El hecho de que el Mayimbe ha logrado mantenerse arriba por muchos a?os es impresionante. Su estilo es ?nico e incomensurable.

-Lesley D

More songs that wont be forgotten is Anthony Santos "Tengo una Haula de Oro" and Joe Veras "Carta de Verano" great lyrics.

 

[Jozee74]

Thank you...

Josee74,

You mentioned a fabulous song there (although it's a remake)- "La jaula de oro". Antony Santos is just exemplary when it comes to bachata and I always tell people who ask me about Antony S:

Muchos artistas arrancan pero pocos llegan. El hecho de que el Mayimbe ha logrado mantenerse arriba por muchos a?os es impresionante. Su estilo es ?nico e incomensurable.

-Lesley D

Thanks for the clarification. Anthony Santos will be doing a performance in RI for the first time ever this weekend I think all of the dominicans in RI will be attending.

Es verdad de Fernandito el es unico. Y yo pensaba que Sergio Vargas iba por el mismo camino pero parece que se desvio :surprised

 

[Music]

I agree Lesley I do like the Love and Hate album but I personally like there first album better they had a lot of good songs on the album. And Obsesion was a crazy hit!
But I like Raulin Rodrigues, Joe Vera, Elvis Martinez and many others much better still!! I find all the new Bachata groups have good music but the older artists the Bachata is different something in the music that makes me feel it so much different. I don't know if anyone knows what I'm trying to say but my cousin agrees with me there are certain songs that make us go crazy on the dance floor because we get this overwelming feeling to dance. :classic: Hope I don't sound cheesy but we just feel the music and have to dance. We find a lot of older songs give us the that feeling anyone understand me or do I just sound like some crazy chica :laugh: ???

DeQueTuPriva,

"Obsesi?n" supposedly is the most successful single bachata hit en los ?ltimos tiempos. An from that hit the whole album "We Broke Rules" became a success for Aventura. Love & Hate may be just as successful but does not seem to carry the same level of international recognition as Obsesi?n and "We Broke the Rules" thus my reference to "it came and it went". I don't doubt what you are saying but the visibility that Aventura had with their first album in my opinion does not compare to their second album-Love & Hate. I still see programas daily and weekly (Dominican TV- El Show del mediod?a in particular) and whenever they show Aventura there still seems to be more emphasis on songs from We Broke the Rules than Love & Hate.

En mi opini?n creo que el primer disco se peg? m?s r?pidamente por lo tanto no me parece que el segundo sea tan exitoso.... I could be wrong.

-Lesley D

 

[DeQueTuPriva]

Some people on this thread been mentionin latin rap. what's that? is it as good as normal rap, or more or less the same? i'm loving aventura, they're great, which is a bit different to what i usually listen to, hip-hop and rap(the best!!! : :classic: )the way some people were saying that bachata was rubbish i thought it was like hiphop?rap or something, or lots of swearing and stuff, but i haven't heared any of that! :cheeky: People say about the lyrics in bachata are rubbish, but's alrite 'cause I don't really understand it all anyway! So I'll keep listening to it!!! THANKS! Naomi xx

Latin rap is hip hop from Latin America, not necessarily reggaeton. Hip hop in Colombia, Cuba, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico etc. tends to be very socially conscious, sort of like American hip hop 20+ years ago. Also, Cuban rap music, for example, tends to incorporate elements of Cuban culture (i.e. use of Cuban slang; sampling Cuban music), thereby making the music uniquely Cuban.

Again, there are movies that document this phenomenon. Two that come to mind are Resistencia: Hip hop en Colombia (I believe this is a british documentary) and Fala Tu.

As for bachata lyrics being "rubbish", not all bachata is romantic. Some people are turned off by songs by Blas Duran, Tony Santos, Luis Vargas, and even El Mayimbe because of the sexual innuendo or the references to drinking. Also, there was an article in Listin Diario a few months ago about whether or not bachata lyrics incite violence against women or misogyny or something like that.

 

[Marianopolita]

Jozee74,

I am referring to Antony S "en cuanto a su estilo ?nico".

Don't forget both are referred to as Mayimbes: uno de la bachata and el otro del merengue.

-Lesley D

Thanks for the clarification. Anthony Santos will be doing a performance in RI for the first time ever this weekend I think all of the dominicans in RI will be attending.

Es verdad de Fernandito el es unico. Y yo pensaba que Sergio Vargas iba por el mismo camino pero parece que se desvio :surprised

 

[Jozee74]

Lesley

Jozee74,

I am referring to Antony S "en cuanto a su estilo ?nico".

Don't forget both are referred to as Mayimbes: uno de la bachata and el otro del merengue.

-Lesley D

I understood what you was saying about Anthony Santos, he is definately unique.

I was also mentioning that el Mayimbe del merengue has been onethat has had so many years of exito en su carrera con musica que tiene sentido. it doesnt matter what age everyone likes Fernandito even the teenagers today (and you know how they feel about old music....no appreciation)

 

[Jozee74]

Question

Latin rap is hip hop from Latin America, not necessarily reggaeton.

How would you catergorize Tego Calderon (if you know who he is)? would you consider his music spanish rap or reggeaton??

