What is with dom-yorks and trying to be extra-dominican?

el fino

New member
Jan 14, 2008
48
0
0
Now I actually lived back home for eleven years and i dont feel the need to put 20 flag and stickers on my car,listen to bachata all day,talk loud,BAD,slang filled spanish all day and night and generally act like a greaseball tiguere de patio.

Why do dominicans BORN in the states or left at sixteen and seventeen years old feel the need to be extra proud and over the top with the dominicanisms?

They look so freaking stupid especially in the heights.

I can get the old timers in their 30's and beyond but someone younger than that and has been here for more than 3 years is completley ridicolous.

Those same people will proclaim who is "a dominicano de verdad y quien no lo es" but will be quick to say they dont date dominican men/women,havent been to d.r in six years and have no clue about current events in the country infront of even strangers.

Most of us are married and have kids with puerto ricans anyways.We're so Dominican yet we dont even date eachother anymore.

What is the point?You cant live in two countries at once and we all know dominicans back home dont like those who were raised overseas.

When when will drop this tigueraje culture in new york?deja el barrio en el barrio tamo en neuva york,papa.

I get what your saying here, but to fault just Dominicans on this issue is incorrect. You want to talk about excessive flag waiving and unwarranted Patriotism? Dominicans don?t hold a candle next to Puerto Ricans; most of them can?t speak Spanish and have never been to the island, not even their parents have! And what about the Irish during Saint Patrick?s Day? Who haven?t been Irish since their great-great grandparents got off the boats at Ellis Island. And what about the Italians?
The more far removed a generation is, the more they need to act out to make themselves belong to that said group, and frankly with Dominicans its hasn?t gotten to that type of level that you seem to think it has (We haven?t been here that long)
And from what I have read on your reply post on here your issue is not with the flag waiving and ??Being Dominican?? but with how the Dominican Community is reluctant to assimilate in US and Europe, which is another issue all together.
 

el fino

New member
Jan 14, 2008
48
0
0
For those that don't understand look at it like this. Americans and other nationalities do the same thing when they are not in the US. Sometimes subtly and sometimes not so subtly. I mean Americans in France, and I have seen this, will go to American bars and hang flags and do all these same things. Though like I said, sometimes subtly and sometimes, not so subtly.

You can look at the example of Chinese Dominicans here in the DR or any transplanted cultural group in any foreign country around, its a way to feel connected to something bigger than themselves. It also poses the question of identity. For some, in a new country, they don't feel connected to the culture at large so they try to grab on to what they know and as a defense mechanism become "more proud" of their heritage and culture.

Consider this, the difference in patriotism between Dominicans on the island and those in the US is that why would a Dominican on the island wave a flag? When you are surrounded by your culture there is no need to be tied to it. But for those who live abroad they make that special effort to stay connected to that one thing that has been a constant in their lives: their culture.

How does this translate into what was posted by the OP? Its called a commodification of cultures, where you take small things that best embody a culture and "sell" that. Flags are the quintessential example of that, so why not wave the flags around?

One final perspective is the following, and it deals with the younger generations of Dominicans. I will relate it back to the issue of identity. For many first and second generation Dominicans, and other cultural enclaves there has been this move towards rejecting the overall American anglo-saxon culture becasuse it has A) rejected them and B) it has never been "cool" to be "white." I didn't make the second comment to insult, but anyone who has grown up in an urban environment, even in some urban schools, knows the subtle reference I am making here. (If you read some of the literature regarding the development of children in urban school systems this has been one of the points that social psychologists have pointed to as a reason for the lack luster performance of some students.)

Even in the DR, Dominicans differentiate "gringos" and that puts them into a different category. I mean, when I first got here I was called a "bolsa" just for the simple fact that I was born in the US, i.e I was a silly "gringo." So who wants to be called a "bolsa?" No one, so some, in order to avoid this, become more Dominican.

So how does this translate into "over the top Dominicanism?" Well, youth will reject the home culture because it has never been appealing to be a "gringo" and also because they find themselves in a cultural void, considering that they are now a "cultural hybrid." Many Dominicans born in the US have no way of determining which "group" they can be a part of so they choose the one group which they can easily assimilate too and that means cheering for the DR (or whatever other culture) instead of the home culture.

