What is the average IQ of dominicans?

[jsizemore]

not racial

I feel this question is not racial but circumstancial. Look at the old union towns of America. Once upon a time some one could drop out of school and make wages on par with college educated white color workers. Then the the bottom dropped out. Then all of a sudden the parent of those kids from the rust belt started scrambling to send there kids to college.
The difference is there is a benifit that is tangible where as for a Dominicano there is not. This is a cultural issue and not a racial issue. The culture of a patron sociaty is to keep the peasents unenlightend so as not to be able to organise. The dominican sosciaety is paying the price. When is black society it is perceieved as selling out to leanr the white mans schooling then you have issues. Not racial issues but cultural issues.
The Jesse Jacksons of the worlds power base is based on the perception of being held back. The social workers jobs are based on how many people have the need. Get rid of the need and lose your job.
John

 

[mondongo]

I assert that Pib's IQ is significantly higher than Carl's.

 

[Pib]

Re: Say pib

I challenge your assertion!Isn't this subject something that routinely comes up in academic cirlcles? .I mean,why some groups do ok,others excell and some groups are under-achievers.

Groups of what? Who are these people who are "underachievers"? And what is "underachieving"? And what does "Dominican" have to do with it?

The question would be valid if:

* The IQ was a non-cultural-biased, significant and objectively measured standard (like height or weight).

* If there was any indication that a person's IQ is linked to his/her race, cultural group or even the region in which he or she was born.

* If there was any indication that a person's IQ is linked to said person's ability to function in a civilized society.

I have yet to hear of any conclusive research that has indicated that any of these 3 things are true. If you do believe any of the above is true then your question is not relevant as the debate would be whether it is true or not for ALL groups. If you don't believe the above then your question is not relevant because you would believe that, as XR said, Dominicans' average IQ is... duh! 100!

So what is it?

 

[Texas Bill]

I recall questions similar to the ones posed being asked in Psychology 101 in the 1940's at the University of Houston. Even then there wasn't a general consus amoung the professors teaching the subject of Psychology. It seems that each had a different idea of what an IQ test should consist of and just what information should be tested.
The resulting consensus that I have observed in the subject being debated is this: We still don't know why there should be an index to intelligence quotient.
After all, people, it is only a number resulting from weighted questions which seemingly have no connection with the real world. Mine has hovered between 143 and 147 since I was 19 years of age, but I know I'm a dumb-ass.

Texas Bill

 

[carl ericson70]

Re: Re: Say pib

Groups of what? Who are these people who are "underachievers"? And what is "underachieving"? And what does "Dominican" have to do with it?

The question would be valid if:

* The IQ was a non-cultural-biased, significant and objectively measured standard (like height or weight).

* If there was any indication that a person's IQ is linked to his/her race, cultural group or even the region in which he or she was born.

* If there was any indication that a person's IQ is linked to said person's ability to function in a civilized society.

I have yet to hear of any conclusive research that has indicated that any of these 3 things are true. If you do believe any of the above is true then your question is not relevant as the debate would be whether it is true or not for ALL groups. If you don't believe the above then your question is not relevant because you would believe that, as XR said, Dominicans' average IQ is... duh! 100!

So what is it?

Your quetion compelled me to do a bit of poking-around and although data on the average IQs of dominicans is rather scarce,most sources indicated it to be around 84.I found no specific sources that differenciated the IQs of white,black or mulatto dominicans.So 84 is the national average.

Check the following link it, gives IQ stats for the DR,it's neighbors and the rest of the world as well:

http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.htm

Carl

 

[Texas Bill]

Carl;

You may have noticed...your link got rubbed out...

Try again.

Texas Bill

 

[carl ericson70]

Good people

Everyone,
As I mentioned earlier-I'm far from thoroughly knowledgeable on IQ matters and I must retract a few earlier statements.The average IQ of asian indians(living in asia)is 81 and not above the average american IQ.Also,only a handfull of asian countries have average IQs above 100:Japan,north korea ,south korea and thailand.

Carl

 

[Pib]

From your source

I proposed that the increases in intelligence have been caused by improvements in nutrition.

That is barely the only thing I seem to agree with him.

I will elaborate once I finish reading the site you linked.

 

[carl ericson70]

Texas bill,
It's alive and kickin now!

Carl

 

[Pib]

Any source that includes the word "Eugenics" should immediately be analyzed more thoroughly if not entirely dismissed beforehand. Dr. Lynn, from whom you?ve taken the idea you proposed in the OP has a very myopic view of the world. I can?t dismiss him as a psychologist, but he sure as hell forgot that Europeans were at the bottom of the barrel some 4000 years ago, and so was Asia a few thousand years back, I am sure not in account of their ?inferior? intelligence.