 

[DeQueTuPriva]

Latin rap is hip hop from Latin America, not necessarily reggaeton.

How would you catergorize Tego Calderon (if you know who he is)? would you consider his music spanish rap or reggeaton??

I believe it was in Fader magazine that Tego said something like he used to rap in Spanish, but then he started getting into reggaeton. El Enemy de los Guasibiri contains some of his older stuff that is definitely "rap" and not reggaeton. Same goes for some of the songs on Daddy Yankee's Barrio Fino.

I specifically didn't mention Puerto Rico in the Latin rap category because Puerto Rican playero and reggaeton is older and at a different stage than rap in other Latin American countries. You don't read interviews with Daddy Yankee or Tego Calderon complaining about how commercialized American hip hop culture lacks substance and is too much about "the bling". That's because Puerto Rican hip hop culture is more influenced by the trends in current American hip hop culture. It's evident in their slang, and their beats, the way they dress, and the things they talk about.

 

[Marianopolita]

Jozee74,

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo.

Fernandito V seems to attract followers of all ages and as you said usually teenagers do not appreciate older music. I suppose it has to do with the fact that his lyrics are pure; it's good romantic merengue that's still danceable. Fernandito V is an artist that has proven himself although he almost through his career away and as result produced his most expressive album regarding his near failure "Soy un hombre feliz". Remember that one? It is one of my favorites along with "El ni?o mimado" and "Mal acostumbrado" (he was robbed of a Grammy Award with that one in my opinion).

-Lesley D

I understood what you was saying about Anthony Santos, he is definately unique.

I was also mentioning that el Mayimbe del merengue has been onethat has had so many years of exito en su carrera con musica que tiene sentido. it doesnt matter what age everyone likes Fernandito even the teenagers today (and you know how they feel about old music....no appreciation)

 

[Marianopolita]

Music,

I understand very well what you are saying. The only conclusion I can draw from the way you distinguished between the old and the new has to do with the lyrics perhaps and then most of all the acoustics. Nothing beats the sound of the "requinto" guitar that is heard in the older genres of bachata, which I believe most modern artists have done away with. Don't quote me on that but I don't hear it at all and it's prevalent in older bachata. If you like older bachata I strongly suggest that you try music from Luis Segura (that will really test your appreciation for the older music). All his albums are good but the two I always go back to are: "Como Yo" released in 1998 and Hasta Cuando 1996. As well an artist that has not been mentioned thus far is "He Pepo". He definitely attracts a more mature crowd but I like his bachata as well. Two albums of his I recommend are: "Habla con ella" and "Por la maceta".

-Lesley D

I agree Lesley I do like the Love and Hate album but I personally like there first album better they had a lot of good songs on the album. And Obsesion was a crazy hit!
But I like Raulin Rodrigues, Joe Vera, Elvis Martinez and many others much better still!! I find all the new Bachata groups have good music but the older artists the Bachata is different something in the music that makes me feel it so much different. I don't know if anyone knows what I'm trying to say but my cousin agrees with me there are certain songs that make us go crazy on the dance floor because we get this overwelming feeling to dance. :classic: Hope I don't sound cheesy but we just feel the music and have to dance. We find a lot of older songs give us the that feeling anyone understand me or do I just sound like some crazy chica :laugh: ???

 

[Music]

I think your right it's the guitar thank you!! The sound is much different in the older music! I will listen you the albums you suggested thanks! I can never get enough of Bachata music love it!!

Music,

I understand very well what you are saying. The only conclusion I can draw from the way you distinguished between the old and the new has to do with the lyrics perhaps and then most of all the acoustics. Nothing beats the sound of the "requinto" guitar that is heard in the older genres of bachata, which I believe most modern artists have done away with. Don't quote me on that but I don't hear it at all and it's prevalent in older bachata. If you like older bachata I strongly suggest that you try music from Luis Segura (that will really test your appreciation for the older music). All his albums are good but the two I always go back to are: "Como Yo" released in 1998 and Hasta Cuando 1996. As well an artist that has not been mentioned thus far is "He Pepo". He definitely attracts a more mature crowd but I like his bachata as well. Two albums of his I recommend are: "Habla con ella" and "Por la maceta".

-Lesley D

 

[britishgirl]

Latin rap is hip hop from Latin America, not necessarily reggaeton. Hip hop in Colombia, Cuba, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico etc. tends to be very socially conscious, sort of like American hip hop 20+ years ago. Also, Cuban rap music, for example, tends to incorporate elements of Cuban culture (i.e. use of Cuban slang; sampling Cuban music), thereby making the music uniquely Cuban.

Again, there are movies that document this phenomenon. Two that come to mind are Resistencia: Hip hop en Colombia (I believe this is a british documentary) and Fala Tu.

As for bachata lyrics being "rubbish", not all bachata is romantic. Some people are turned off by songs by Blas Duran, Tony Santos, Luis Vargas, and even El Mayimbe because of the sexual innuendo or the references to drinking. Also, there was an article in Listin Diario a few months ago about whether or not bachata lyrics incite violence against women or misogyny or something like that.

Thanks. It sounds cool, I'm gonna listen 2 sum!