This example has been refletced, for example, in Europe, and specifically in communities with large Muslim populations. You look at the riots in France last year and this is a reflcteion of this fact and to a degree can also be seen in how first and second generation Muslims in Europe are more "extreme" in their support of their parents culture and more "extreme" in their rejection of the home culture.

In the end you must realize that all people will celebrate their cultures in different ways. Some Dominicans will wave flags and play music and etc etc etc and some Dominicans will quietly walk by you down the street and you would never know they were Dominicans. Remember that just because you are LOUD doesn't make you PROUD and some of the PROUDEST Dominicans aren't the LOUDEST.

Just a perspective...



Mr. Lu

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this issue, Much Respect Mr. Lu
 

RAMSES13

New member
Jul 16, 2007
17
0
0
perhaps the dominicans in NY who are patriotic feel that there is more to life then NY and therefore boast of their nationality as a way of saying that NY is not the be all end all.

many immigrants / people who live between two worlds, search for something to ground them.

YOUR CORRECT! ITS ABOUT DOMINICAN PRIDE. I WAS BORN HERE IN THE US BUT MY PARENTS BROUGHT ME UP WITH THE DOMINICAN DREAM NOT THE AMERICAN THERES MORE IN THE WORLD EVERYTHING IS NOT MIAMI CALI. SIGAN REPRESENTANDO FAMILIA!
 

EddyT644

New member
Apr 18, 2008
12
0
0
Now I actually lived back home for eleven years and i dont feel the need to put 20 flag and stickers on my car,listen to bachata all day,talk loud,BAD,slang filled spanish all day and night and generally act like a greaseball tiguere de patio.

Why do dominicans BORN in the states or left at sixteen and seventeen years old feel the need to be extra proud and over the top with the dominicanisms?

They look so freaking stupid especially in the heights.

I can get the old timers in their 30's and beyond but someone younger than that and has been here for more than 3 years is completley ridicolous.

Those same people will proclaim who is "a dominicano de verdad y quien no lo es" but will be quick to say they dont date dominican men/women,havent been to d.r in six years and have no clue about current events in the country infront of even strangers.

Most of us are married and have kids with puerto ricans anyways.We're so Dominican yet we dont even date eachother anymore.

What is the point?You cant live in two countries at once and we all know dominicans back home dont like those who were raised overseas.

When when will drop this tigueraje culture in new york?deja el barrio en el barrio tamo en neuva york,papa.

I guess i can say feel your "pain" but so what. Tengo mucho orgullo y que?
 

Musicqueen

Miami Nice!
Jan 31, 2002
2,252
4
0
What I don't get...'cause even my husband did it as soon as he stepped off the plane a year 1/2 ago...is this...

If you are waiting half your life to be able to come to live in the good ol' USA...why the hell do you buy and show off EVERYTHING DOMINICAN?

MOST don't even make an effort to assimilate the culture here...NEVER learn English...at least properly...they speak 'ghetto English' trying to imitate the Black community from dressing like them to talking like them...and are CONSTANTLY braggin about going back home...

If you miss home so much, go back and stay there!

Talking from an immigrant point of view...I've been here for almost 40 years... :(
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
5,897
550
113
Most immigrants will tell you that they are economic refugees, that they would not leave their country if it weren't for the financial opportunities available to them here in the US.

The dominicans definitely are more social and know how to have more fun than we do, but then again that type of fun in the backdrop of such glaring poverty is the reason they want to leave.

And once they are here they spend a lot of time longing for a shangri-la existence back home that never was.

Don't be too harsh on them, they are not the only immigrant groups that do this.
 

Ricardo900

Silver
Jul 12, 2004
3,269
37
48
MOST don't even make an effort to assimilate the culture here...NEVER learn English...at least properly...they speak 'ghetto English' trying to imitate the Black community from dressing like them to talking like them...and are CONSTANTLY braggin about going back home...