He also volunteers that ?The explanation for the higher IQ of American blacks is that they have about 25 per cent of Caucasian genes and a better environment? which in a serious debate shouldn?t be dismissed just on account of sounding like a load of crap but should be seen under a microscope as it sounds suspiciously like racism.

Dr Lynn does not reveal what methodology he used or what the size of the sample he used for his comparison. A quick google search on Dr. Lynn reveals that to do his comparison he used the The Standard Progressive Matrices test. The American Phsycollogy Association has this opinion on the The Standard Progressive Matrices test:

Raven's Progressive Matrices, for example, is one of several nonverbal intelligence tests that were originally advertised as "culture free," but are now recognized as culturally loaded.

To conclude, I leave you with this from the same APA article:

As Sternberg has pointed out, lay theories of intelligence often lack the precision of scientific theories, but they can suggest new avenues of research, shed light on how people use intelligence in everyday life and highlight aspects of intelligence that scientific theories have ignored. Studying intelligence in different cultures can thus be a way of challenging conventional Western ideas about intelligence.

 

[mondongo]

Pib...you stole my thunder....here is another quote from this quack Dr Lynn:

"...modern populations have been deteriorating genetically in respect of health, intelligence and the personality trait of conscientiousness."

I must admit that I really busted a gut laughing out loud at that one...our "conscientiousness" genes are deteriorating?...what a buffoon!!!!

Another totally erroneous statement: " It has long been known that the average IQ of blacks in the United States is approximately 85." The avarage IQ of blacks in the USA has been rising consistently over the last 1/2 century. As those of you with internet access already know, the IQ of blacks today is about the same as that of whites hafl century ago. What does that tell you? Figure it out!!....this is a thread about IQ....after all!!

Somebody forgot to check Dr Lynn's IQ at the door.

 

[ltsnyder]

link to a ship of fools

Carl, read the postulations and theroies of the link you sent us too. Before we comment t=on the person and what they think . . . . what do you think? Do you think any of those theries hold any water? Do you feel the IQ test is reliable? I assume you are speaking from a point of ignorance, because you constantly remind us you are, as you correct your ethnic disparity beliefs. I guess the question for me should be, if you had false beliefs to start with, how might you have gotten them, and if you don't know how . . . . . . . .

The hardest thing to measure is IQ, when you study the results are you seeing the people or the test it's self being reveiled?

-Lee

 

[carl ericson70]

Any source that includes the word "Eugenics" should immediately be analyzed more thoroughly if not entirely dismissed beforehand. Dr. Lynn, from whom you?ve taken the idea you proposed in the OP has a very myopic view of the world. I can?t dismiss him as a psychologist, but he sure as hell forgot that Europeans were at the bottom of the barrel some 4000 years ago, and so was Asia a few thousand years back, I am sure not in account of their ?inferior? intelligence.

He also volunteers that ?The explanation for the higher IQ of American blacks is that they have about 25 per cent of Caucasian genes and a better environment? which in a serious debate shouldn?t be dismissed just on account of sounding like a load of crap but should be seen under a microscope as it sounds suspiciously like racism.

Dr Lynn does not reveal what methodology he used or what the size of the sample he used for his comparison. A quick google search on Dr. Lynn reveals that to do his comparison he used the The Standard Progressive Matrices test. The American Phsycollogy Association has this opinion on the The Standard Progressive Matrices test:

To conclude, I leave you with this from the same APA article:

I know what you mean and you've some valid points.However,I didn't post the link because I completely agree with DR lynn's theories.I posted it because he listed the average IQs for just about every country in the world.

Trust me,I'm aware that issues & studies revolving around IQ differences among the races are a magnet for people with racist agendas to serve.

Carl

 

[carl ericson70]

Re: link to a ship of fools

Carl, read the postulations and theroies of the link you sent us too. Before we comment t=on the person and what they think . . . . what do you think? Do you think any of those theries hold any water? Do you feel the IQ test is reliable? I assume you are speaking from a point of ignorance, because you constantly remind us you are, as you correct your ethnic disparity beliefs. I guess the question for me should be, if you had false beliefs to start with, how might you have gotten them, and if you don't know how . . . . . . . .

The hardest thing to measure is IQ, when you study the results are you seeing the people or the test it's self being reveiled?

-Lee

Amigo! scroll back and you will see that I clearly stated that I think that there's way too many variables in the equation-to give much credence to the notion of inate mental superiority or inferiority among the races and ethnicities of mankind.Not to mention the accuracy of IQ tests period!

I know differences in IQ exists,but I doubt that genetics is a major factor.I'm more inclined to think that culture,education,environment,nutrition etc..are key variables.

Comprende?
Carl

 

[El Pachi]

I would say the average IQ for Dominicans currently living in the DR, regardless of education, nutrition and/or health social class is 101.

