When Was 'S' removed from the Dominican alphabet?

[cjp2010]

This is somewhat serious as I am asking the question, but it definitely belongs in the clown bin.

For example, ask a local to count to 10 and you get - uno, do, tre, cuatro, cinco, sei, siete, ocho, nueve, diez.

If a word ends in S the S is not anunciated. For 10, which is actually a z you usually get the short s sound but that I can deal with.

I did not notice this in Spain, Mexico or Costa Rica. Maybe it did happen and I just didn't notice because I wasn't learning Spanish so much when I was there and didn't spend as much time in those places.

I don't think it has anything to do with education. My niece-in-law does it incorrectly, but her three year old daughter does it correctly. Her daughter must have learned it correctly somehow. At some point in life it just stops getting anunciated?

So I ask my wife and she basically says it is not important, it is the same thing. Not a real explanation.

And I tell her it is not the same thing, especially to someone that doesn't know the language. It doesn't bother me now because I speak Spanish pretty good, but it did bother me when I was trying to learn. If you said go to the kitchen and get me "tre naranja" I wouldn't have known you meant three oranges. I'd be wondering what the heck is a "tre naranja".

Sure, I don't say all the English words right all the time. But I absolutely do if I'm in a formal setting or if I'm trying to teach the language to someone.

This is different from someone saying "fren". That is someone learning our language (for those of us who speak English first) and maybe heard it wrong the first time or was taught wrong. Now they may know it is wrong but by habit they still say it wrong. I have some Spanish things I say wrong all the time becuase I learned them wrong and it is my habit. As soon as the words leave my mouth I know it is wrong. It would be insulting for someone to talk back to me the same way and it is insulting to say "fren" to a local. But if you know them and they are a friend you may try to correct them in case they actually don't know they are saying it wrong. But you should only do that one time and only with a friend.

So what's really up with the S?

 

[Bronxboy]

Belongs in Spanish 101 Forum.

 

[windeguy]

The local "country" accent leaves out the "S's", 'ta bien?

 

[Koreano]

How about those in Cibao adding "i". When I listen to people here talks I sometimes go WTF is capitai? Sometimes I thought they are just trying to make that much difficult for me to learn

 

[PeterInBrat]

All kinds of variations in Dominican Spanish. Sometime a "B" can sound more like a "W" at the beginning of a word. Just be glad you're not dealing with the silly Castilian lisp.

 

[Chirimoya]

Omitting the S is common in the Spanish spoken in the Caribbean, parts of Central America and Southern Spain.

 

[tee]

So what? Take a look at the English language...the English language originates from, duh, you guessed it, ENGLAND. English is the first language in too many countries to mention and all of those countries have a different way of speaking English...you don't speak American, you don't speak Canadian, you don't speak Australian, you speak English...over the years the language has been alterred slightly and this is exactly the same as Dominican Spanish

 

[Luperon]

"So I ask my wife and she basically says it is not important, it is the same thing. Not a real explanation."


It is very annoying that Dominicans dont speak Spanish and even more annoying that they dont care. Whats even MORE annoying is the fact that a Dominican will rarely give you a direct answer to a direct question. Try a survey, ask ten Dominicans simple questions, you will get every stupid tangent as an answer. But after a while gringos will assimilate and all will be good. I practice my bad Spanish and answer avoidance on a regular basis. Dominicanos, gotta love em.

 

[Major448]

So what? Take a look at the English language...the English language originates from, duh, you guessed it, ENGLAND. English is the first language in too many countries to mention and all of those countries have a different way of speaking English...you don't speak American, you don't speak Canadian, you don't speak Australian, you speak English...over the years the language has been alterred slightly and this is exactly the same as Dominican Spanish

True! And even within countries, there are regional variations. For example, this guy is speaking American English (but with a Louisiana Cajun accent.) American English (native) speakers just might have no problem understanding him. :laugh: :laugh:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ueUjcbIyqXA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[JMB773]

When was "ESE" removed from the Dominican( Spanish) alphabet. "S" is the ENGLISH form of the letter.

When a child in DR says " la ecuela" instead of la escuela do you or do you not understand what they mean. Why is the "S" so important if you understand fully what they are saying.

You said you lived in DR for somethime so you should be used to it by now.

 

[Mariot]

This is somewhat serious as I am asking the question, but it definitely belongs in the clown bin.

For example, ask a local to count to 10 and you get - uno, do, tre, cuatro, cinco, sei, siete, ocho, nueve, diez.

If a word ends in S the S is not anunciated. For 10, which is actually a z you usually get the short s sound but that I can deal with.

I did not notice this in Spain, Mexico or Costa Rica. Maybe it did happen and I just didn't notice because I wasn't learning Spanish so much when I was there and didn't spend as much time in those places.

I don't think it has anything to do with education. My niece-in-law does it incorrectly, but her three year old daughter does it correctly. Her daughter must have learned it correctly somehow. At some point in life it just stops getting anunciated?