It's because many migrating dominicans are from poor areas in their country with little or no education, they don't know any better. And the "Black" community they are trying to emulate is not the "Black" community I know about, because my peers are well educated, speak correct english and live in nice homes, nothing ghetto about them. It makes sense when a Dominican from a ghetto area of the DR will be attracted to a ghetto area of the US. "Like Two Peas in a Pod"

Now saying that, I know few Dominican business people who frequent the US and they are nothing like the Dominicans you described above, very well mannered. It's because they are from very good cultures in the DR, so they want the same where ever they travel, no loud music, talking or other chopo behaviour.
 

WapoWapo

New member
Jan 11, 2008
1
0
0
It's because many migrating dominicans are from poor areas in their country with little or no education, they don't know any better. And the "Black" community they are trying to emulate is not the "Black" community I know about, because my peers are well educated, speak correct english and live in nice homes, nothing ghetto about them. It makes sense when a Dominican from a ghetto area of the DR will be attracted to a ghetto area of the US. "Like Two Peas in a Pod"

Now saying that, I know few Dominican business people who frequent the US and they are nothing like the Dominicans you described above, very well mannered. It's because they are from very good cultures in the DR, so they want the same where ever they travel, no loud music, talking or other chopo behaviour.

Thank you for clearing that up. I hate when people equate "black culture" with speaking poor English, being poor, listening to rap music, etc. When a Dominican is successful, then who are they emulating? A White American? A white person from Spain? Are they a sellout?
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
True

Most immigrants will tell you that they are economic refugees, that they would not leave their country if it weren't for the financial opportunities available to them here in the US.

The dominicans definitely are more social and know how to have more fun than we do, but then again that type of fun in the backdrop of such glaring poverty is the reason they want to leave.

And once they are here they spend a lot of time longing for a shangri-la existence back home that never was.

Don't be too harsh on them, they are not the only immigrant groups that do this.


Basically sums that up...
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
yes

It's because many migrating dominicans are from poor areas in their country with little or no education, they don't know any better. And the "Black" community they are trying to emulate is not the "Black" community I know about, because my peers are well educated, speak correct english and live in nice homes, nothing ghetto about them. It makes sense when a Dominican from a ghetto area of the DR will be attracted to a ghetto area of the US. "Like Two Peas in a Pod"

Now saying that, I know few Dominican business people who frequent the US and they are nothing like the Dominicans you described above, very well mannered. It's because they are from very good cultures in the DR, so they want the same where ever they travel, no loud music, talking or other chopo behaviour.


Thanks for pointing that out. When did Black = not educated? It's as if by trying to dispel one rumor or stereotype we throw another group into that mix.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
Good point

Thank you for clearing that up. I hate when people equate "black culture" with speaking poor English, being poor, listening to rap music, etc. When a Dominican is successful, then who are they emulating? A White American? A white person from Spain? Are they a sellout?

That's a great point! I have a few opinions on this, partly from personal experience, but I'd like to hear what people have to say in this regard. I know successful blacks are labeled sell out, but what about Dominicans?