You all fail to notice that Dominicans possess a high level of common sense, which is probably the best tool humans have available when it comes to reasoning (and many fail to use). You don't need to tell a Dominican that if you warm up food in a microwave, it will come out hot...

Obviously, race is not a factor... ancient Egyptians and Hindus had black genes in their DNA pool, and yet they were able to build extraordinary pyramids, formulate complex mathematical and astronomical calculations and rich, advanced cultures that modern science is yet not able to fully understand. Mayans, Incans and Aztec are another example of great achievement by "minor" races.

Intelligence is related to genetics, nutrition/health, social background, one's personal desire of achievement and a little bit of luck.

If you are the child of poor, ignorant parents, with 3 square meals every 5 days, who thinks that's the way life is and nothing is going to change that, chances are you are going to be one stupid sumbitch.

Dominicans are average: many strive to just get money, without obtaining an education; others want to get educated, even if they don't possess the resources to do so. Just open your eyes and look for both groups.

Comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jsizemore]

think about it

In a society where school supplies are unavailable to most teachers and the average house does not have a den let alone book shelves how can we expect an educated populace? In my family we got two types of gifts as teenagers. Clothes and books were our main gifts.
I can remember a trip to Hong Kong in 1988 and the only thing I can say I remember about the whole trip that was truly enjoyable was an afternoon me and one of my buddies (a Jew by the Way) spent at a bookstore.
The children are sent to the campos to live with the prima/tia or whoever and they are fed like puppies rather than nurtured and read too.
A gold trinket is considered a good gift and a book is looked at as a burden. The gold can be pawned so its value is considered higher.
My Honduran ex sister in law one time was shocked that she was in the living room watching TV and my mother, brother, myself and my cousin were sitting on the front porch not saying a word and all of were reading separate books. Not a word was spoken to each other for maybe three hours. I had just got in for the first time in about two years and we had swapped out books.
I feel it is %100 cultural not genetic.
John

 

[jsizemore]

ok I am hubled

When I was a Recruiter for the Navy an interesting statistic that came up. over 75% of all high school drop outs scored in the top 25% percent of there age groupd on the ASVAB test.
Joust food for thought.
John

 

[Pib]

Re: think about it

In a society where school supplies are unavailable to most teachers and the average house does not have a den let alone book shelves how can we expect an educated populace? In my family we got two types of gifts as teenagers. Clothes and books were our main gifts.
I can remember a trip to Hong Kong in 1988 and the only thing I can say I remember about the whole trip that was truly enjoyable was an afternoon me and one of my buddies (a Jew by the Way) spent at a bookstore.
The children are sent to the campos to live with the prima/tia or whoever and they are fed like puppies rather than nurtured and read too.
A gold trinket is considered a good gift and a book is looked at as a burden. The gold can be pawned so its value is considered higher.
My Honduran ex sister in law one time was shocked that she was in the living room watching TV and my mother, brother, myself and my cousin were sitting on the front porch not saying a word and all of were reading separate books. Not a word was spoken to each other for maybe three hours. I had just got in for the first time in about two years and we had swapped out books.

Thank you for sharing your childhood memories. What does it have to do with the subject at hand? And what is your stand on this particular argument?

I feel it is %100 cultural not genetic.

Why? So, are some cultures inferior or unable to produce gifted children? What culture are these?

 

[jsizemore]

relevance

The relevance is to the original question of the IQ of a Dominican. The IQ cannot quantify because the average Dominican is not exposed to the material that is used to rate IQ by the enlightened of the world. With no exposure there is no retention of the material. The relevance is from personal experience and not textbook theories. How can some one rate an Asian villager that is illiterate as uneducated when that person has knowledge of herbal medicine that the people with PhDs will spend millions to go out to interview her for her retained knowledge.
As far as my View goes the average Dominican is on par with anyone else in the world. They have learned to survive in a system that has on few occasions been able to thrive. Sometimes it is self-inflicted and sometimes the problems have been imposed by the superior societies we all come from that trained us to think the local Chopas are stupid.
These people are basically still living under the dictatorship way of life. So thier self-interest is served to not be too rich. To be too successful is to be noticed. To have wealth
makes you a target. The tigres and police and anyone else with any power will take down anyone with any thing of value.
The pure effort these people put out to get enough to eat with out looking like they are smart enough to be a threat is a common sense we could not dream about. Those are the skills used by insurgents and freedom fighters. So my view is the average Dominican is quit intelligent. There intelligence is aimed at surviving in a corrupt and exploited world. How many of us in this board have the smarts to survive what the Dominicans do given the same set of resources?


My post is relevant to the original thread.

John

 

[lhtown]

Could it be that education and ability to learn and think could be related? Often I have heard the brain referred to as a "muscle" in the sense that it gets stronger with use. It would seem to me from all of the confusion surrounding this subject that even though they are not synonymous, that there must be some correlation.