So I ask my wife and she basically says it is not important, it is the same thing. Not a real explanation.

And I tell her it is not the same thing, especially to someone that doesn't know the language. It doesn't bother me now because I speak Spanish pretty good, but it did bother me when I was trying to learn. If you said go to the kitchen and get me "tre naranja" I wouldn't have known you meant three oranges. I'd be wondering what the heck is a "tre naranja".

Sure, I don't say all the English words right all the time. But I absolutely do if I'm in a formal setting or if I'm trying to teach the language to someone.

This is different from someone saying "fren". That is someone learning our language (for those of us who speak English first) and maybe heard it wrong the first time or was taught wrong. Now they may know it is wrong but by habit they still say it wrong. I have some Spanish things I say wrong all the time becuase I learned them wrong and it is my habit. As soon as the words leave my mouth I know it is wrong. It would be insulting for someone to talk back to me the same way and it is insulting to say "fren" to a local. But if you know them and they are a friend you may try to correct them in case they actually don't know they are saying it wrong. But you should only do that one time and only with a friend.

So what's really up with the S?

If you go to Sevilla you will notice that Spaniards there speak similar. Sevilla was the point of departure for the conquistadores so you can probably trace Dominican Spanish back to the way they speak in Andalusia. It's a local variety of Spanish and should be accepted as such. Sure, Mexicans pronounce the s but they have other quirks and don't even get me started on Argentinians. Australians and Canadians and Americans speak differently then the British (and even they have countless local varieties, probably worse than any other place in the world), still you wouldn't say that the way Americans speak is wrong.

 

[Mariot]

Found this on Wikipedia: Dominican Spanish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So indeed there are Spaniards who speak similar. I guess your niece-in-law speaks carefully to her daughter but not to other adults, maybe because she wants her to be able to switch when she needs to, or because she's speaking slowly to her so she understands.

 

[jrhartley]

i dont think there are any naranjas here

 

[Major448]

Someone actually did a comparison with Spanish speakers in the Canary Islands ......

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U-wqPc8lFh4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[cjp2010]

Good answers. There is a reason I put this in the clown bin. I am definitely used to it now and totally understand everything that is spoken, but seriously it did throw me for a loop when I was first learning. I also appreciate the remarks, which are very true, about the English language and it's variations. JMB773 - whether it is Spanish or English the letter is still written 'S'. There is no letter that is written 'ESE' in the alphabet. That is how you pronounce the letter. I guess you could say the English pronunciation would actually be 'ES'.

 

[Lothario666]

When a child in DR says " la ecuela" instead of la escuela do you or do you not understand what they mean. Why is the "S" so important if you understand fully what they are saying.

Attitudes like that is why the D.R. is so screwed up, no one cares if you do it right or not! Why stop for a red light if you can run it!



"R"

 

[Bronxboy]

Puerto Ricans skip the "R" all the time or make sound like "L".

hahahahahaha

 

[pollogringo]

Someone actually did a comparison with Spanish speakers in the Canary Islands ......

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U-wqPc8lFh4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

This is the definitive answer. Props, Major.

 

[Aguaita29]

So I ask my wife and she basically says it is not important, it is the same thing. Not a real explanation.

And I tell her it is not the same thing, especially to someone that doesn't know the language. It doesn't bother me now because I speak Spanish pretty good, but it did bother me when I was trying to learn. If you said go to the kitchen and get me "tre naranja" I wouldn't have known you meant three oranges. I'd be wondering what the heck is a "tre naranja".

Sure, I don't say all the English words right all the time. But I absolutely do if I'm in a formal setting or if I'm trying to teach the language to someone.

So what's really up with the S?

If you want to try to understand why this happens, think about words and letters in your own language that most native speakers tend to swallow. I guarantee you that if you ask other native speakers, you'll see that plenty of them won`t have a real explanation of why they do that.

If you ever have the chance to teach English you`ll see that locals tend to have similar questions about native speakers and why they do certain things, for example: Why do Americans swallow the are in "how are you doing?" or Why don?t they pronounce the t in certain words?

People don?t get it till you tell them that we do the same thing in Spanish: Instead of "Como tu estas?" We say "Como tu ta?"

By the way, I once took a TEFL class in the U.S. Most of the people there were Americans, and I was very surprised about the kind of questions they asked; Most common ones were things related to the use how much and how many, any and some, and how to tell if a noun was countable or uncountable .
I was surprised because that`s all basic grammar and most of them were native speakers. By the way, the teacher was Mexican!

 

[pollogringo]

By the way, I once took a TEFL class in the U.S. Most of the people there were Americans, and I was very surprised about the kind of questions they asked; Most common ones were things related to the use how much and how many, any and some, and how to tell if a noun was countable or uncountable .
I was surprised because that`s all basic grammar and most of them were native speakers. By the way, the teacher was Mexican!

I recall you saying that you've never lived abroad.