Mr. Lu
 

gemenilaidback

New member
Oct 22, 2003
48
0
0
Having lived in North Carolina getting my masters and being a second generation Dominican I get the opportunity of being exposed to being around African Americans ,Whites and Asians and Latinos... I get called a sell out but now adays its more like being bourgeoisie which is the new sell out. People like ,Will Smith, Oprah, Obama, Ricky Martin, Monchy y Alexandra, Jay Z & Beyonce, Caretta Scott King, Cathy Hughes (CEO), Robert Johnson (CEO), Stanley O Neal ( former CEO),Pharell, Quincy Jones, are the type of people others will call sellouts and these people are mostly educated , independently wealthy,mentioned in Forbes,...and people labeling them sellouts has nothing to do with people thinking they are trying to acting white. In the USA anything that does not assimilate to the street image (which is now mainstream popular culture) are considered by many to be sellouts. People don't just equate being educated with being white anymore, especially since in the US Asians had the highest level of education, success in independent businesses. There are many Black ,Latino and Asian successful educated,classy people from all backgrounds now. I know this because I have worked with these people when I was a financial analyst and most of these people with degrees who were young people were minorities. In fact many young whites that I worked with were at the same jobs and did not obtain their Undergraduate degrees including one of my best friends who comes from a middle class background. Education in general in the USA is not put on the pedestal that is once was. In my family it was a pillar of excellence but when you have CNN and Forbes telling you the richest man (Bill Gates) dropped out of school, entertainers (some of them) didn't finish school, and you too can be a star by getting on America's top Idol or Model, many people say what is the use. It is a sad but normal part of growing up in the states now and a large majority of the 15-25 yr old's don't value education of ANY race. the ghetto culture has spread to middle America and is thriving because we are in a recession due to the fiscal decisions of our government, high interest, a home mortgage crisis, and society not divesting in education.People see you as being "fake", "bourgeoisie ", "preppy", "Yuppy like"...when you are different than the common young person these days. Also when economic times are hard msot young people cling to race,nationality, and superficial status (cars,chains,girls) to suffice for low self esteem sue to not knowing how to correct their lives or where their lives are going. The reason is there are all kinds of "ghetto" people in the States and what many would call chopo are white kids (who call themselves the n word) with doo rags, gold teeth,gold chains, loud music and grotesque, spinning wheeled cars. I dont understand how people automatically equate this with being ghetto and black and Latino automatically, when they need to understand that ghetto-ness is engulfing everything due to the economy. Depending on how you are dressed, with me being preppy most "ghetto" blacks would not speak to me nor will the whites who get along with them (the ghetto types also get along with redneck country hillbillies) and the country Latino types only speak to their won class from their won country. In fact most Dominicans I know and respect don't wave flags, use excessive dominicanismo slang, have successful businesses, have kids in Universities like Duke and NCSU (they aren't all light skin either), and dress pretty conservatively.
Although alot of Dominicans that do dress like they would in a urban decaying enviroment do consider us sellouts cause we don't have the flag on all of our attire, cars, pens and shoes. Although I ignore all of them Black, White, or Latino because that is what people do when they have low self esteem when they are poor.Also alot of them are under 25 and when your young people do stupid things I don't think I was headed for excellence by appearance when I was 22 either.
By the way I live in a neighborhood where 45% are black (many white collared) professionals who all OWN houses,35% are white (some are professional some are blue collar),and 20% are Latino. I am sure if I were to travel down town to the poor section of town, I could find a member of every race....who was poor except maybe Asian. I will be honest I have never seen an Asian begging for change or dressed in such a "hood" manner then again I am not from the West Coast I heard many there are in gangs and are very rugged (Flying Dragons,Tongs, etc).
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
3,750
183
63
Having lived in North Carolina getting my masters and being a second generation Dominican I get the opportunity of being exposed to being around African Americans ,Whites and Asians and Latinos... I get called a sell out but now adays its more like being bourgeoisie which is the new sell out. People like ,Will Smith, Oprah, Obama, Ricky Martin, Monchy y Alexandra, Jay Z & Beyonce, Caretta Scott King, Cathy Hughes (CEO), Robert Johnson (CEO), Stanley O Neal ( former CEO),Pharell, Quincy Jones, are the type of people others will call sellouts and these people are mostly educated , independently wealthy,mentioned in Forbes,...and people labeling them sellouts has nothing to do with people thinking they are trying to acting white. In the USA anything that does not assimilate to the street image (which is now mainstream popular culture) are considered by many to be sellouts. People don't just equate being educated with being white anymore, especially since in the US Asians had the highest level of education, success in independent businesses. There are many Black ,Latino and Asian successful educated,classy people from all backgrounds now. I know this because I have worked with these people when I was a financial analyst and most of these people with degrees who were young people were minorities. In fact many young whites that I worked with were at the same jobs and did not obtain their Undergraduate degrees including one of my best friends who comes from a middle class background. Education in general in the USA is not put on the pedestal that is once was. In my family it was a pillar of excellence but when you have CNN and Forbes telling you the richest man (Bill Gates) dropped out of school, entertainers (some of them) didn't finish school, and you too can be a star by getting on America's top Idol or Model, many people say what is the use. It is a sad but normal part of growing up in the states now and a large majority of the 15-25 yr old's don't value education of ANY race. the ghetto culture has spread to middle America and is thriving because we are in a recession due to the fiscal decisions of our government, high interest, a home mortgage crisis, and society not divesting in education.People see you as being "fake", "bourgeoisie ", "preppy", "Yuppy like"...when you are different than the common young person these days. Also when economic times are hard msot young people cling to race,nationality, and superficial status (cars,chains,girls) to suffice for low self esteem sue to not knowing how to correct their lives or where their lives are going. The reason is there are all kinds of "ghetto" people in the States and what many would call chopo are white kids (who call themselves the n word) with doo rags, gold teeth,gold chains, loud music and grotesque, spinning wheeled cars. I dont understand how people automatically equate this with being ghetto and black and Latino automatically, when they need to understand that ghetto-ness is engulfing everything due to the economy. Depending on how you are dressed, with me being preppy most "ghetto" blacks would not speak to me nor will the whites who get along with them (the ghetto types also get along with redneck country hillbillies) and the country Latino types only speak to their won class from their won country. In fact most Dominicans I know and respect don't wave flags, use excessive dominicanismo slang, have successful businesses, have kids in Universities like Duke and NCSU (they aren't all light skin either), and dress pretty conservatively.
Although alot of Dominicans that do dress like they would in a urban decaying enviroment do consider us sellouts cause we don't have the flag on all of our attire, cars, pens and shoes. Although I ignore all of them Black, White, or Latino because that is what people do when they have low self esteem when they are poor.Also alot of them are under 25 and when your young people do stupid things I don't think I was headed for excellence by appearance when I was 22 either.
By the way I live in a neighborhood where 45% are black (many white collared) professionals who all OWN houses,35% are white (some are professional some are blue collar),and 20% are Latino. I am sure if I were to travel down town to the poor section of town, I could find a member of every race....who was poor except maybe Asian. I will be honest I have never seen an Asian begging for change or dressed in such a "hood" manner then again I am not from the West Coast I heard many there are in gangs and are very rugged (Flying Dragons,Tongs, etc).

I agree with you. I think that it is a mindset and some poeple are stuck in it. It is sad as I am in NYC working for the summer and just now getting to meet alot of my family that I have never seen (I was born here but my mom moved when I was 9).
I have a cousin who has a young son for whom she buys pants and shirts twice his size, and I just don't understand it. My 5 year old son HATES for his pants not to fit correctly...how can a child have fun and play like that?
Well, anyway, being from North Carolina I had a different perception of Dominicans and when I got here to NYC, I was surely surprised.
The only way that I could tell the Dominicans from the inner-city (I will not say ghetto) African Americans are the language and the music and occasionally of course, the hair.
Most of the guys are dressed in this 50 Cent, T-Pain sort of way. I have not seen much in the way of too many flags or anything like that, except a little in Washington Heights but that is to be expected.
Someone once told me that I was stupid to move to the DR, that I can just move to Washington Heights and not take my kids out of the country...I could not imagine ever living there, even though I love Dominicans.
I saw a TV show on one of the spanish channels here about Dominicans losing their way, it showed alot of footage at a reggaeton concert and it was disgusting to watch, to say the least (and I LOVE reggaeton), the guy just kept saying in Spanish "look at our children, look at what our children are doing".
Anyway, I know this thread was about flags, stickers, and other obnoxious materials but I had to just respond to your comment.
Also, what nags me is not so much the Dominican slang because I have fallen into that trap also...but the quick movement from english to spanish which my patient's tend to do once they find out that I speak spanish, something sort of like "Las contracciones started at like...No se...like 5am, and I woke up pero con mucho pain"
WHAT THE ???
SHALENA
 

solamentetu

New member
Oct 21, 2004
23
0
0
That's a great point! I have a few opinions on this, partly from personal experience, but I'd like to hear what people have to say in this regard. I know successful blacks are labeled sell out, but what about Dominicans?



Mr. Lu

As a Dominican-American college student who speaks proper English, does well in school, has secured good internships, I can say that while I may not be directly called a "sell-out," I have TOO OFTEN been called "whitey." I have "Dom-york" third and fourth-generation American cousins who will wear sneakers with flags, and will play the loudest bachata, just to prove that they are Dominican. They will often tell me I "talk white," I "dress white" and I "act white." My parents, my siblings, and I live in a mixed-race middle-class neighborhood and we often get criticized for living here. My father's family is embarking on their fourth/fifth generation in the states, but since my mother is a first-generation American, her siblings constantly question why we chose to live here and not in Washington Heights, like they all have. It's not that they are fearful of success/think Dominicans shouldn't be successful; it's just that they would prefer that Dominicans who were successful would stick around to help poor/unsuccessful Dominicans. When some Dom-yorks find out I am in college for instance, they encourage me to pursue a law degree to work on immigration reform. It's not that anybody is a sell-out; it's just that sometimes people feel like successful Dominicans "forget their roots."
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
5,897
550
113
We as latinos need to stop equating "keeping it real" with keeping it real stupid and ignorant.

We don't don't need to emulate white people in style of dress and diction to come across as successful.

One thing that I hate about hip-hop and those who buy into all the stereotypes is that it has hijacked our cultural identity and cheapened it to the point where people immediately equate latino with "ghetto".

And why is it so offensive and insulting to some fool standing on the corner if someone who he has nothing more in common with aside from nationality decides to do something with his life other than be a piece of shyte? These are the types that are constantly accusing someone of selling out or acting white.

As a side note to all the hip-hop fans out there who feel the need to get offended by everything I say about this topic-please spare me the fan mail this time around. I already know where you stand on this issue and I really don't care.
 

ElvisNYC

New member
Jan 27, 2006
511
22
0
We as latinos need to stop equating "keeping it real" with keeping it real stupid and ignorant.

We don't don't need to emulate white people in style of dress and diction to come across as successful.

One thing that I hate about hip-hop and those who buy into all the stereotypes is that it has hijacked our cultural identity and cheapened it to the point where people immediately equate latino with "ghetto".

And why is it so offensive and insulting to some fool standing on the corner if someone who he has nothing more in common with aside from nationality decides to do something with his life other than be a piece of shyte? These are the types that are constantly accusing someone of selling out or acting white.

As a side note to all the hip-hop fans out there who feel the need to get offended by everything I say about this topic-please spare me the fan mail this time around. I already know where you stand on this issue and I really don't care.

Berzin,

Which kind of people think that latino equates to ghetto ?
 

ElvisNYC

New member
Jan 27, 2006
511
22
0
As a Dominican-American college student who speaks proper English, does well in school, has secured good internships, I can say that while I may not be directly called a "sell-out," I have TOO OFTEN been called "whitey." I have "Dom-york" third and fourth-generation American cousins who will wear sneakers with flags, and will play the loudest bachata, just to prove that they are Dominican. They will often tell me I "talk white," I "dress white" and I "act white." My parents, my siblings, and I live in a mixed-race middle-class neighborhood and we often get criticized for living here. My father's family is embarking on their fourth/fifth generation in the states, but since my mother is a first-generation American, her siblings constantly question why we chose to live here and not in Washington Heights, like they all have. It's not that they are fearful of success/think Dominicans shouldn't be successful; it's just that they would prefer that Dominicans who were successful would stick around to help poor/unsuccessful Dominicans. When some Dom-yorks find out I am in college for instance, they encourage me to pursue a law degree to work on immigration reform. It's not that anybody is a sell-out; it's just that sometimes people feel like successful Dominicans "forget their roots."

Why do you worry about what campesinos say ?? :)
 

RGVgal

Bronze
May 26, 2008
1,314
38
0
Also, what nags me is not so much the Dominican slang because I have fallen into that trap also...but the quick movement from english to spanish which my patient's tend to do once they find out that I speak spanish, something sort of like "Las contracciones started at like...No se...like 5am, and I woke up pero con mucho pain"
WHAT THE ???
SHALENA

This really ****es me off. These folks can't speak English or Spanish correctly and they sound so ignorant.

And I bet a lot of those moms that you are delivering are having babies out of wedlock and they are on medicaid and welfare.

I really never go to Washington heights because it ****es me off to see how a lot (Not ALL) of the Dominicans there behave like barrio trash.